You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Topic
November 24 2024 4.23am

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 65 of 2586 < 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 >

Topic Locked

Hoof Hearted 03 May 16 8.59am

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

If you stop to think about it for a moment, you say we are giving a school to a lesser country....which in itself is derogatory and negative.


You obviously didn't "stop to think" when you labelled all of the Lincolnshire folk complaining of over crowding due to immigrants as "lazy whinging scroungers who should get off their fat arses and go to work" (or used words very similar in derogatory and negative tone)

You blandly assumed that they were unemployed, and claiming benefits - without any evidence of the employment status of these people who may well be working, retired and or disabled as well as though who might be unemployed... but all have the right to voice their concerns, even the unemployed who might have secured a job in pre Blair Britain.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post
JohnyBoy Flag 03 May 16 9.29am Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted


You obviously didn't "stop to think" when you labelled all of the Lincolnshire folk complaining of over crowding due to immigrants as "lazy whinging scroungers who should get off their fat arses and go to work" (or used words very similar in derogatory and negative tone)

You blandly assumed that they were unemployed, and claiming benefits - without any evidence of the employment status of these people who may well be working, retired and or disabled as well as though who might be unemployed... but all have the right to voice their concerns, even the unemployed who might have secured a job in pre Blair Britain.

I aknowledege that i may have generalised although it was in the context of people saying their lives were being 'ruined' by new polish delis and betting offices opening but i thought i said this in a previous post when you told me how terribly upset it made you...you sensitive old thing you...

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
JohnyBoy Flag 03 May 16 9.33am Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by johnfirewall

You're voting 'In' for the benefits of have having as many workers as possible are you?

Edited by johnfirewall (03 May 2016 9.09am)

There are many benefits to voting in, whereas voting to leave just seems irrational on almost every level. I do respect that we all have d8fferent views though

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
Hoof Hearted 03 May 16 10.59am

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

I aknowledege that i may have generalised although it was in the context of people saying their lives were being 'ruined' by new polish delis and betting offices opening but i thought i said this in a previous post when you told me how terribly upset it made you...you sensitive old thing you...

Now you're rewriting history...again.

I said I was disappointed with some of your responses, when you thought I might have been offended by them, which I wasn't.

I took this opportunity to highlight your hypocrisy by accusing another poster of being derogatory and negative when you were guilty of that yourself.

It's better for debate if we don't use terms like racist nazi or similar terms to describe posters who are merely giving opinions or describing experiences they have had in the main. For example I could write an essay about having an illegal traveller/gipsy camp just 400 yards from my front door (sited next to a primary school and in the picturesque Frome Vale) but you would probably accuse me of being racist if I did, like Bristol City council tried to do when I led a local campaign to stop the council making it legal and permanent!

State your facts and point out anomalies by all means Johnny, but random accusations and personal remarks are irrelevant to most adult debates.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post
JohnyBoy Flag 03 May 16 11.19am Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

Now you're rewriting history...again.

I said I was disappointed with some of your responses, when you thought I might have been offended by them, which I wasn't.

I took this opportunity to highlight your hypocrisy by accusing another poster of being derogatory and negative when you were guilty of that yourself.

It's better for debate if we don't use terms like racist nazi or similar terms to describe posters who are merely giving opinions or describing experiences they have had in the main. For example I could write an essay about having an illegal traveller/gipsy camp just 400 yards from my front door (sited next to a primary school and in the picturesque Frome Vale) but you would probably accuse me of being racist if I did, like Bristol City council tried to do when I led a local campaign to stop the council making it legal and permanent!

State your facts and point out anomalies by all means Johnny, but random accusations and personal remarks are irrelevant to most adult debates.


I do agree with you last paragraph wholeheartedly Hoof, and I was likening the Daily Mail article as similar to the way Goebells twisted Nazi propaganda to build up resentment against an 'underclass' of people. In no way did I call the poster this, indeed I acknowledged to him that we all have different opinions although there are many ways to view this inflammatory article.
But excuse me if I call you out again but do you not think that when you have sat there with musketeer abandon putting down immigrants (who incidentally have nothing to do with the EU debate) like the whole pakistani community near you for not playing British games and say they 'they' don't integrate is making a bit of a generalisation. I only know two pakistani people (both British born and bred) and they love footie (admittedly Man U) and are fanatical about cricket. As when the Lincolnshire Eagle claimed what you said about people in Boston Lincs being untrue, pardon me for thinking that it could be you too who is re-writing history? I do ofcourse apologise if I have but I don't see it myself.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
Hoof Hearted 03 May 16 12.09pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy


I do agree with you last paragraph wholeheartedly Hoof, and I was likening the Daily Mail article as similar to the way Goebells twisted Nazi propaganda to build up resentment against an 'underclass' of people. In no way did I call the poster this, indeed I acknowledged to him that we all have different opinions although there are many ways to view this inflammatory article.
But excuse me if I call you out again but do you not think that when you have sat there with musketeer abandon putting down immigrants (who incidentally have nothing to do with the EU debate) like the whole pakistani community near you for not playing British games and say they 'they' don't integrate is making a bit of a generalisation. I only know two pakistani people (both British born and bred) and they love footie (admittedly Man U) and are fanatical about cricket. As when the Lincolnshire Eagle claimed what you said about people in Boston Lincs being untrue, pardon me for thinking that it could be you too who is re-writing history? I do ofcourse apologise if I have but I don't see it myself.

I can only speak as I find Johnny.

My experience of the pakistani community around here is not a generalisation.

I was on the committee of Stapleton FC , a local footy team that plays in the park behind my house. Despite many attempts to recruit local boys and girls to join our team, none have come forward from that sector, whereas we have had success with all other groups.

Fair enough you might say, but we then had to deal with a complaint from them about our team "commandeering" the park on Saturday afternoons, when we are playing, even though we encourage anyone to support us and join us after in the community club. Out of spite they then tried to book the whole of the park during the summer for their own exclusive use during some religious festival they had (Ramadan?) and when that was refused, held it anyway and were quite hostile to dog walkers, ramblers and mothers/children entering the park that day if they weren't pakistani.

Does relaying my experience of dealing with them and finding them to be insular and disruptive make me racist?

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post
JohnyBoy Flag 03 May 16 12.21pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I can only speak as I find Johnny.

My experience of the pakistani community around here is not a generalisation.

I was on the committee of Stapleton FC , a local footy team that plays in the park behind my house. Despite many attempts to recruit local boys and girls to join our team, none have come forward from that sector, whereas we have had success with all other groups.

Fair enough you might say, but we then had to deal with a complaint from them about our team "commandeering" the park on Saturday afternoons, when we are playing, even though we encourage anyone to support us and join us after in the community club. Out of spite they then tried to book the whole of the park during the summer for their own exclusive use during some religious festival they had (Ramadan?) and when that was refused, held it anyway and were quite hostile to dog walkers, ramblers and mothers/children entering the park that day if they weren't pakistani.

Does relaying my experience of dealing with them and finding them to be insular and disruptive make me racist?

No indeed Hoof that doesn't make you a racist and on this occasion I have some sympathy - some people (nb not just people from the pakistani community) can be deliberately unsociable and indeed spiteful - and you are right to be critical - although generalisations can be misleading. I still don't think though, we should wreck the British economy, the prosperity of the British household or put millions out of work to solve this type of spat.

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 03 May 16 12.34pm

Ultimately, the Referendum is futile, because we're arguing over whether the UK remains in or leaves the EU, rather than what we want to come out of remaining or leaving the EU.

The reality I suspect is that if we leave, nothing will change, and it will be business pretty much as usual, with government pretty much remaining more or less in the EU under a different name. And if we remain, the EU will remain largely unchanged.

After all if the Conservative leave the EU, will they really change a migration policy that suits government revenue generation and corporate profits; even if its detrimental to British citizens interests? I doubt it.

Either way, it'll be more of the same, and like the Voting referendum, we've been sold a 'status quo' choice wrapped up as 'more of the same under a different name' or 'more of the same'.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert Alert a moderator to this post
JohnyBoy Flag 03 May 16 12.41pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Ultimately, the Referendum is futile, because we're arguing over whether the UK remains in or leaves the EU, rather than what we want to come out of remaining or leaving the EU.

The reality I suspect is that if we leave, nothing will change, and it will be business pretty much as usual, with government pretty much remaining more or less in the EU under a different name. And if we remain, the EU will remain largely unchanged.

After all if the Conservative leave the EU, will they really change a migration policy that suits government revenue generation and corporate profits; even if its detrimental to British citizens interests? I doubt it.

Either way, it'll be more of the same, and like the Voting referendum, we've been sold a 'status quo' choice wrapped up as 'more of the same under a different name' or 'more of the same'.

Philosophically Jamie I am inclined to agree with this, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for a better Europe if we can remain. and then focus on domestic UK policy to improve the lives of the working man and woman e.g through tax, living wage and outstanding public services (that we can afford). Politics can sometimes appear futile but its is our only hope

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
dannyh Flag wherever I lay my hat....... 03 May 16 3.58pm Send a Private Message to dannyh Add dannyh as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

Philosophically Jamie I am inclined to agree with this, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't fight for a better Europe if we can remain. and then focus on domestic UK policy to improve the lives of the working man and woman e.g through tax, living wage and outstanding public services (that we can afford). Politics can sometimes appear futile but its is our only hope

Would that not be easier if we were in control of our own destiny and not tied to the EU member states approval before we can even begin to negotiate a trade deal.

Somehow Turkey or Romania having a say in what deals we make and with whom we make them, seems well, wrong really.

I pick those those two countries as budding EU members in the waiting but you get my point.

 


"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
Stuk Flag Top half 03 May 16 4.17pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

If you stop to think about it for a moment, you say we are giving a school to a lesser country....which in itself is derogatory and negative. So how much does this school cost to run each year, say 500k for a smallish school. Where is the money spent. About 85-90% goes on wages to teaching staff, administrators, pensions, maintenance (plumbers, sparx etc) and 10-15% for the kids (whose parents may well be tax contributors) goes on books, school meals, heating etc, of which they pay probably British tax payers to prepare the school meals. british bookshops etc. All of these teachers, plumbers, sparx dinner ladies pay UK taxes, buy british goods (VAT etc). Who are the winners?...The British....I don't see any benefit directly going back to Slovakia or the Roma (unless the choose to send money home but what responsible adult doesn't want to look after their parents) and we could be educating the next generation of doctors for the NHS who may one day save our lives.
Even in this inflammatory, untypical and clearly biased article I can see clear benefits to the UK economy.

It cost more than that in 2002-2003, and that's just the running costs.

[Link]

 


Optimistic as ever

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post
JohnyBoy Flag 03 May 16 5.06pm Send a Private Message to JohnyBoy Add JohnyBoy as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

It cost more than that in 2002-2003, and that's just the running costs.

[Link]

Thank you STUK, i didnt know the up to date costs but my point is that the vast majority of these costs are in wages to British taxpayers which therefore means the treasury and our public services are the main beneficiaries

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post

Topic Locked

Page 65 of 2586 < 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Topic