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The Dolphin Flag 20 Dec 21 8.36am

That is the problem - media pressure and more.
They daren't not listen to the doom mongers for fear of further embarrassment but at the same time these current restrictions are causing a lot of - understandable - angst in certain industries.
A lockdown will cause as much uproar one way or the other so they might as well tell us to be sensible and carry on.
Trouble is that you have the likes of Sadiq Khan playing politics with Covid - London is in a far better place today than say 11 months ago and yet he can't stop himself declaring a "major emergency"!
Sage saying - there could be between 600 and 6000 deaths - I think - per day.
That is one heck of a spread!!!
Imagine your builder telling you that your job would cost between £600 and £6000.
These "experts" just make things up and every time I hear the name Neil Ferguson then I know that absolute garbage is being spoken!

 

The Dolphin Flag 20 Dec 21 9.39am

Quote for the BBC webpage this morning - Modelling from Sage - scientists who advise the government - puts UK daily deaths at 600 a day at best and 6,000 a day at worst.
they just pluck figures out of the air.
They are advisors and yet they are all keen to get their faces on TV to tell us the worst just in case they are right.
The Welsh health minister said last week that there were 10,000 people in hospital with Covid in Wales- she was forced to apologise the following day when told that the figure was nearer to 600 people!
Project Fear!

Edited by The Dolphin (20 Dec 2021 9.40am)

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 20 Dec 21 9.48am

It’s easier and politically safer to copy the other governments on this, and as Dubai said, once France or Germany introduce tougher restrictions then it’s only a matter of hours before Johnson does.

I spoke to someone yesterday who’s in an industry the government have some say in and there’s an instruction on the 28th that was given before the other lockdowns so we’ll see. I expect everything except work and essential shopping. Everything except essential key work will cost too much but when you’re in so much debt and the age groups that do vote call for it…

 


COYP

The Dolphin Flag 20 Dec 21 10.28am

This could be Boris's moment to claw back everything that he has lost of late by telling us all to be careful, wear our masks and so on but absolutely no lockdown - trouble is - has he got the b***s to do it?

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 21 10.32am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

We are constantly being told that we have to do everything we can to save the NHS, or help the NHS but no other countries have it - presumably they’re all doing what they can to save something which doesn’t have the emotional pull of the NHS.

That other countries don't have the NHS does mean they aren't protecting their own health services in much the same way as we are! There's nothing "emotional" about it. It's simple logic.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Eaglecoops Flag CR3 20 Dec 21 10.41am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That other countries don't have the NHS does mean they aren't protecting their own health services in much the same way as we are! There's nothing "emotional" about it. It's simple logic.

If it’s free, in this country it’s celebrated, if it’s paid for it’s just another business, which is how I view the NHS because we do pay for it, just not directly.

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 21 11.04am

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Quote for the BBC webpage this morning - Modelling from Sage - scientists who advise the government - puts UK daily deaths at 600 a day at best and 6,000 a day at worst.
they just pluck figures out of the air.
They are advisors and yet they are all keen to get their faces on TV to tell us the worst just in case they are right.
The Welsh health minister said last week that there were 10,000 people in hospital with Covid in Wales- she was forced to apologise the following day when told that the figure was nearer to 600 people!
Project Fear!

Edited by The Dolphin (20 Dec 2021 9.40am)

They just don't "pluck figures out of the air" or "want to get on TV". Neither is remotely true. You have posted a lot of common sense recently, but I don't think this is.

The science is based on sophisticated computer modelling, done by various independent groups. When their results all point in the same direction, and groups in other countries are reaching similar conclusions, then they need to be taken seriously.

We need to trust experts and not our "gut instincts".

You wouldn't have a family picnic in the middle of the M25 just because there was no traffic to be seen. The experts, looking at their screens, would know it was a temporary hold up and, as soon as it cleared, there would be a surge of vehicles bearing down on you.

That some of our scientists have been trained in media skills doesn't mean they want to be on TV, only that they need to be. Most shun the limelight.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 20 Dec 21 11.10am

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

If it’s free, in this country it’s celebrated, if it’s paid for it’s just another business, which is how I view the NHS because we do pay for it, just not directly.

Everyone knows we pay for it. It is just a different business model. Compared, for instance, with the USA, it is a much more efficient way of delivering health care. It costs us around half per capita than in the USA.

When the motive is profit, finding problems, and extending treatments, is commercially attractive.

When the motive is efficiency, the motive is to discover the real issues and treat them as swiftly as possible.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 20 Dec 21 11.17am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Everyone knows we pay for it. It is just a different business model. Compared, for instance, with the USA, it is a much more efficient way of delivering health care. It costs us around half per capita than in the USA.

When the motive is profit, finding problems, and extending treatments, is commercially attractive.

When the motive is efficiency, the motive is to discover the real issues and treat them as swiftly as possible.

State run organisations efficient! You do make me laugh Wisbelch.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 20 Dec 21 11.31am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

They just don't "pluck figures out of the air" or "want to get on TV". Neither is remotely true. You have posted a lot of common sense recently, but I don't think this is.

The science is based on sophisticated computer modelling, done by various independent groups. When their results all point in the same direction, and groups in other countries are reaching similar conclusions, then they need to be taken seriously.

We need to trust experts and not our "gut instincts".

You wouldn't have a family picnic in the middle of the M25 just because there was no traffic to be seen. The experts, looking at their screens, would know it was a temporary hold up and, as soon as it cleared, there would be a surge of vehicles bearing down on you.

That some of our scientists have been trained in media skills doesn't mean they want to be on TV, only that they need to be. Most shun the limelight.

Is this a joke? Incredulous rubbish. All of these experts have produced wildly different projections. The best recently is 600-6,000. I can’t even remember what the prediction was for it’s so ridiculously wide (and probably by 1 person/group)

 


COYP

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 20 Dec 21 11.33am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Everyone knows we pay for it. It is just a different business model. Compared, for instance, with the USA, it is a much more efficient way of delivering health care. It costs us around half per capita than in the USA.

When the motive is profit, finding problems, and extending treatments, is commercially attractive.

When the motive is efficiency, the motive is to discover the real issues and treat them as swiftly as possible.

Or when it's not your money you don't care about efficiency from Senior managers on down. The wastage in the NHS is horrendous.

 


One more point

eaglesdare Flag 20 Dec 21 11.40am

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Quote for the BBC webpage this morning - Modelling from Sage - scientists who advise the government - puts UK daily deaths at 600 a day at best and 6,000 a day at worst.
they just pluck figures out of the air.
They are advisors and yet they are all keen to get their faces on TV to tell us the worst just in case they are right.
The Welsh health minister said last week that there were 10,000 people in hospital with Covid in Wales- she was forced to apologise the following day when told that the figure was nearer to 600 people!
Project Fear!

Edited by The Dolphin (20 Dec 2021 9.40am)


Completely agree with this! Its thier moment to shine all these professors and scientists and they are coming up with with these ridiculous numbers and doom and gloom predictions which the media all love and keen to interview! god fobid they interview someone who has some sense!

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 20 Dec 21 11.43am

Originally posted by The Dolphin

This could be Boris's moment to claw back everything that he has lost of late by telling us all to be careful, wear our masks and so on but absolutely no lockdown - trouble is - has he got the b***s to do it?

Personally I think this is actually more likely than you think. If he goes further than that he dies, politically. So in fact it would take more balls to enforce a lockdown than what is now option 1, according to the telegraph.

Option 2 is back to enforced social distancing and reduced mixing. It's going to be 1 or 2, probably 1.

My hunch now is that the real issue is not going to be hospitalisations, it's going to be the knock on of mass isolation across various industries and sectors. So something is coming, albeit temporarily, either way.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Teddy Eagle Flag 20 Dec 21 12.00pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That other countries don't have the NHS does mean they aren't protecting their own health services in much the same way as we are! There's nothing "emotional" about it. It's simple logic.

It's even simpler logic that people in other countries aren't likely to be that concerned about HMOs that they can't afford.

 

The Dolphin Flag 20 Dec 21 12.27pm

Wisbech - if scientific modelling produces a range of between 600 and 6000 deaths per day then something is wrong.
I accept those are best/worst case scenarios but the truth is that they do not yet have enough info on Omicron except that in theory it is not as bad as Delta and with the vaccination level being high then hospitalisations/deaths should stay relatively low.
New cases shouldn't mean further restrictions if they are not resulting in the NHS being put under pressure.
Until they have enough info to comment seriously then they should spouting forth about it.

 

The Dolphin Flag 20 Dec 21 12.30pm

Someone should seriously list out all of the figures/stats that were spouted last time out - they were all wrong then and likely all wrong now.
Every death is sad but we heard 500,000 deaths by the end of last year and so on - most of them are just academic buffoons.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards SW19 CPFC Flag Addiscombe West 20 Dec 21 12.54pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Someone should seriously list out all of the figures/stats that were spouted last time out - they were all wrong then and likely all wrong now.
Every death is sad but we heard 500,000 deaths by the end of last year and so on - most of them are just academic buffoons.

I think it also depends on what you're being fed by the media. The trash rags such as the mail and below will always go for the higher or highest end projections, because clicks

How many wild projections is irrelevant. What is more interesting, and relevant, is to know what scenarios were presented and chosen by those making the decisions as the most likely out of the range, as these would be the ones that led to those decisions being taken.

 


Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Teddy Eagle Flag 20 Dec 21 1.05pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

I think it also depends on what you're being fed by the media. The trash rags such as the mail and below will always go for the higher or highest end projections, because clicks

How many wild projections is irrelevant. What is more interesting, and relevant, is to know what scenarios were presented and chosen by those making the decisions as the most likely out of the range, as these would be the ones that led to those decisions being taken.

It doesn’t make it easy to “follow the science” when such disparate projections are offered up.
Trevor Phillips put it to Sajid Javid yesterday that the government are only shown the stats they ask for and he didn’t really deny it.

 

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 20 Dec 21 1.28pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

It doesn’t make it easy to “follow the science” when such disparate projections are offered up.
Trevor Phillips put it to Sajid Javid yesterday that the government are only shown the stats they ask for and he didn’t really deny it.

Yeah, one expert on the radio said they are asked to give an opinion about something and are told what the opinion is-and hey presto-you got the job!

 

Teddy Eagle Flag 20 Dec 21 1.38pm

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