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Calais migrant trouble
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| Hoof Hearted 12 Aug 15 12.03pm | |
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Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
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leggedstruggle  Croydon 12 Aug 15 12.06pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 11.15am
Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 11.05am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 11.01am
Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 10.39am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 10.36am
Quote dannyh at 12 Aug 2015 10.25am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 10.11am
Quote reborn at 11 Aug 2015 7.42pm
Keep building those machine guns though A very reasonable piece of journalism that will no doubt be savaged for being from the Independent by rabid right. But it seemed fairly balanced to me (i.e. looking beyond the hyperbole at the problem).
It's like me saying all left leaning Holers wear sandals, read the Grauniad, eat Tofu, and live in a Yurt in Islington. Jamie, your letting your usual balanced posting become ever more influenced by all things Diane Abbott. As an aside did you see the twitter ravings of that self important hypocritical pig the other day ? you talk about hyperbole, she wrote the book on it. Loathsome woman. For me rabid right are those who would reject something out of hand, without assessing it. There is looney left as well. Its a reasonable piece, in that it discusses the claim and presents a counter point and explanation and refutations. It doesn't say there isn't a problem, but that maybe the problem is overstated, how the problem occurred, how singular events aren't evidenced and how the situation maybe be exaggerated for political reasons, whilst still stating there is a problem. A mile away from the 'Sky is Falling, End of Civilisation' approach of the Tabloid media. For example that the reason that there has been a massive increase in those targeting the tunnels, stems from the security measures implemented elsewhere. In previous posts on this thread you have stated that you agree that there should be immigration controls. Why do you think we need such controls and what problems would we face without them?
Then I refer you to my reply. Only very stupid people would think that no immigration controls would be advisable, or that anyone here thinks that. I agree that only very stupid people would think that no immigration controls would be advisable. What I would like to know from the left on here is why they think we need such controls and what problems would we face without them? If you have answered that I must have missed it. If you could point me to which of the 62 pages evasions it is on I would be grateful. For the same reasons as anyone else would reasonably believe in any form of control, to regulate the potential for becoming a problem socially or economically. Same reason regulation exists for all systems, its a means of control towards a norm of stability. I've long been a critic of EU working migration, but not the migrants, even before it was popular, not because I don't like our European fellows, but that it undermined the position of the UK working class, and negated the responsibility of the state to engage in getting people into employment, by allowing a cheap migrant labour to be used, that ultimately served to keep wages artificially low for citizens of the UK. Thanks for a clear answer Jamie, very refreshing to get a straight answer rather than the continual evasions from the likes of Legal and Nick. I very much agree with your comments on the affect on the UK working class of immigration. Not just in terms of wages and jobs, but housing costs too. As you say anyone would reasonably believe in a form of control. Yet we are members of the EU which means that we have absolutely no control whatsoever over EU immigration.
mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler |
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 DanH SW2 12 Aug 15 12.29pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Aug 15 12.36pm |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 11.56am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 11.10am
Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 10.52am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 10.36am
Quote dannyh at 12 Aug 2015 10.25am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 10.11am
Quote reborn at 11 Aug 2015 7.42pm
Keep building those machine guns though A very reasonable piece of journalism that will no doubt be savaged for being from the Independent by rabid right. But it seemed fairly balanced to me (i.e. looking beyond the hyperbole at the problem).
It's like me saying all left leaning Holers wear sandals, read the Grauniad, eat Tofu, and live in a Yurt in Islington. Jamie, your letting your usual balanced posting become ever more influenced by all things Diane Abbott. As an aside did you see the twitter ravings of that self important hypocritical pig the other day ? you talk about hyperbole, she wrote the book on it. Loathsome woman. For me rabid right are those who would reject something out of hand, without assessing it. There is looney left as well. Its a reasonable piece, in that it discusses the claim and presents a counter point and explanation and refutations. It doesn't say there isn't a problem, but that maybe the problem is overstated, how the problem occurred, how singular events aren't evidenced and how the situation maybe be exaggerated for political reasons, whilst still stating there is a problem. A mile away from the 'Sky is Falling, End of Civilisation' approach of the Tabloid media. For example that the reason that there has been a massive increase in those targeting the tunnels, stems from the security measures implemented elsewhere. In fact the left are far more likely to start with preconceived ideas. Examples are public services are better than non-public services; all immigration is beneficial; certain terrorist groups like the IRA and Hamas can be excused to some extent because we like their cause; the USA is totally evil; communism was not nearly as bad as fascism; multi-culturalism works and is beneficial; the EU is wonderful and we should stay in at all costs; we should not have sufficient armed forces and weapons to protect ourselves; we must not change anything in the NHS and continue to pour ever increasing amounts of money into it; South Africa has a wonderful government and people should keep quite about Zimbawe; people should be prosecuted and their careers ruined for making the slightest critical reference to non-heterosexuals or non-white or non-Christian people. Any evidence to the contrary concerning these attitudes is ignored by the left - ever more convoluted arguments are put forward to prop up these sacred cows. Yet you call the right narrow minded and blinkered, it is like Quasimodo telling you that you have rounded shoulders. Edited by leggedstruggle (12 Aug 2015 10.54am) Ah, and there in lies your problem, I was referring to some of the right, not all of the right wingers, as rabid. Not everyone who's right wing is wrong, disagreeable or without reason. Only some, who's response typically is excessive, disproportionate and personally directed. Usually they're the kind of people who don't actually assess what people say, and instead decide what they mean based on their preconceptions and prejudices, rather than what the other person as said or read. The kind of people who see a word and react, rather than see the context and respond. We could substitute the word 'left' in place of the word 'right' in your post and it would be just as valid. I do accept that your good self does surprise now and again when you certainly do go against the left-wing grain, no doubt to the chagrin of the more doctrinaire lefties on here. (I'll ignore the penultimate paragraph that is presumably aimed at me! Even though is could be construed as 'personally directed'.)
Which I pointed out in my response to Dannyh. The latter is open to interpretation, obviously, but it wasn't specifically aimed at yourself. And yes, its true, that the left and liberals have their fair share of dogmatic parrots, much as the right does.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Aug 15 12.39pm |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 12.06pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 11.15am
Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 11.05am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 11.01am
Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Aug 2015 10.39am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 10.36am
Quote dannyh at 12 Aug 2015 10.25am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 10.11am
Quote reborn at 11 Aug 2015 7.42pm
Keep building those machine guns though A very reasonable piece of journalism that will no doubt be savaged for being from the Independent by rabid right. But it seemed fairly balanced to me (i.e. looking beyond the hyperbole at the problem).
It's like me saying all left leaning Holers wear sandals, read the Grauniad, eat Tofu, and live in a Yurt in Islington. Jamie, your letting your usual balanced posting become ever more influenced by all things Diane Abbott. As an aside did you see the twitter ravings of that self important hypocritical pig the other day ? you talk about hyperbole, she wrote the book on it. Loathsome woman. For me rabid right are those who would reject something out of hand, without assessing it. There is looney left as well. Its a reasonable piece, in that it discusses the claim and presents a counter point and explanation and refutations. It doesn't say there isn't a problem, but that maybe the problem is overstated, how the problem occurred, how singular events aren't evidenced and how the situation maybe be exaggerated for political reasons, whilst still stating there is a problem. A mile away from the 'Sky is Falling, End of Civilisation' approach of the Tabloid media. For example that the reason that there has been a massive increase in those targeting the tunnels, stems from the security measures implemented elsewhere. In previous posts on this thread you have stated that you agree that there should be immigration controls. Why do you think we need such controls and what problems would we face without them?
Then I refer you to my reply. Only very stupid people would think that no immigration controls would be advisable, or that anyone here thinks that. I agree that only very stupid people would think that no immigration controls would be advisable. What I would like to know from the left on here is why they think we need such controls and what problems would we face without them? If you have answered that I must have missed it. If you could point me to which of the 62 pages evasions it is on I would be grateful. For the same reasons as anyone else would reasonably believe in any form of control, to regulate the potential for becoming a problem socially or economically. Same reason regulation exists for all systems, its a means of control towards a norm of stability. I've long been a critic of EU working migration, but not the migrants, even before it was popular, not because I don't like our European fellows, but that it undermined the position of the UK working class, and negated the responsibility of the state to engage in getting people into employment, by allowing a cheap migrant labour to be used, that ultimately served to keep wages artificially low for citizens of the UK. Thanks for a clear answer Jamie, very refreshing to get a straight answer rather than the continual evasions from the likes of Legal and Nick. I very much agree with your comments on the affect on the UK working class of immigration. Not just in terms of wages and jobs, but housing costs too. As you say anyone would reasonably believe in a form of control. Yet we are members of the EU which means that we have absolutely no control whatsoever over EU immigration. I think its an area of the EU membership that needs regulation, but that governments have accepted largely on the basis of the corporate pressure and economic benefit of not having to undertake efforts at relocating UK unemployed to fill roles. Its really the only issue of the EU I would take question with, is the idea of right to work anywhere being unregulated as a whole. For the most part I'm unsold on either side of the EU debate (I'm a big fan of the ECHR mind).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 12 Aug 15 12.43pm |
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Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 12.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
Optimistic as ever |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Aug 15 12.51pm |
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Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Skimmed it and recognised a load of stuff trotted out before and it didn't address the problem of how we are going to feed all these people and the children in the future if we build on prime agricultural land. I think UK agricultural sustainability of the future generation is a doomed concept. But I agree with the reality that building on green belt land or even old farm land isn't necessarily a viable solution as the infrastructure pressures in these, typically out of town places, isn't sufficient. You can't just put a new estate on to a main road, and expect the system to work as the congestion will have multiple knock on effects. And the problem with Green Belt land is that its also typically outside of major infrastructure and transport zones (so no public transport coverage), and increasing need for the use of private transport (its also tricky to adapt public transport routes to sufficiently provide a decent service, as you'd need to purchase more buses for existing routes). Plus finally these zones are green belt largely because their location isn't particularly desirable in terms of proximity to employment convenience.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Aug 15 12.52pm |
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Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 12.43pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 12.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
Too much, too cheap and where it does come locally, usually supermarkets have squeezed almost all the profit out of the supplier.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 12 Aug 15 1.00pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 12.52pm
Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 12.43pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 12.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
Too much, too cheap and where it does come locally, usually supermarkets have squeezed almost all the profit out of the supplier.
Seafood farmed in Thailand and China... no thanks.
Optimistic as ever |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 12 Aug 15 1.13pm |
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Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 1.00pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 12.52pm
Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 12.43pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 12.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
Too much, too cheap and where it does come locally, usually supermarkets have squeezed almost all the profit out of the supplier.
Seafood farmed in Thailand and China... no thanks. Not to mention the fact that Thai and Chinese Seafood farming is literally based on a slave model of production, which is illegal under international law.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 12 Aug 15 1.26pm |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 1.13pm
Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 1.00pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 12.52pm
Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 12.43pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 12.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
Too much, too cheap and where it does come locally, usually supermarkets have squeezed almost all the profit out of the supplier.
Seafood farmed in Thailand and China... no thanks. Not to mention the fact that Thai and Chinese Seafood farming is literally based on a slave model of production, which is illegal under international law.
Optimistic as ever |
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| DanH SW2 12 Aug 15 1.27pm |
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Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 1.26pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 1.13pm
Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 1.00pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 12 Aug 2015 12.52pm
Quote Stuk at 12 Aug 2015 12.43pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 12.29pm
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 12.03pm
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.59am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.57am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.45am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.33am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 11.16am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 11.06am
Quote DanH at 12 Aug 2015 10.53am
Quote Hoof Hearted at 12 Aug 2015 10.46am
Quote mezzer at 12 Aug 2015 10.41am
Quote dannyh at 11 Aug 2015 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. Is mine the only computer that showed these questions? All very good ones Danny and I thought at least one of them deserved an answer.
None of the others acknowledged or addressed my concerns and it will probably be the same here.
The current government's approach, whilst it has steadied the ship in the short term has only really papered over the cracks; a lot of the recovery has been because of the non-stop rise in house prices, fuelled by the lack of supply. All the while there's little to no investment in roads/schools/housing/hospitals then we will struggle. I know it's a common view that "there's no space" however there was a study from the Adam Smith institute recently (I'll try and find it) which estimated that about a million new homes could be built on 3.4% of the green belt. I know we need to keep this country green and pleasant etc. etc. however that's a bloody lot of houses for not much sacrifice. I apologise profusely for a sensible post. Edited by DanH (12 Aug 2015 10.54am)
A million new homes would need schools, shops, Dr's surgeries, hospitals, roads, etc.... would you build on more of the green belt for these too?
nickgusset's suggestion to use-up properties lying empty, and brown field sites would ease matters for housing, but won't address the lack of schools, Dr's surgeries or hospitals.
Once built on, farmland is lost forever.
It's not suggesting building on 'prime agricultural land' anyway. And as for feeding people, do you realise how much of the stuff in your local supermarkets is imported from other countries?
Too much, too cheap and where it does come locally, usually supermarkets have squeezed almost all the profit out of the supplier.
Seafood farmed in Thailand and China... no thanks. Not to mention the fact that Thai and Chinese Seafood farming is literally based on a slave model of production, which is illegal under international law.
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