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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Apr 23 6.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
That is why I framed it as potential rather than a fact and does state that it would be “unethical” to conduct the tests on humans so it is very unlikely we will get the 100% confirmation (either way) that you are seeking. Re your question about the Mail - they actively supported the Government message and fear mongering throughout the pandemic period so not sure what your point is? What I criticised was the headline. How many people read past the headline? If they really wanted to be objective, the lack of any actual testing would have featured much more prominently, ideally as a sub-headline. The Mail will do whatever suits the agenda of its owners, which most of the time means feeding its readership red meat. They are though traditional supporters of the Tories so supporting the government at a time of crisis is only to be expected. Now the crisis has moderated they are back to normal.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Apr 23 6.37pm | |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Sorry WE this is nonsense - from my experience I would say that only a very small minority of mask wearers used the N95 versions - they used a mix of homemade cotton/ fabric masks or the blue disposable types (which were used time and again). In the first phase what you say is true. People were making their own masks, others in bulk and selling them in pubs. That changed towards the end as the benefit of the N95 types became understood and if a mask was required it tended to be that kind which was worm. At least in my own experience.
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Eden Eagle Kent 23 Apr 23 6.47pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
In the first phase what you say is true. People were making their own masks, others in bulk and selling them in pubs. That changed towards the end as the benefit of the N95 types became understood and if a mask was required it tended to be that kind which was worm. At least in my own experience. Sorry must disagree - I saw very little evidence that N95 masks were been worn in anything other than very small numbers. It must have been different for you in Cornwall..
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Stirlingsays 23 Apr 23 8.47pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What you claim is completely untrue. Just read this for evidence of that:- That no-it-alls with an overriding fixation on "personal freedoms" want us all to believe it was a waste of time doesn't change the truth. This was a new situation. We needed to learn. Mask-wearing was part of an effort to change people's behaviour. A change designed to benefit us all and one in which we all had a duty to participate. We don't live in isolation. What we do as individuals impacts others. Those who made spurious and worthless arguments about their "personal freedom" being infringed as a reason for not complying were just demonstrating their selfishness. The government weren't "controlling" people's behaviour at all. They were encouraging, initially through persuasion and then via some sanctions, people to behave sensibly in an emerging situation. That's their job. They need to lead, and then apply pressure on those who fail to play their part. It's as though you regard having speed limits as our government "controlling" us! They are there for our benefit because the majority of us want them to be. You don't let headstrong boy racers off the hook just because their "personal freedom" to drive at 100 mph past a school has been removed. You posted a link that didn't provide any 'evidence'. It's about a simulation and no 'evidence'. The data on masks has been done many many times and as usual you don't know what you are talking about. You just waffle on looking for negative attention due to your weird condition. Regardless, you deserve to be told because people like you have been ruinous. As I said, if people wanted to wear masks there's no issue with me. However the enforcement and punishment for not wearing one should not be forgotten. The authoritarians who fined and punished people for trying to live their life in their own way should not think it's ok to just shrug it all off. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Apr 2023 8.51pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Apr 23 11.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You posted a link that didn't provide any 'evidence'. It's about a simulation and no 'evidence'. The data on masks has been done many many times and as usual you don't know what you are talking about. You just waffle on looking for negative attention due to your weird condition. Regardless, you deserve to be told because people like you have been ruinous. As I said, if people wanted to wear masks there's no issue with me. However the enforcement and punishment for not wearing one should not be forgotten. The authoritarians who fined and punished people for trying to live their life in their own way should not think it's ok to just shrug it all off. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Apr 2023 8.51pm) I think you really need to draw breath, read things and think about them a little harder, instead of pursuing this obsession you appear to have in attacking me personally. It really isn't very dignified. What you wrote was:- "Masks have been used for over a century and in various forms before that. The idea that we somehow didn't know how effective masks for in handling airborne viruses is utter nonsense." What I said, and what the link I posted proves, is that it simply isn't true. If it were there would have been no need to carry out any kind of research on mask-wearing for Covid 19. It would have been a settled issue and masks would not have been worn. Just because you want it to be settled doesn't mean it was or is now. Of course, mask-wearing was not, and never could have been, a wholly voluntary matter. To have allowed that would have defeated its whole purpose and we might just as well have abandoned the whole idea. Anyone who thinks it could doesn't truly understand the point. It was, in any case, always a voluntary decision whether to wear a mask or not. No one forced anyone who strongly objected to wearing one to do so. They could stay at home, remain away from others, and never wear one. Their choice. But just as soon as they decided to mix with others they needed to comply with the requirements of the majority. That's what living in a community demands of individuals. You can opt out of that community, but opt in and you follow the rules. No one would punish you for not wearing a mask at home. Do so in a shared space and you risked punishment. Not for the first time you reveal yourself as an anarchist and not a democrat when you seek to categorise perfectly normal behaviour by governments as "authoritarian". It's nothing of the sort.
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Teddy Eagle 23 Apr 23 11.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I think you really need to draw breath, read things and think about them a little harder, instead of pursuing this obsession you appear to have in attacking me personally. It really isn't very dignified. What you wrote was:- "Masks have been used for over a century and in various forms before that. The idea that we somehow didn't know how effective masks for in handling airborne viruses is utter nonsense." What I said, and what the link I posted proves, is that it simply isn't true. If it were there would have been no need to carry out any kind of research on mask-wearing for Covid 19. It would have been a settled issue and masks would not have been worn. Just because you want it to be settled doesn't mean it was or is now. Of course, mask-wearing was not, and never could have been, a wholly voluntary matter. To have allowed that would have defeated its whole purpose and we might just as well have abandoned the whole idea. Anyone who thinks it could doesn't truly understand the point. It was, in any case, always a voluntary decision whether to wear a mask or not. No one Not for the first time you reveal yourself as an anarchist and not a democrat when you seek to categorise perfectly normal behaviour by governments as "authoritarian". It's nothing of the sort. Mask wearing wasn't essential at Downing Street parties during lockdown.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Apr 23 11.32pm | |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Sorry must disagree - I saw very little evidence that N95 masks were been worn in anything other than very small numbers. It must have been different for you in Cornwall.. I have no idea whether it is different here, although instinctively I doubt it. I am sensing an upturn in mask-wearing again in some shops and other public places. I would agree that the N95 remain in the minority but they were hardly ever seen in the first phase. Indeed I don't think they were available, but they are now. Should there ever be a return to mandatory mask wearing in public spaces I suspect it would now require them to be the N95 type, due to their proven greater efficiency.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Apr 23 11.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Mask wearing wasn't essential at Downing Street parties during lockdown. What do you think that proves that we all don't already know? We know Johnson is a lying t*** who thinks he is above the law.
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Teddy Eagle 23 Apr 23 11.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What do you think that proves that we all don't already know? We know Johnson is a lying t*** who thinks he is above the law. It proves that those working there didn't buy into the fear the public were encouraged to believe.
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 23 Apr 23 11.58pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
This isn't new and has been discussed here before. It's more sensationalist recycling from the Mail. As our knowledge increased so the responses evolved. We started to use N95 masks which offer greater protection. Mask-wearing was always part of reassuring the public and encouraging them to participate in other preventative actions. I know I felt more comfortable when in crowded spaces knowing I wasn't going to receive the direct impact of someone else's sneeze. No. We didn't. Why would we? 'N' as in "N95" is a US product. This shows how little you, and many others, understand about masks and respirators. We, as in the UK, would use FFP standard masks/respirators. It's the European standard which has to be adhered to in workplace environments according to HSE legislation. Wiki [Link] And as you never mention those face coverings, you have obviously never used them. Which leads me to think that the hospital your wife works at doesn't use them either. As I said at the outset of the virus, mask wearing is merely a form of ensuring compliance. Masks that may have helped reduce the spread were not used by 99% of people at any time. So, pointless, unless you were a mask manufacturer.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Apr 23 8.05am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It proves that those working there didn't buy into the fear the public were encouraged to believe. I think that's been obvious for a long time. The culture promoted by Johnson and his advisors was disgraceful. I bet the professionals who were the architects of the policy were less than impressed by the behaviour. The policy was not to induce fear but to reduce it by providing reassurance that measures were being taken to keep people safe. The fear already existed.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Apr 23 8.15am | |
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Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64
No. We didn't. Why would we? 'N' as in "N95" is a US product. This shows how little you, and many others, understand about masks and respirators. We, as in the UK, would use FFP standard masks/respirators. It's the European standard which has to be adhered to in workplace environments according to HSE legislation. Wiki [Link] And as you never mention those face coverings, you have obviously never used them. Which leads me to think that the hospital your wife works at doesn't use them either. As I said at the outset of the virus, mask wearing is merely a form of ensuring compliance. Masks that may have helped reduce the spread were not used by 99% of people at any time. So, pointless, unless you were a mask manufacturer. Ok, if you want to be pedantic, N95 "type" masks. It's how people refer to them as they are nearly identical. My wife, and her colleagues, continue to wear surgical masks for their daily work. So they believe they are effective. Whether just in providing reassurance or in restricting the chances of receiving a direct heavy viral load, or both, I don't know. They have N95 types available for specific situations. Patients don't have to wear masks, but they are available for those who want them.
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