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jcreedy 08 Sep 15 12.48pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Sep 2015 7.07pm Quote jcreedy at 06 Sep 2015 7.03pm There's two sides to it. If the UK hadn't supplied arms to various groups in Syria, and the Middle-East as a whole, there might not be such a huge number of people leaving the area. You seriously don't know what you are talking about. Apart from what you are suggesting would have led to whole city wide massacres and oppression with no way to fight back.....You also seem to not be aware of the basic situation in the region. Most of the rebel weapons came from Qatar, Turkey and the House of Saud.....All of whom hate the Assad family and regime. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Sep 2015 7.08pm) They also came from the UK, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try checking out this article from 2013. I knew it would come back to bite us. You might also want to look at the map of where our overseas weapons contracts are, and then consider what correlation that has with the mass of people leaving Syria and Iran. [Link] Attachment: Capture.JPG (93.33Kb) It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. - John Bostock (Nov 2007)
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jcreedy

08 Sep 15 12.48pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 06 Sep 2015 7.07pm

Quote jcreedy at 06 Sep 2015 7.03pm

There's two sides to it. If the UK hadn't supplied arms to various groups in Syria, and the Middle-East as a whole, there might not be such a huge number of people leaving the area.

You seriously don't know what you are talking about.

Apart from what you are suggesting would have led to whole city wide massacres and oppression with no way to fight back.....You also seem to not be aware of the basic situation in the region.

Most of the rebel weapons came from Qatar, Turkey and the House of Saud.....All of whom hate the Assad family and regime.

Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Sep 2015 7.08pm)

They also came from the UK, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try checking out this article from 2013. I knew it would come back to bite us.

You might also want to look at the map of where our overseas weapons contracts are, and then consider what correlation that has with the mass of people leaving Syria and Iran.

[Link]

Attachment: Capture.JPG (93.33Kb)

It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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Stirlingsays 08 Sep 15 1.00pm
We have always had immigrants......At a reasonable level I think there is an element of truth in all that guff the politicians want us to believe about immigration being positive......They all say it like a mantra. When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces. Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation. As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people. Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations. But to go back to my original point, immigration can be positive if it is controlled and takes account of the host population instead of treating them like dumping grounds and culturally rapidly changing the nature of their living spaces......That's what 'freedom of movement' has given us. People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations. reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Sep 15 1.00pm

We have always had immigrants......At a reasonable level I think there is an element of truth in all that guff the politicians want us to believe about immigration being positive......They all say it like a mantra.

When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces.

Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation.

As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people.

Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations.

But to go back to my original point, immigration can be positive if it is controlled and takes account of the host population instead of treating them like dumping grounds and culturally rapidly changing the nature of their living spaces......That's what 'freedom of movement' has given us.

People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations.

reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Sep 15 1.00pm
Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 08 Sep 2015 11.42am I'm not sure there are too many ideology politicians left these days. It's all about votes and career. Party politics is for students and the daft. Let no one be under any illusion.They want your vote and your compliance. Anyone who wants a better life has to get it for themselves. Such as by smuggling themselves into the UK? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 08 Sep 15 1.00pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 08 Sep 2015 11.42am

I'm not sure there are too many ideology politicians left these days. It's all about votes and career.
Party politics is for students and the daft.

Let no one be under any illusion.They want your vote and your compliance. Anyone who wants a better life has to get it for themselves.

Such as by smuggling themselves into the UK?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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leggedstruggle Croydon 08 Sep 15 1.02pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 11.15am Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 10.44am Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 10.08am Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 9.38am Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 9.32am Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 9.28am Quote johnny the eagle at 08 Sep 2015 7.54am I've been reading this tread and the comments for quite a while now, and if I wanted to really say what I was feeling ...............Well I would get reds yellows oranges and all the other colours of the rainbow. Like 10 year's ago just before my old man died fought in the Royal navy on subs HMS Tally Ho, surface ships HMS Kipling, HMS Asine to name just a few, got badly wounded in Crete. Anyway 10 years ago he and my mother, who was in the land army also, could not get a council house for love nor money. He and her lived in a private rented sh1t hole, for want of a better word, even the radiators could not be used because they were red rust and leaked. This sh1t hole he paid for out of his own private pension with no help from the state whats so ever...........well I could go one, one of the reasons I advocate charity begins at home.Before any smart @rse comes on here and tells me he should have done this and that, it was tried. Anyway it's too late now he is dead............... Well said Johnny. The new left couldn't care less about the ordinary people of the UK, unless of course the are of some non-UK 'heritage'. The policies of the likes of Corbyn would make ordinary people worse off along with totally uncontrolled immigration (not that it is controlled in any real sense now) lowering wages, taking jobs and housing and of course storing up serious inter-communal instability for the future. Er......by the end of this parliament the Right will have been in power for nearly thirty years out of the last forty. And you still blame the new left for all our ills. Wake up, man! Is Cameron right wing? Yes. By any definition the Conservative party are, and always have been a right wing party. Gay marriage - right wing? The Tories/New Labour/Liberals all more or less have the same 'liberal' outlook'. Very little difference between the Cameron and Blair governments. Very little difference between the Tory/Lib coalition and the current government. UKIP are right wing, you can tell from their sensible policies. Ah, I see you mean right wing like you are, and anyone on the left of you, is left wing. Given that the Tory Lib coalition, was formed from a majority of the same conservative leader and MPs its not surprising that its different. Ok Jamie, you tell us where the centre is and who is to the left and right of it please. mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler
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leggedstruggle

Croydon 08 Sep 15 1.02pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 11.15am

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 10.44am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 10.08am

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 9.38am

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 9.32am

Quote leggedstruggle at 08 Sep 2015 9.28am

Quote johnny the eagle at 08 Sep 2015 7.54am

I've been reading this tread and the comments for quite a while now, and if I wanted to really say what I was feeling ...............Well I would get reds yellows oranges and all the other colours of the rainbow. Like 10 year's ago just before my old man died fought in the Royal navy on subs HMS Tally Ho, surface ships HMS Kipling, HMS Asine to name just a few, got badly wounded in Crete. Anyway 10 years ago he and my mother, who was in the land army also, could not get a council house for love nor money. He and her lived in a private rented sh1t hole, for want of a better word, even the radiators could not be used because they were red rust and leaked. This sh1t hole he paid for out of his own private pension with no help from the state whats so ever...........well I could go one, one of the reasons I advocate charity begins at home.Before any smart @rse comes on here and tells me he should have done this and that, it was tried. Anyway it's too late now he is dead...............

Well said Johnny. The new left couldn't care less about the ordinary people of the UK, unless of course the are of some non-UK 'heritage'. The policies of the likes of Corbyn would make ordinary people worse off along with totally uncontrolled immigration (not that it is controlled in any real sense now) lowering wages, taking jobs and housing and of course storing up serious inter-communal instability for the future.

Er......by the end of this parliament the Right will have been in power for nearly thirty years out of the last forty. And you still blame the new left for all our ills. Wake up, man!

Is Cameron right wing?

Yes. By any definition the Conservative party are, and always have been a right wing party.

Gay marriage - right wing? The Tories/New Labour/Liberals all more or less have the same 'liberal' outlook'. Very little difference between the Cameron and Blair governments. Very little difference between the Tory/Lib coalition and the current government. UKIP are right wing, you can tell from their sensible policies.

Ah, I see you mean right wing like you are, and anyone on the left of you, is left wing.

Given that the Tory Lib coalition, was formed from a majority of the same conservative leader and MPs its not surprising that its different.

Ok Jamie, you tell us where the centre is and who is to the left and right of it please.

mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Stirlingsays 08 Sep 15 1.12pm
Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 12.48pm They also came from the UK, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try checking out this article from 2013. I knew it would come back to bite us. You might also want to look at the map of where our overseas weapons contracts are, and then consider what correlation that has with the mass of people leaving Syria and Iran. [Link] The whole argument doesn't hold water. Whether arms are sold by us or not these immigrants were still going to be coming this way. The implication that civilians should be butchered by Assad rather than defend themselves is a terrible one. Also, like I said.....The vast amount of weapons didn't come from us. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.15pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 Sep 15 1.12pm

Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 12.48pm

They also came from the UK, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try checking out this article from 2013. I knew it would come back to bite us.

You might also want to look at the map of where our overseas weapons contracts are, and then consider what correlation that has with the mass of people leaving Syria and Iran.

[Link]

The whole argument doesn't hold water.

Whether arms are sold by us or not these immigrants were still going to be coming this way.

The implication that civilians should be butchered by Assad rather than defend themselves is a terrible one.

Also, like I said.....The vast amount of weapons didn't come from us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.15pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.21pm
Just saw the refugee camp report from Lesbos. Desperate conditions and desperate catch 22 situation. They need papers to move on but can't get them. 25,000 on that small island. Gonna be hellish once the bad weather arrives. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.21pm

Just saw the refugee camp report from Lesbos. Desperate conditions and desperate catch 22 situation. They need papers to move on but can't get them. 25,000 on that small island. Gonna be hellish once the bad weather arrives.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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jcreedy 08 Sep 15 1.28pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.12pm Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 12.48pm They also came from the UK, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try checking out this article from 2013. I knew it would come back to bite us. You might also want to look at the map of where our overseas weapons contracts are, and then consider what correlation that has with the mass of people leaving Syria and Iran. [Link] The whole argument doesn't hold water. Whether arms are sold by us or not these immigrants were still going to be coming this way. The implication that civilians should be butchered by Assad rather than defend themselves is a terrible one. Also, like I said.....The vast amount of weapons didn't come from us. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.15pm) I'm not just talking about this though. I'm talking about all arms sales across the world. All it does is create death and sadness. I might be a complete fantastist, but it makes me incredibly frustrated to know that weapons sold by the UK to Israel may have been used to target Gaza. The lack of long-term thought is staggering. Would The CIA have armed the Taliban back in the 80's if they knew what they know now? Of course they wouldn't. Edited by jcreedy (08 Sep 2015 1.29pm) It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. - John Bostock (Nov 2007)
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jcreedy

08 Sep 15 1.28pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.12pm

Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 12.48pm

They also came from the UK, and I know exactly what I'm talking about. Try checking out this article from 2013. I knew it would come back to bite us.

You might also want to look at the map of where our overseas weapons contracts are, and then consider what correlation that has with the mass of people leaving Syria and Iran.

[Link]

The whole argument doesn't hold water.

Whether arms are sold by us or not these immigrants were still going to be coming this way.

The implication that civilians should be butchered by Assad rather than defend themselves is a terrible one.

Also, like I said.....The vast amount of weapons didn't come from us.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.15pm)

I'm not just talking about this though. I'm talking about all arms sales across the world. All it does is create death and sadness. I might be a complete fantastist, but it makes me incredibly frustrated to know that weapons sold by the UK to Israel may have been used to target Gaza. The lack of long-term thought is staggering.

Would The CIA have armed the Taliban back in the 80's if they knew what they know now? Of course they wouldn't.

Edited by jcreedy (08 Sep 2015 1.29pm)

It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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Kermit8 Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.30pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.00pm We have always had immigrants......At a reasonable level I think there is an element of truth in all that guff the politicians want us to believe about immigration being positive......They all say it like a mantra. When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces. Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation. As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people. Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations. But to go back to my original point, immigration can be positive if it is controlled and takes account of the host population instead of treating them like dumping grounds and culturally rapidly changing the nature of their living spaces......That's what 'freedom of movement' has given us. People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations. reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm) London in now rated by respected institutions as the top triple A* city on the globe and the most dynamic followed in second by New York. Something has gone right there since we were kids. It's a lot more varied colourful and interesting and, unfortunately, expensive but it is truly an amazing metropolis. The people make it fascinating imo. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.30pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Sep 2015 1.00pm

When I say a reasonable level I mean immigration used as a tool to balance the economy........Though I hasten to add not as tool to drive down wages for several already low paid workforces.

Our immigration level should definitely take account of our housing situation.

As a country I truly feel we are sticking our collective heads in the sand over housing provision......We are widening the divide between people.

Many who work just have no realistic chance of owning their home........The baby boomers had the cream of the chances and have screwed it all up for the next generations.

People talk about London as being a success story......But they ignore that many many people left London because of rapid change.....Many people whose families had lived there for many generations.

reasonableness and the immigration debate aren't on the same page.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Sep 2015 1.01pm)

London in now rated by respected institutions as the top triple A* city on the globe and the most dynamic followed in second by New York.

Something has gone right there since we were kids. It's a lot more varied colourful and interesting and, unfortunately, expensive but it is truly an amazing metropolis. The people make it fascinating imo.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Sep 15 1.32pm
Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.21pm Just saw the refugee camp report from Lesbos. Desperate conditions and desperate catch 22 situation. They need papers to move on but can't get them. 25,000 on that small island. Gonna be hellish once the bad weather arrives. The Island of Lesbos you say... without any further comment? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 08 Sep 15 1.32pm

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.21pm

The Island of Lesbos you say... without any further comment?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jcreedy 08 Sep 15 1.33pm
Quote serial thriller at 08 Sep 2015 9.18am 20 000 Syrian refugees...in 5 years. What a fcking joke. They'd be better buying a Euromillions ticket and hoping for the best rather than banking on us. And what about refugees from Libya, Somalia, Eritrea etc? Are they less important, or do they need to become more photographically tragic? What makes it worse is that when many of the children that are being taken in reach the age of 18, they can be sent back to wherever they came from, under current laws. Many Afghan children who claimed asylum in the 90's have been facing the same harrowing fate. It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.* - John Bostock (Nov 2007)
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jcreedy

08 Sep 15 1.33pm

Quote serial thriller at 08 Sep 2015 9.18am

20 000 Syrian refugees...in 5 years.

What a f*cking joke. They'd be better buying a Euromillions ticket and hoping for the best rather than banking on us. And what about refugees from Libya, Somalia, Eritrea etc? Are they less important, or do they need to become more photographically tragic?

What makes it worse is that when many of the children that are being taken in reach the age of 18, they can be sent back to wherever they came from, under current laws. Many Afghan children who claimed asylum in the 90's have been facing the same harrowing fate.

It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

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Kermit8 Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.36pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 1.32pm Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.21pm Just saw the refugee camp report from Lesbos. Desperate conditions and desperate catch 22 situation. They need papers to move on but can't get them. 25,000 on that small island. Gonna be hellish once the bad weather arrives. The Island of Lesbos you say... without any further comment? My lips are sealed. Nothing to be joking about human sapphic. I mean traffic. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.36pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Sep 2015 1.32pm

Quote Kermit8 at 08 Sep 2015 1.21pm

The Island of Lesbos you say... without any further comment?

My lips are sealed.

Nothing to be joking about human sapphic. I mean traffic.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.40pm
Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 1.33pm Quote serial thriller at 08 Sep 2015 9.18am 20 000 Syrian refugees...in 5 years. What a f*cking joke. They'd be better buying a Euromillions ticket and hoping for the best rather than banking on us. And what about refugees from Libya, Somalia, Eritrea etc? Are they less important, or do they need to become more photographically tragic? What makes it worse is that when many of the children that are being taken in reach the age of 18, they can be sent back to wherever they came from, under current laws. Many Afghan children who claimed asylum in the 90's have been facing the same harrowing fate. That is mental and very cruel. So a five year old can be sent back to somewhere like Afghanistan when they are 18? They won't even speak the language. A foreign footballer can claim a UK passport if here for ten years yet a child who had been here for 13 can't? Sheer bloody nastiness. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 08 Sep 15 1.40pm

Quote jcreedy at 08 Sep 2015 1.33pm

Quote serial thriller at 08 Sep 2015 9.18am

20 000 Syrian refugees...in 5 years.

That is mental and very cruel. So a five year old can be sent back to somewhere like Afghanistan when they are 18? They won't even speak the language.

A foreign footballer can claim a UK passport if here for ten years yet a child who had been here for 13 can't?

Sheer bloody nastiness.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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