Leaving aside the massive Bulkan Wars for now, just because there have been no major wars in the rest of Europe, why is that necessarily because of the existence of the EU?

Precisely my point re the Balkan wars (which were in central rather than W Europe)....the EU has contributed to making it unthinkable former nationalist rivals such as France, Germany, and the UK (and Germany v Poland) would go to war every generation or so..since, not least, rather than thinking of each other as eternal enemies, we would come to think of each other as all part of something together and iron out differences through dialogue, compromise and education,...the same applies to a repeat of the Balkan wars as more former Yugoslav states join the EU..

like letting them invest where they want, sell where they want and employ who they want? I agree.

Absolutely - and free of all the EU controls and micro 'management'.

what controls exactly did you mean? Health and safety? or the 'controls' which actually allow us to sell throughout the EU without restriction? You haven't read the book yet, have you?

_____________________________________________________
If we produce goods that people want to buy at a price that they are willing to pay, then we will trade.

Edited by kangel (18 May 2014 8.45pm)

Only in your dreams. Countries use tariff barriers to protect their own economies and always have. That means that we cannot compete if a country or trading bloc (i.e. the EU) places tariffs on our goods.

That is why the current GATT negotiations have been running for over 20 years without resolution and our ability to export to the US and other countries is severely restricted in a whole range of goods.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think we can just carry on trading with zero tariffs without accepting what goes with it.

It is perfectly possible to construct a reasonable argument for us to leave the EU but you do need some basic degree of understanding of the issues in order to do it. Unfortunately you are not demonstrating that capacity.

We managed fine before we were in the EU when, as you say, tariffs existed.

Absolutely - and free of all the EU controls and micro 'management'.

what controls exactly did you mean? Health and safety? or the 'controls' which actually allow us to sell throughout the EU without restriction? You haven't read the book yet, have you?

_____________________________________________________
If we produce goods that people want to buy at a price that they are willing to pay, then we will trade.

Edited by kangel (18 May 2014 8.45pm)

Only in your dreams. Countries use tariff barriers to protect their own economies and always have. That means that we cannot compete if a country or trading bloc (i.e. the EU) places tariffs on our goods.

That is why the current GATT negotiations have been running for over 20 years without resolution and our ability to export to the US and other countries is severely restricted in a whole range of goods.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think we can just carry on trading with zero tariffs without accepting what goes with it.

It is perfectly possible to construct a reasonable argument for us to leave the EU but you do need some basic degree of understanding of the issues in order to do it. Unfortunately you are not demonstrating that capacity.

We managed fine before we were in the EU when, as you say, tariffs existed.

We did, for a couple of hundred years, but that was because we had an Empire to trade with and we set the tariffs.

You may not have noticed, but we no longer have an Empire.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

what controls exactly did you mean? Health and safety? or the 'controls' which actually allow us to sell throughout the EU without restriction? You haven't read the book yet, have you?

_____________________________________________________
If we produce goods that people want to buy at a price that they are willing to pay, then we will trade.

Edited by kangel (18 May 2014 8.45pm)

Only in your dreams. Countries use tariff barriers to protect their own economies and always have. That means that we cannot compete if a country or trading bloc (i.e. the EU) places tariffs on our goods.

That is why the current GATT negotiations have been running for over 20 years without resolution and our ability to export to the US and other countries is severely restricted in a whole range of goods.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think we can just carry on trading with zero tariffs without accepting what goes with it.

It is perfectly possible to construct a reasonable argument for us to leave the EU but you do need some basic degree of understanding of the issues in order to do it. Unfortunately you are not demonstrating that capacity.

We managed fine before we were in the EU when, as you say, tariffs existed.

We did, for a couple of hundred years, but that was because we had an Empire to trade with and we set the tariffs.

You may not have noticed, but we no longer have an Empire.

____________________________________

So we didn't trade at all before 1975?

Edited by kangel (18 May 2014 9.32pm)

Is that your answer to did we trade before 1975?

Yes. I am not paid to be your teacher.

I have already suggested some background reading for you, but, in hindsight, it was probably a bit advanced.

Can I recommend the Ladybird Book of British History and a very good read called 'Janet and John's Guide to the Principles of Economics and Trade'.

Happy reading

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)