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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 davenotamonkey  03 May 17 1.00am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
How could it get to that and how could the Leave nor Remain campaign keep us in the dark if that is true and our obliged financial commitments are 100bn euros? We can't walk. We owe what we owe. It will make us a bad credit risk going out into the big world. This stinks. Because they are plucking figures out of their arses. "Has anyone asked them to?" (account for how they arrived at that figure) Are you saying, when presented with a huge invoice grossly at odds with your expectations, rather than requesting the full breakdown, you meekly lube up and pay it? Actually, I can believe you do.
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| matt_himself Matataland 03 May 17 6.09am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Because they are plucking figures out of their arses. "Has anyone asked them to?" (account for how they arrived at that figure) Are you saying, when presented with a huge invoice grossly at odds with your expectations, rather than requesting the full breakdown, you meekly lube up and pay it? Actually, I can believe you do. Completely agree. The EU are pulling figures from their arse for their own purposes, which at the moment are interfering with the UK General Election. The Insitute for Government covers the matter in the most impartial manner I have found: Including the interesting line that the UK government appears to have a strong legal case for not paying any settlement and that the final amount will come down to politics. The EU will have a serious budget shortfall when the UK leaves. Of course they are going to try and squeeze as much out of us as they can and use this matter, on which they appear to have little legal foundation, to disrupt negotiations. Good old EU. Such a decent, honest and not devious organisation. Why did we ever vote to leave?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Kermit8  Hevon 03 May 17 6.49am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Because they are plucking figures out of their arses. "Has anyone asked them to?" (account for how they arrived at that figure) Are you saying, when presented with a huge invoice grossly at odds with your expectations, rather than requesting the full breakdown, you meekly lube up and pay it? Actually, I can believe you do. So, basically, you have no idea, not a clue, about the legitimacy of the 'damage' and whether the figures are correct. Sounds about right. Oh, and we haven't been 'invoiced' yet so requests at how they arrived at unverified, unofficial figures would be jumping the gun and make us look stupid. Still, I wouldn't put it past Brexiteers to demand right now something they haven't got. Edited by Kermit8 (03 May 2017 6.53am)
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| matt_himself Matataland 03 May 17 6.53am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
So, basically, you have no idea, not a clue, about the legitimacy of the 'damage' and whether the figures are correct. Sounds about right. Oh, and we haven't been 'invoiced' yet so requests at how they arrived at the unverified figures would be jumping the gun and make us seem even more stupid. Still, I wouldn't put it past Brexiteers to demand right now something they haven't got. Edited by Kermit8 (03 May 2017 6.51am) But neither do you Michael, nott anyone else for that matter. Again, read this:
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 03 May 17 7.11am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
But neither do you Michael, nott anyone else for that matter. Again, read this: An excellent read indeed and although it broadens the picture it still doesn't, and it is being honest, make for 'good news'. We can't not pay what we rightfully owe even if we can squirm out legally. The fallout would be more destructive than the alternative. Credit rating and trustworthiness would take a hit. The Government should refuse all-out to the demand of a one-off payment though and insist the various financial commitments are spread out.
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| davenotamonkey 03 May 17 7.39am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
So, basically, you have no idea, not a clue, about the legitimacy of the 'damage' and whether the figures are correct. Sounds about right. Oh, and we haven't been 'invoiced' yet so requests at how they arrived at unverified, unofficial figures would be jumping the gun and make us look stupid. Still, I wouldn't put it past Brexiteers to demand right now something they haven't got. Edited by Kermit8 (03 May 2017 6.53am) Unverified, unofficial figures quoted by (among many others), and derived from the EU Commission? Figures that can vary by as much as a factor of 2? When I was a kid, I had to show my working. Then again, the EU does have problems "showing it's working", as auditors will attest to since 1995. The reason why we've not been "invoiced" yet, that reason why negotiations haven't started yet, is because we all need to wait for Queen Merkel of Europe's next coronation. Because the EU is basically Germany. Until then, they'll do their best to undermine our election, show the world their petty, vindictive, fiscally irresponsible side, and break the very treaties they hold so very dear. Given that Juncker states the negotiation positions will necessarily have to be clear and transparent, I wonder why it's "so stupid" that they publish how they arrived at this fantasy-land figure? Oh, yes. Brexiteers are completely unhinged from reality to "demand" from the claimants the basis of the claim. "They haven't got" that yet? So presumably the figures are just plucked out of Juncker's arse then. You will be finding yourself in an ever-vanishing minority venerating a hostile, petulant and unreasonable side that seeks out "punishment beatings" as a means to exercise unaccountable power over supposedly sovereign countries, and those that seek to escape an abusive relationship. Enjoy it. I'll be over here, on the right side of history.
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| matt_himself Matataland 03 May 17 7.40am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
An excellent read indeed and although it broadens the picture it still doesn't, and it is being honest, make for 'good news'. We can't not pay what we rightfully owe even if we can squirm out legally. The fallout would be more destructive than the alternative. Credit rating and trustworthiness would take a hit. The Government should refuse all-out to the demand of a one-off payment though and insist the various financial commitments are spread out. You did read the part about how the government have legal advice that any 'divorce bill' is not legally binding and that it will all come down to politics? It won't affect credit ratings if it is not legally enforceable. Both the PM and the Chancellor have said we will apart what is rightfully owed. I don't know where you are getting this notion that the government will 'squirm' from debt.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 03 May 17 8.20am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
You did read the part about how the government have legal advice that any 'divorce bill' is not legally binding and that it will all come down to politics? It won't affect credit ratings if it is not legally enforceable. Both the PM and the Chancellor have said we will apart what is rightfully owed. I don't know where you are getting this notion that the government will 'squirm' from debt. I did. And you don't strike me as the kind of guy who would get out of paying signed-up to bills through legal loopholes. I don't believe for the good of the country going into the future we should not fulfil our obligations because we can get out of it. I sincerely believe it will affect our standing should we 'welch' - "you can't trust the British" etc - and help drag ourselves backwards. As it stands if we can get out with a £40bill or so hit that would be preferable to the what would be imo worse alternatives Edited by Kermit8 (03 May 2017 8.22am)
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| legaleagle 03 May 17 8.55am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
You did read the part about how the government have legal advice that any 'divorce bill' is not legally binding and that it will all come down to politics? It won't affect credit ratings if it is not legally enforceable. Both the PM and the Chancellor have said we will apart what is rightfully owed. I don't know where you are getting this notion that the government will 'squirm' from debt. Was that the same Government legal advice that said the Supreme Court would rule in favour of the Government rather than Fiona Miller?
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europalace  Europe 03 May 17 9.50am |
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€100bn? Wow, the UK should pay up and of course it will pay up but not admit to paying up, same old, same old, never ever admitting it makes a mistake. Even if the economy goes into more of a tail spin, the UK will never admit it and paint a 'rosy' picture on anything. A country can never move on until it admits its mistakes.
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| matt_himself Matataland 03 May 17 9.59am |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Was that the same Government legal advice that said the Supreme Court would rule in favour of the Government rather than Fiona Miller? Who is Fiona Miller?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| matt_himself Matataland 03 May 17 10.05am |
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Originally posted by europalace
€100bn? Wow, the UK should pay up and of course it will pay up but not admit to paying up, same old, same old, never ever admitting it makes a mistake. Even if the economy goes into more of a tail spin, the UK will never admit it and paint a 'rosy' picture on anything. A country can never move on until it admits its mistakes. As a resident, and presumably taxpayer, in a Euro denominated country, you must be delighted with the effective leadership the EU has shown in resolving the Greek economic decisively and effectively. Why have one bailout when you can have many? Why also not cut off an economy for the drip feeding of taxpayers because it is a complete waste of money continue doing so? Could it be because of a perceive overriding necessity to continue the social and economic engineering job that is the Euro? How are you enjoying this 'rosy' scenario and seeing your tax Euros end up in the pockets of Greeks, whom have retired at 55?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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