IS Schoolgirl wants to come home

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IS Schoolgirl wants to come home

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dreamwaverider London 26 Feb 21 1.03pm
Originally posted by Matov I genuinely sympathise and share every single part of your ire with her and struggle to counter any one of your points, all of which I fully understand you holding, beyond the issue that we have 18 as the age of majority. For me, it really is that horribly simple. My view is not one that I am happy with and I express it with teeth gritted but I simply cannot countenance a state system being able to withdraw citizenship from somebody born in this country based on decisions they made under the age of majority. Matov you put forward a very compelling argument in your posts. However it is clearly a view that the Supreme Court do not share. Do you know why?
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dreamwaverider

London 26 Feb 21 1.03pm

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Originally posted by Matov

I genuinely sympathise and share every single part of your ire with her and struggle to counter any one of your points, all of which I fully understand you holding, beyond the issue that we have 18 as the age of majority.

For me, it really is that horribly simple. My view is not one that I am happy with and I express it with teeth gritted but I simply cannot countenance a state system being able to withdraw citizenship from somebody born in this country based on decisions they made under the age of majority.

Matov you put forward a very compelling argument in your posts. However it is clearly a view that the Supreme Court do not share.
Do you know why?

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Matov 26 Feb 21 1.04pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The British legal systems highest court denying the right to a fair hearing. I was surprised, I must admit. I really struggle with the notion that the Government can take away somebody's citizenship based on their actions before the age of majority. It strikes me as a massive over-reach of power and sets a worrying precedent. This is why I think everybody on the Right needs to step back and ask if we really want Government to hold these kinds of powers. Edited by Matov (26 Feb 2021 1.05pm) "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Feb 21 1.04pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The British legal systems highest court denying the right to a fair hearing.

I was surprised, I must admit. I really struggle with the notion that the Government can take away somebody's citizenship based on their actions before the age of majority.

It strikes me as a massive over-reach of power and sets a worrying precedent. This is why I think everybody on the Right needs to step back and ask if we really want Government to hold these kinds of powers.

Edited by Matov (26 Feb 2021 1.05pm)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Matov 26 Feb 21 1.12pm
Originally posted by dreamwaverider Matov you put forward a very compelling argument in your posts. However it is clearly a view that the Supreme Court do not share. Do you know why? I believe it is based on the assessment of her as still posing a threat to the UK. Which I don't necessarily disagree with, hence why my own preferred option would be to initially return her to an overseas military base so she could be assessed. Letting her just fly back into the UK would be madness. But let's not forget there are plenty of people walking about in the UK who also went and fought/supported IS and then made their own way back. The question has to be why they are allowed to do so, especially since many did so when over the age of 18? Those are the ones I would be stripping citizenship/right to remain from without a second thought. My own disquiet is based on the premise around the Government being able to act as it has against somebody due to decisions they made under the age of 18. Does not sit well with me in the slightest and why I try not to be emotive about this case. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

26 Feb 21 1.12pm

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

Matov you put forward a very compelling argument in your posts. However it is clearly a view that the Supreme Court do not share.
Do you know why?

I believe it is based on the assessment of her as still posing a threat to the UK. Which I don't necessarily disagree with, hence why my own preferred option would be to initially return her to an overseas military base so she could be assessed. Letting her just fly back into the UK would be madness.

But let's not forget there are plenty of people walking about in the UK who also went and fought/supported IS and then made their own way back. The question has to be why they are allowed to do so, especially since many did so when over the age of 18? Those are the ones I would be stripping citizenship/right to remain from without a second thought.

My own disquiet is based on the premise around the Government being able to act as it has against somebody due to decisions they made under the age of 18. Does not sit well with me in the slightest and why I try not to be emotive about this case.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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orpingtoneagle Orpington 26 Feb 21 1.36pm
She was groomed - just as much as any youngster is groomed for any purpose. She was groomed in the UK and as such I would suggest she is at least in part our problem. We should deal with our problems not simply wash our hands of them.
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orpingtoneagle

Orpington 26 Feb 21 1.36pm

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She was groomed - just as much as any youngster is groomed for any purpose.

She was groomed in the UK and as such I would suggest she is at least in part our problem. We should deal with our problems not simply wash our hands of them.

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kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 26 Feb 21 2.38pm
good riddance to bad rubbish. Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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kingdowieonthewall

Sussex, ex-Cronx. 26 Feb 21 2.38pm

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good riddance to bad rubbish.

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 26 Feb 21 2.51pm
will our resident lefty Troll be coming along to accuse us all of being racists ? nothing to do with the heinous crimes of isis or anything like that. i think Begum should be let into the UK and forced to live near the parents of the kids killed at the Manchester Concert. That might put manners on her. When a referee issues an early yellow card, it puts manners on all future play. Other idiot-girls, now aged 12 , need to see an example made of Begum.....or they will follow in her footsteps. Edited by PalazioVecchio (26 Feb 2021 3.18pm) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 26 Feb 21 2.51pm

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will our resident lefty Troll be coming along to accuse us all of being racists ?

nothing to do with the heinous crimes of isis or anything like that.

i think Begum should be let into the UK and forced to live near the parents of the kids killed at the Manchester Concert. That might put manners on her.

When a referee issues an early yellow card, it puts manners on all future play. Other idiot-girls, now aged 12 , need to see an example made of Begum.....or they will follow in her footsteps.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (26 Feb 2021 3.18pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Spiderman Horsham 26 Feb 21 4.12pm
I understand everyone’s views on this as it is very emotive, especially as she was 15. Interesting to know people’s views on, if she was to return and charged with joining a terrorist organisation ( if that is a charge), and face a long prison term would this be ok? She was a minor when she first joined so would be tried as a juvenile? Not much of a punishment
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Spiderman

Horsham 26 Feb 21 4.12pm

I understand everyone’s views on this as it is very emotive, especially as she was 15.
Interesting to know people’s views on, if she was to return and charged with joining a terrorist organisation ( if that is a charge), and face a long prison term would this be ok? She was a minor when she first joined so would be tried as a juvenile? Not much of a punishment

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Spiderman Horsham 26 Feb 21 4.13pm
Originally posted by orpingtoneagle She was groomed - just as much as any youngster is groomed for any purpose. She was groomed in the UK and as such I would suggest she is at least in part our problem. We should deal with our problems not simply wash our hands of them. Or we could ignore her like those groomed by gangs here
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Spiderman

Horsham 26 Feb 21 4.13pm

Originally posted by orpingtoneagle

She was groomed - just as much as any youngster is groomed for any purpose.

She was groomed in the UK and as such I would suggest she is at least in part our problem. We should deal with our problems not simply wash our hands of them.

Or we could ignore her like those groomed by gangs here

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Spiderman Horsham 26 Feb 21 4.18pm
Originally posted by Matov I believe it is based on the assessment of her as still posing a threat to the UK. Which I don't necessarily disagree with, hence why my own preferred option would be to initially return her to an overseas military base so she could be assessed. Letting her just fly back into the UK would be madness. But let's not forget there are plenty of people walking about in the UK who also went and fought/supported IS and then made their own way back. The question has to be why they are allowed to do so, especially since many did so when over the age of 18? Those are the ones I would be stripping citizenship/right to remain from without a second thought. My own disquiet is based on the premise around the Government being able to act as it has against somebody due to decisions they made under the age of 18. Does not sit well with me in the slightest and why I try not to be emotive about this case. I honestly believe the Security Services know more about this person and her activities than they are letting on
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Spiderman

Horsham 26 Feb 21 4.18pm

Originally posted by Matov

I honestly believe the Security Services know more about this person and her activities than they are letting on

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jeeagles 26 Feb 21 4.40pm
Originally posted by Spiderman I honestly believe the Security Services know more about this person and her activities than they are letting on Could probably say that about anyone! Society is fragile. If someone wants to opt out of our system then that's fine. Just don't expect to opt back into it when it suits you. As for the claim she was groomed, getting gifts from Jimmy Saville is one thing, fleeing the country and flying half way round the world to join a terrorist organisation is another. She doesn't get to come back.
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jeeagles

26 Feb 21 4.40pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

I honestly believe the Security Services know more about this person and her activities than they are letting on

Could probably say that about anyone!

Society is fragile. If someone wants to opt out of our system then that's fine. Just don't expect to opt back into it when it suits you.

As for the claim she was groomed, getting gifts from Jimmy Saville is one thing, fleeing the country and flying half way round the world to join a terrorist organisation is another.

She doesn't get to come back.

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 26 Feb 21 5.00pm
Originally posted by Spiderman I understand everyone’s views on this as it is very emotive, especially as she was 15. Interesting to know people’s views on, if she was to return and charged with joining a terrorist organisation ( if that is a charge), and face a long prison term would this be ok? She was a minor when she first joined so would be tried as a juvenile? Not much of a punishment Short answer Spidey . . . NO. Why should the British taxpayer fork out for food/clothing/TV/internet etc etc. She can stay where she is as far as im concerned & i really dont give a flying shyte that she was 'only' 15 when she made a conscious decision to fcuk off to Syria to breed & join in killing UK citizens. This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 26 Feb 21 5.00pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Short answer Spidey . . . NO. Why should the British taxpayer fork out for food/clothing/TV/internet etc etc. She can stay where she is as far as im concerned & i really dont give a flying shyte that she was 'only' 15 when she made a conscious decision to fcuk off to Syria to breed & join in killing UK citizens.

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 26 Feb 21 5.06pm
Originally posted by eagleman13 Short answer Spidey . . . NO. Why should the British taxpayer fork out for food/clothing/TV/internet etc etc. She can stay where she is as far as im concerned & i really dont give a flying shyte that she was 'only' 15 when she made a conscious decision to fcuk off to Syria to breed & join in killing UK citizens. Spot on. In addition to the good points you make, it also sends out a strong message to anyone else thinking of doing this. Instead of spending all this time and money arguing about someone who declared herself an enemy of our country and our way of life, why not focus on looking after our own people, particularly people in need of help like many of our elderly are. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 26 Feb 21 5.06pm

Originally posted by eagleman13

Spot on.

In addition to the good points you make, it also sends out a strong message to anyone else thinking of doing this.

Instead of spending all this time and money arguing about someone who declared herself an enemy of our country and our way of life, why not focus on looking after our own people, particularly people in need of help like many of our elderly are.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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