This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Southern Rail Strike - right or wrong
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
 npn  Crowborough 20 Dec 16 10.09am |
  |
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by 7mins
Right, if you're speaking about separate unions and companies that have had industrial action in other parts of the country then I will bow to your superior knowledge. But, drivers on southern (and previous incarnations) haven't been on strike in 20years. Which makes you think, that they're not the militants that the Tory government say they are. You must accept, surely, that to the suffering commuters a strike is a strike is a strike? If the RMT closed down the tubes because closing ticket offices on the underground was 'unsafe' there is more than a little correlation to the RMT closing down the overground because it's unsafe - that's my point. The operator involved is completely irrelevant - it's a train, and the RMT have shut it down, that's all we see. I've already accepted that I lean towards the union in this particular case, but my point is that the RMT say any change is unsafe - it's their default position, so now that they actually have a very good point, they can hardly be surprised that the general public are not very good at listening to it any more.
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
  |
| Part Time James 20 Dec 16 10.30am |
|
|---|---|
|
The one service that hasn't been disrupted during all this, is this thread.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| 7mins In the bush 20 Dec 16 10.50am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by npn
You must accept, surely, that to the suffering commuters a strike is a strike is a strike? If the RMT closed down the tubes because closing ticket offices on the underground was 'unsafe' there is more than a little correlation to the RMT closing down the overground because it's unsafe - that's my point. The operator involved is completely irrelevant - it's a train, and the RMT have shut it down, that's all we see. I've already accepted that I lean towards the union in this particular case, but my point is that the RMT say any change is unsafe - it's their default position, so now that they actually have a very good point, they can hardly be surprised that the general public are not very good at listening to it any more.
I think commuters get a raw deal..Southern knew the unions were against the changes, so from the outside looking in, I can't understand their refusal to speak to drivers. Although the dft's Peter Wilkinson speech about smashing the unions now makes more sense.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| npn Crowborough 20 Dec 16 11.22am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by 7mins
I think commuters get a raw deal..Southern knew the unions were against the changes, so from the outside looking in, I can't understand their refusal to speak to drivers. Although the dft's Peter Wilkinson speech about smashing the unions now makes more sense. But according to Nick, when the union talks about bringing down the government, that's just rhetoric and not to be taken seriously, yet when the government talk about bringing down the unions, it's to be taken as gospel. It's that kind of cherry picking of arguments that leads to people just not listening any more - both sides are as bad as each other, which is why when the union says "it's not safe, honest" they're no longer taken at face value. I just want a train service!
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
tome  Inner Tantalus Time. 20 Dec 16 11.35am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by npn
But according to Nick, when the union talks about bringing down the government, that's just rhetoric and not to be taken seriously, yet when the government talk about bringing down the unions, it's to be taken as gospel. It's that kind of cherry picking of arguments that leads to people just not listening any more - both sides are as bad as each other, which is why when the union says "it's not safe, honest" they're no longer taken at face value. I just want a train service! Agreed but I think the point is that both can be true. I can well imagine that both the DFT and the leadership of the unions have political motivations. However, I doubt that the average train driver gives much of a stuff about politics, they just want to be able to do their job. As you say, the union's previous record in crying wolf probably plays against it - as you'll have seen, most of the hostility is directed at the union. Seems they have a reasonable safety case this time though, no oen wants to be the one dragged along a platform by their coat because a driver can't see.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| npn Crowborough 20 Dec 16 11.56am |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by tome
Agreed but I think the point is that both can be true. I can well imagine that both the DFT and the leadership of the unions have political motivations. However, I doubt that the average train driver gives much of a stuff about politics, they just want to be able to do their job. As you say, the union's previous record in crying wolf probably plays against it - as you'll have seen, most of the hostility is directed at the union. Seems they have a reasonable safety case this time though, no oen wants to be the one dragged along a platform by their coat because a driver can't see. I totally agree. BTW thanks - I thought I was failing to get my point across, and you've put it far better than me: I actually believe the union this time, but I totally understand why people won't (or possibly won't even listen) because of the cr@p they've come out with to support action in the past. I'm not pro-government OR pro-union, I'm pro-getting the bloody thing sorted out!
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Dec 16 1.11pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by npn
But according to Nick, when the union talks about bringing down the government, that's just rhetoric and not to be taken seriously, yet when the government talk about bringing down the unions, it's to be taken as gospel. It's that kind of cherry picking of arguments that leads to people just not listening any more - both sides are as bad as each other, which is why when the union says "it's not safe, honest" they're no longer taken at face value. I just want a train service! Hmm its almost as if each different group involved has a different agenda. In truth, none of the Unions really have the power these days to bring down a government without prolonged strike action. That said, successive governments have proposed and implemented legislation aimed at weakening the influence and power of unions, mostly aimed at breaking their capacity to influence negotiations and represent members.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stuk Top half 20 Dec 16 3.39pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by 7mins
Right, if you're speaking about separate unions and companies that have had industrial action in other parts of the country then I will bow to your superior knowledge. But, drivers on southern (and previous incarnations) haven't been on strike in 20years. Which makes you think, that they're not the militants that the Tory government say they are. We haven't had a tory government for 18 years prior to the last general election.
Optimistic as ever |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Kermit8  Hevon 20 Dec 16 3.41pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stuk
We haven't had a tory government for 18 years prior to the last general election.
Big chest and massive boobs |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Kermit8 Hevon 20 Dec 16 3.43pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Stuk
We haven't had a tory government for 18 years prior to the last general election. oh, and the Conservatives were the Party of Government from 2010-2015 alongside some other minor lot whose name escapes me now.
Big chest and massive boobs |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stuk Top half 20 Dec 16 3.53pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Hmm its almost as if each different group involved has a different agenda. In truth, none of the Unions really have the power these days to bring down a government without prolonged strike action. That said, successive governments have proposed and implemented legislation aimed at weakening the influence and power of unions, mostly aimed at breaking their capacity to influence negotiations and represent members. They shouldn't be able to even try and bring down a government, they don't represent the majority of people or the majority of voters.
Optimistic as ever |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stuk Top half 20 Dec 16 3.56pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Originally posted by Kermit8
oh, and the Conservatives were the Party of Government from 2010-2015 alongside some other minor lot whose name escapes me now. You can't be the party of government in a coalition. The clue is in the word.
Optimistic as ever |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.