Dismiss? No. Treat with scepticism and suspicion? Yes. Certainly on its own and without supporting evidence! If part of a general trend, a piece of a big jigsaw, then it could have its use. As a stand alone it’s worthless.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Right. And what's the next step toward this brave new world?

For people to become involved in politics, demanding change where they see change is needed.

Much as I disliked the idea that lay behind UKIP I admired the fact that it sprung from nothing to exert enough influence to bring about change. The problem with UKIP was that there was no counter movement effectively putting the argument against and you can see why. Defending the status quo is not sexy.

This is already happening with progressive groups successfully agitating for change in a modern world. The problem is they are doing it within yesterday’s system, which is no longer fit for purpose. The SNP emerged to dominate Scottish politics. Now we need new parties to emerge for the UK as a whole. Neither the Tories nor Labour seem capable of reinventing themselves in a way which could bring the changes needed.

The Tories seem doomed to fade to become a pale shadow of what they have been. Labour also carry too much baggage. We need fringe parties of both the left and right but more than anything else we need a genuine party of the centre, holding things together on a steady course and being the dominant senior partner in future coalition governments.

Many posters here would hate it. I don’t expect to see it in my lifetime but I do hope to at least see the green shoots of the argument for it emerging from the mess of the coming years. Along with us rejoining the EU in some way of course. There is every reason for optimism. Today’s youth are much more progressive and in tune with these ideas than the kind of ideas that dominate these pages and it’s today’s youth who are the future. Not old b*ggers like me.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

“What can you do, thought Winston, against the lunatic who gives your arguments a fair hearing and then simply persists in his lunacy?” [Orwell, 1984]

Edited by georgenorman (25 Mar 2024 8.28am)

Bosh!

That's where much of my perception of, and contempt for them, originates.

Watching the politicians we have try and sort out some of the mess in this country, particularly socially, feels akin to witnessing an Amish community running the Data and Technology function in a business.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

I interpret them all as being, at best, mediocre individuals pursuing their own egos to escape the mediocrity within which they exist.

They neither care for nor have the capability to pursue the best interests of the country. There is quite a clear career path outlined for most of them originating in their schooling. This is why so few if any at all actually stand on moralistic or ideological principle and the 'democratic choice' we supposedly have feels increasingly a mirage.

The cliché of 'not believing a word a politician says' seems more pertinent now than ever.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!