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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 10 Aug 15 5.35pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK. Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy
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Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 10 Aug 15 5.35pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK.

Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy

Alert a moderator to this post

matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 15 5.50pm
Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK. Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy Careful with your examples. HSBC are now likely to stay headquarter in hte UK due to the replacement of the bank regulator, easing of over regulation, a change in dynamic in the management of the company with the chairman assuming more executive power who is pro UK and concerns over political risk in HK. I never said Osbourne ran a planned economy. Where did you get that nonsense from? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 10 Aug 15 5.50pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK.

Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy

Careful with your examples. HSBC are now likely to stay headquarter in hte UK due to the replacement of the bank regulator, easing of over regulation, a change in dynamic in the management of the company with the chairman assuming more executive power who is pro UK and concerns over political risk in HK.

I never said Osbourne ran a planned economy. Where did you get that nonsense from?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 15 5.53pm
Quote ghosteagle at 10 Aug 2015 2.44pm Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 2.24pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 11.18am Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 10.01am Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 9.41am What Fascism is and isn't [Link] A good starting point. Its often a mistake to see National Socialism (Nazism and Communism as fascist). I view Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela and Zimbabwe as totalitarian states who use many of the methods and theories described in your link. I am sure you will draw on subtle differences between the states and totalitarianism in its pure, theoretic terms but broad brushing it, you have to admit that the above States operate in a style and mechanism akin to fascism. Therefore, what is the difference in practice between a left wing and right extremist single party state? People get massacred in both. Democracy is purged in both. Individualism and liberty of thought is purged. Power is concentrated to a circle of the elite. The institutions of such a country become the tools of the government to use to suppress opposition. The economy is centrally planned and controlled. Free enterprise is deemed as a parasitic endeavour in both. Edited by matt_himself (10 Aug 2015 10.15am) The ideology and the rhetoric. Cuba, for example, and for whatever view you may personally have of it in terms of freedom, places a very significant emphasis on the provision of its people, as opposed to the nation state (standards of health provision and education in Cuba massively exceed that of most similar third world countries). Cuba, spent most of its existence as part of the Soviet satellite state, and engages in internationalism which isn't typically a fascist trait - Nationalism isn't that much of a tennet in Soviet or Cuban politics. Communism and fascism (and especially National Socialism) have a lot of shared ideology (as fascism originated as a response to the appeal of communism), what tends to differ is the organization of the state and itsbody politic, the political rhetoric and probably most notably how those bodies of state function, rather than its actions. Both Fascism and Socialism place great emphasis on the power of unions as a means of protecting the working class, the difference is that in socialism, those organizations are formed and directed for the working class, where as in fascism they serve the state directly. Whilst it can seem that's the same thing, its worth remembering that in Poland the rise of Solidarity stems from the Unions against the Polish communist state - similarly Union and state factions in both Hungary and Chechslovakia were instrumental in the both famous uprisings. In Zimbabwe, there was the movement of reclaiming land, not for the state, but for the black farmers from private ownership (a disaster). In the way that the term fascism gets used in general life, somewhat ignorantly, it could be applied to both Soviet style communism, Chinese State communism, Spanish Falangism, Pan Arabic Baathism or Argentinian Juntas; but there are very significant differences (notably in the internal politics and power structure). Also, traditionally both Communism and Fascism are 'opposed forces'. Similarly one could look a Capitalist Democracies and label them the same, but when you look internally you see a big difference in terms of structure and organization, as well as orientation, whilst obstentially championing many of the same causes and ideals. I think you are lookin at things through your red glasses and your obvious admiration for 'benevolent' Cuba is at odds with the reality of the regimes treatment of the 'people'. The fact is that the 'people's regime' is just a glossy veneer which hides the fact that the tolatarian regime suppressed and murdered at will yet dressed it up as a Workers Paradise to give it credibility with and receive sympathy from those around the World who swallow this. This is just the same glossy veneer the Nazi's sold to elements of the European aristocracy in the 1930's. To me they are two sides of he same coin and no sane person would support or defend either murderous regime, regardless of the rhetorical or ideological spin either was dressed up as. Edited by matt_himself (10 Aug 2015 2.26pm) Who needs history and facts when you have an opinion eh? Keep up the good work. If you wish to challenge what I have said, please do so. Please provide facts and evidence and destroy my argument. Hiding behind psuedo cryptic insults makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about Edited by matt_himself (10 Aug 2015 5.57pm) "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 10 Aug 15 5.53pm

Quote ghosteagle at 10 Aug 2015 2.44pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 2.24pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 11.18am

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 10.01am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 9.41am

What Fascism is and isn't

[Link]

A good starting point.

Its often a mistake to see National Socialism (Nazism and Communism as fascist).

I view Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela and Zimbabwe as totalitarian states who use many of the methods and theories described in your link. I am sure you will draw on subtle differences between the states and totalitarianism in its pure, theoretic terms but broad brushing it, you have to admit that the above States operate in a style and mechanism akin to fascism.

Therefore, what is the difference in practice between a left wing and right extremist single party state?

People get massacred in both. Democracy is purged in both. Individualism and liberty of thought is purged. Power is concentrated to a circle of the elite. The institutions of such a country become the tools of the government to use to suppress opposition. The economy is centrally planned and controlled. Free enterprise is deemed as a parasitic endeavour in both.

Edited by matt_himself (10 Aug 2015 10.15am)

The ideology and the rhetoric. Cuba, for example, and for whatever view you may personally have of it in terms of freedom, places a very significant emphasis on the provision of its people, as opposed to the nation state (standards of health provision and education in Cuba massively exceed that of most similar third world countries).

Cuba, spent most of its existence as part of the Soviet satellite state, and engages in internationalism which isn't typically a fascist trait - Nationalism isn't that much of a tennet in Soviet or Cuban politics.

Communism and fascism (and especially National Socialism) have a lot of shared ideology (as fascism originated as a response to the appeal of communism), what tends to differ is the organization of the state and itsbody politic, the political rhetoric and probably most notably how those bodies of state function, rather than its actions. Both Fascism and Socialism place great emphasis on the power of unions as a means of protecting the working class, the difference is that in socialism, those organizations are formed and directed for the working class, where as in fascism they serve the state directly.

Whilst it can seem that's the same thing, its worth remembering that in Poland the rise of Solidarity stems from the Unions against the Polish communist state - similarly Union and state factions in both Hungary and Chechslovakia were instrumental in the both famous uprisings.

In Zimbabwe, there was the movement of reclaiming land, not for the state, but for the black farmers from private ownership (a disaster).

In the way that the term fascism gets used in general life, somewhat ignorantly, it could be applied to both Soviet style communism, Chinese State communism, Spanish Falangism, Pan Arabic Baathism or Argentinian Juntas; but there are very significant differences (notably in the internal politics and power structure). Also, traditionally both Communism and Fascism are 'opposed forces'.

Similarly one could look a Capitalist Democracies and label them the same, but when you look internally you see a big difference in terms of structure and organization, as well as orientation, whilst obstentially championing many of the same causes and ideals.

I think you are lookin at things through your red glasses and your obvious admiration for 'benevolent' Cuba is at odds with the reality of the regimes treatment of the 'people'.

The fact is that the 'people's regime' is just a glossy veneer which hides the fact that the tolatarian regime suppressed and murdered at will yet dressed it up as a Workers Paradise to give it credibility with and receive sympathy from those around the World who swallow this.

This is just the same glossy veneer the Nazi's sold to elements of the European aristocracy in the 1930's.

To me they are two sides of he same coin and no sane person would support or defend either murderous regime, regardless of the rhetorical or ideological spin either was dressed up as.

Edited by matt_himself (10 Aug 2015 2.26pm)

Who needs history and facts when you have an opinion eh? Keep up the good work.

If you wish to challenge what I have said, please do so. Please provide facts and evidence and destroy my argument.

Hiding behind psuedo cryptic insults makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about

Edited by matt_himself (10 Aug 2015 5.57pm)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Stirlingsays 10 Aug 15 8.16pm
Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK. Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy It's the bank of Hong Kong anyway...Maybe that's where their headquarters should be.....If they do leave they are taking a huge gamble on Chinese stability. Regardless anyone making a comparison here with the UK is surely not being serious. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Aug 15 8.16pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm

Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK.

Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy

It's the bank of Hong Kong anyway...Maybe that's where their headquarters should be.....If they do leave they are taking a huge gamble on Chinese stability.

Regardless anyone making a comparison here with the UK is surely not being serious.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 10 Aug 15 8.25pm
Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.50pm Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK. Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy Careful with your examples. HSBC are now likely to stay headquarter in hte UK due to the replacement of the bank regulator, easing of over regulation, a change in dynamic in the management of the company with the chairman assuming more executive power who is pro UK and concerns over political risk in HK. I never said Osbourne ran a planned economy. Where did you get that nonsense from? You were making reference to international companies leaving Brazil and quoting HSBC as an example. My response was that they are doing the same here so hardly a unique comment on Brazil is it
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Sedlescombe

Sedlescombe 10 Aug 15 8.25pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.50pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK.

Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy

I never said Osbourne ran a planned economy. Where did you get that nonsense from?

You were making reference to international companies leaving Brazil and quoting HSBC as an example. My response was that they are doing the same here so hardly a unique comment on Brazil is it

Alert a moderator to this post

matt_himself Matataland 11 Aug 15 7.30am
Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 8.25pm Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.50pm Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK. Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy Careful with your examples. HSBC are now likely to stay headquarter in hte UK due to the replacement of the bank regulator, easing of over regulation, a change in dynamic in the management of the company with the chairman assuming more executive power who is pro UK and concerns over political risk in HK. I never said Osbourne ran a planned economy. Where did you get that nonsense from? You were making reference to international companies leaving Brazil and quoting HSBC as an example. My response was that they are doing the same here so hardly a unique comment on Brazil is it Should HSBC choose to move headquarters, they will not exit the UK totally. They will still have a big presence in the form of investment banking before the question of whether they sell their retail arm comes up. HSBC have completely exited Brazil. Edited by matt_himself (11 Aug 2015 7.31am) "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 11 Aug 15 7.30am

Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 8.25pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.50pm

Quote Sedlescombe at 10 Aug 2015 5.35pm

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

Careful with your examples. HSBC are also well down the path of exiting the UK as well. They are likely to sell what used to be Midland and move HQ to HK.

Don't think anyone would accuse Osborne of running a planned economy

I never said Osbourne ran a planned economy. Where did you get that nonsense from?

You were making reference to international companies leaving Brazil and quoting HSBC as an example. My response was that they are doing the same here so hardly a unique comment on Brazil is it

Should HSBC choose to move headquarters, they will not exit the UK totally. They will still have a big presence in the form of investment banking before the question of whether they sell their retail arm comes up.

HSBC have completely exited Brazil.

Edited by matt_himself (11 Aug 2015 7.31am)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Aug 15 8.59am
Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. No I was being flippant and paraphrasing the rhetoric of another poster. It would be curious as to why 'big business' would be in a quasi communist planned economy, which spent a lot of its time dancing on the far right of the political spectrum. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 11 Aug 15 8.59am

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

No I was being flippant and paraphrasing the rhetoric of another poster. It would be curious as to why 'big business' would be in a quasi communist planned economy, which spent a lot of its time dancing on the far right of the political spectrum.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 11 Aug 15 9.14am
Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. No I was being flippant and paraphrasing the rhetoric of another poster. It would be curious as to why 'big business' would be in a quasi communist planned economy, which spent a lot of its time dancing on the far right of the political spectrum. The same reason business goes to China or India or Russia for that matter. The regimes may not be he most friendly to business but there is money to be made and elements of the regime in question may be more supportive of enterprise than others. However, the only way to find out is to be there but the level of the investment needs to be carefully considered before being implemented. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 11 Aug 15 9.14am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

The same reason business goes to China or India or Russia for that matter. The regimes may not be he most friendly to business but there is money to be made and elements of the regime in question may be more supportive of enterprise than others. However, the only way to find out is to be there but the level of the investment needs to be carefully considered before being implemented.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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jamiemartin721 Reading 11 Aug 15 12.21pm
Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 9.14am Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. No I was being flippant and paraphrasing the rhetoric of another poster. It would be curious as to why 'big business' would be in a quasi communist planned economy, which spent a lot of its time dancing on the far right of the political spectrum. The same reason business goes to China or India or Russia for that matter. The regimes may not be he most friendly to business but there is money to be made and elements of the regime in question may be more supportive of enterprise than others. However, the only way to find out is to be there but the level of the investment needs to be carefully considered before being implemented. So its ok for industry to migrate out of the country to benefit from cheap work force, but if they bring workers into the country that's unacceptable? Companies that upsticks and off shore are as much of a threat, if not more, to the wellbeing of the UK than people who come here and work. No one seems to think that the Government should be preventing that. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 11 Aug 15 12.21pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 9.14am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

So its ok for industry to migrate out of the country to benefit from cheap work force, but if they bring workers into the country that's unacceptable?

Companies that upsticks and off shore are as much of a threat, if not more, to the wellbeing of the UK than people who come here and work.

No one seems to think that the Government should be preventing that.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Alert a moderator to this post

matt_himself Matataland 11 Aug 15 12.40pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 12.21pm Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 9.14am Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. No I was being flippant and paraphrasing the rhetoric of another poster. It would be curious as to why 'big business' would be in a quasi communist planned economy, which spent a lot of its time dancing on the far right of the political spectrum. The same reason business goes to China or India or Russia for that matter. The regimes may not be he most friendly to business but there is money to be made and elements of the regime in question may be more supportive of enterprise than others. However, the only way to find out is to be there but the level of the investment needs to be carefully considered before being implemented. So its ok for industry to migrate out of the country to benefit from cheap work force, but if they bring workers into the country that's unacceptable? Companies that upsticks and off shore are as much of a threat, if not more, to the wellbeing of the UK than people who come here and work. No one seems to think that the Government should be preventing that. The above is nonsensical in the terms of this debate. No one has said that it is 'ok for business to move for cheap labour'. Where did that come from? In any case, as you have chosen this out of context line to take the debate, HSBC's reasons for exiting Brazil are not to do with cheap labour. It is largely to do with growth opportunities, the state of Brazil's economy and bureaucracy. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 11 Aug 15 12.40pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 12.21pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 9.14am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

So its ok for industry to migrate out of the country to benefit from cheap work force, but if they bring workers into the country that's unacceptable?

Companies that upsticks and off shore are as much of a threat, if not more, to the wellbeing of the UK than people who come here and work.

No one seems to think that the Government should be preventing that.

The above is nonsensical in the terms of this debate.

No one has said that it is 'ok for business to move for cheap labour'. Where did that come from?

In any case, as you have chosen this out of context line to take the debate, HSBC's reasons for exiting Brazil are not to do with cheap labour. It is largely to do with growth opportunities, the state of Brazil's economy and bureaucracy.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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ghosteagle 11 Aug 15 1.00pm
Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 12.40pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 12.21pm Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 9.14am Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm The Socialist Utopia of Cuba. [Link] Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor. Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'? It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party. Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so. No I was being flippant and paraphrasing the rhetoric of another poster. It would be curious as to why 'big business' would be in a quasi communist planned economy, which spent a lot of its time dancing on the far right of the political spectrum. The same reason business goes to China or India or Russia for that matter. The regimes may not be he most friendly to business but there is money to be made and elements of the regime in question may be more supportive of enterprise than others. However, the only way to find out is to be there but the level of the investment needs to be carefully considered before being implemented. So its ok for industry to migrate out of the country to benefit from cheap work force, but if they bring workers into the country that's unacceptable? Companies that upsticks and off shore are as much of a threat, if not more, to the wellbeing of the UK than people who come here and work. No one seems to think that the Government should be preventing that. The above is nonsensical in the terms of this debate. No one has said that it is 'ok for business to move for cheap labour'. Where did that come from? In any case, as you have chosen this out of context line to take the debate, HSBC's reasons for exiting Brazil are not to do with cheap labour. It is largely to do with growth opportunities, the state of Brazil's economy and bureaucracy. This is correct, falling economic inequality in Brazil has forced HSBC's hand.
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ghosteagle

11 Aug 15 1.00pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 12.40pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 12.21pm

Quote matt_himself at 11 Aug 2015 9.14am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 11 Aug 2015 8.59am

Quote matt_himself at 10 Aug 2015 5.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 10 Aug 2015 4.03pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 10 Aug 2015 2.31pm

The Socialist Utopia of Cuba.

[Link]

Still pretty decent for a third world country. The capitalist utopia of Brazil seems like a great place to be poor.

Do you truly believe that Brazil is a 'capitalist utopia'?

It's a quasi Communist planned economy and the country is led by Dilma Rousseff who heads up the Workers Party.

Big business is exiting the country on a daily basis. HSBC has become the most recent large corporate to do so.

So its ok for industry to migrate out of the country to benefit from cheap work force, but if they bring workers into the country that's unacceptable?

Companies that upsticks and off shore are as much of a threat, if not more, to the wellbeing of the UK than people who come here and work.

No one seems to think that the Government should be preventing that.

The above is nonsensical in the terms of this debate.

No one has said that it is 'ok for business to move for cheap labour'. Where did that come from?

This is correct, falling economic inequality in Brazil has forced HSBC's hand.

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dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 11 Aug 15 1.45pm
Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais; Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc. Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ? What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ? lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ? I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer. "It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"
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dannyh

wherever I lay my hat....... 11 Aug 15 1.45pm

Annnnnyway. Back to the migrants in Calais;

Whilst I freely admit that some of the immigrant hoard, swarm, call it what you will, are genuine cases, why did they not stop in the first safe country they came to? This question has not been answered by the left of arc.

Next thing, I take it the left are not so arrogant as to believe that all are deserving cases, and that the bonhomie of benefit tourists do actually exist ?

What do the left believe should be done with immigrants that rock up from countries that are not at war, not being persecuted, and just fancy some free housing and dosh ?

lastly what the do the left feel about eastern European migrants who come here to work, get a E1-11 card, then jog on back to Romania have there medical treatment done over there privately costing thousands and then the NHS gets charged ?

I have posed straight forward questions, that don't require long winded t***twaffle. Just questions that require an honest answer.

"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'"

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