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Racism and Terrorism
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 eulalio  Girls just wanna have Funt 16 Jan 03 11.20am |
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Quote Joey at 16 Jan 2003 11:15am
Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 10:30am
I think Eddie's point is that "native" Englishman aren't standing on corners holding guns. Eh?? There are no "native" Englishmen involved in criminal activity? Blimey! You must be the only people in the world who are crime free... No, it's true... the Great Train Robbers were actually Hungarian Roma (that's gypsies folks), Stephen Lawrence was murdered by a group of Danish tourists, and as we all know, Jonathan King is actually from a small village in western Romania.
face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 |
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Penge Eagle  Beckenham 16 Jan 03 11.26am |
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Quote Joey at 16 Jan 2003 11:15am
Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 10:30am
I think Eddie's point is that "native" Englishman aren't standing on corners holding guns. Eh?? There are no "native" Englishmen involved in criminal activity? Blimey! You must be the only people in the world who are crime free... I was referring to the rising gun crime.
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| eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 16 Jan 03 11.33am |
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Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 11:26am
Quote Joey at 16 Jan 2003 11:15am
Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 10:30am
I think Eddie's point is that "native" Englishman aren't standing on corners holding guns. Eh?? There are no "native" Englishmen involved in criminal activity? Blimey! You must be the only people in the world who are crime free... I was referring to the rising gun crime. Surely Joey's point still stands though. Whichever subset of crime you look at, you'll find people like me and you perpetrating it, as well as people who are different from us. However, it's natural that people facing poverty and exclusion are more likely to turn to crime, given the lack of legitimate opportunities to improve their lives. Since the poor are disproportionately descended from immigrants, it stands to reason therefore that these groups in society have more criminals than the affluent (largely white, English) groups. They aren't criminals because of what they are, or where they come from, but because of the circumstances of their lives. I'm not excusing it, I'm just explaining it.
face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 |
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 16 Jan 03 11.37am |
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Quote halfmanhalfslug at 16 Jan 2003 11:20am
Quote Joey at 16 Jan 2003 11:15am
Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 10:30am
I think Eddie's point is that "native" Englishman aren't standing on corners holding guns. Eh?? There are no "native" Englishmen involved in criminal activity? Blimey! You must be the only people in the world who are crime free... No, it's true... the Great Train Robbers were actually Hungarian Roma (that's gypsies folks), Stephen Lawrence was murdered by a group of Danish tourists, and as we all know, Jonathan King is actually from a small village in western Romania. I thought as much I like the Hungarian Roma term!
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 16 Jan 03 11.39am |
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Quote Petealiator at 16 Jan 2003 10:34am
Quote Glad All Over at 16 Jan 2003 9:59am
Grow up you silly little boy, before someone takes your internet connection away from you. Ooh, did I hit a nerve rich boy? HAHAHAHA! Who's gonna take my internet connection away? The FBI? The CIA? Daddy the Judge? You? HEHE what a clown! By the way Mr anonymous no details, don't call me a silly little boy unless you're prepared to do it to my face like a man, I'm more than happy to set up a meet you in person and ‘discuss’ your opinion of me, if you’ve got the balls, which I very much doubt. You've got a damn big mouth Sado, but that's easy when you live in multicultural Bath away from the real world and all the nasty types and you hide behind anonymity! Gutless Coward! I’ve also got a big mouth, but at least anyone can find a picture of my face with one click of the mouse and all they need to know about me, because I’ve filled out the details section unlike you! If you’re gonna come on here and try and impose your vile and twisted views, at least have the courage of your convictions and fill out your details so we can all see who you really are. Silly little rich boy! Pete, I agree with a lot of what you say but try to refrain from getting too personal!
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the despotic banana  Dept. of Baboon Maintenance 16 Jan 03 11.41am |
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Quote halfmanhalfslug at 16 Jan 2003 9:37am
Quote the despotic banana at 16 Jan 2003 8:50am
A few points to clear up from earlier in the thread; I think Condoleezza Rice is so hated because she served as a security adviser on Bush the Elder's National Security team when they were screwing the Middle East earlier last decade. Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein hate each other as Ozzy thinks Saddam is a traitor to the Muslim faith and Mr. Hussein dislikes Al-Queda because they promote trouble in Iraq. Not forgetting Donald "Barking Mad" Rumsfeld... Ah yes, Donald Rumsfeld. Not actually connected with any oil companies, but he's got his finger in just about every pie; he's been CEO of the G.D. pharmaceutical company, and General Instrument (now owned by Motorola), as well as sitting on the boards of Kellog's, Sears, Allstate, and the Tribune Company (which publishes the Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times and owns a chain of TV stations, including New York's Channel 11, which goes some way to explaining why the US media is eating out of Bush's hand). He also almost single-handedly destroyed the SALT II treaty with the USSR, whilst serving under President Ford and is a major supporter of the 'Star Wars' defense scheme. So the question you should be asking yourself is whether you really feel safe with this man Secretary of Defense for thr strongest military power in the world...
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 16 Jan 03 11.41am |
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Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 4:57pm
Well excuse me for being pedantic, but as the English ARE the native people of England, I took the term 'native culture' as meaning English culture. So you're saying multiculturalism has swamped and finally eradicated Englishness? Well I almost agree with you there, at least we're halfway there, but if you really believe that England and the English no longer exist as a culture then you're a way bigger fool than you sound. My definition of Englishness is narrow? How so? So if Bin Laden "thinks" he's as English as me, you think that's fine and dandy? Hilarious! I "think" I'll be Mexican today, and lo and behold... I am!! Excellent!! Bloody hell, at least HMHS has solid arguments to back up his beliefs, I can sometimes understand where he's coming from, but you and "Sad All Over"... Nah. Right your criteria for being English was: 1) "if you love England and respect her native culture" I think that a multi-cultural England means there isn't one culture or perspective I could point to and say that was conclusively "English". I think that it has a massive variety of cultures rather than an individual "native culture". I have the greatest of respect for the multitude of cultures that make up England today on the other hand. I also don't happen to want to die defending anything. Therefore I don't fit into your second category either. But yes both my parents and myself were born in England. Do I define myself as English? Probably yes. I also count myself as British as well. And a Londoner on top of that. Do my parents have to have been born in London and/or me be born in London to be able to count myself as a Londoner? My girlfriend's cousin has lived in England since he was six months old. He was born in Cyprus. His parents were born in Cyprus. He counts himself as entirely English. He loves England and follows a variety of the sporting teams around the country. Yet by your definition he can't be English.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| streathameagles Streatham - Palace territory 16 Jan 03 11.43am |
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Quote Sherlock at 15 Jan 2003 11:40pm
The problem is that this country is being governed at the moment by that very same [ex-university student] minority.Those worthy men who fought and died in two world wars to preserve the culture and way of life of this country would be saddened to see the state this country has arrived at but thanks to those very same men GAO and company are free to express their perverse views free of the fear of reprisal. Your 'ex-university student' jibe is specious, not to say downright libellous. What the hell are you thinking? What's the matter with you? Are you referring to all graduates? Do you think they are all programmed to do the country down or something? Do you ever take a look at the world around you, or do you rely on Richard Littlejohn for your opinions? Do you think the country would be better served by a cabinet of non-gradutes?
I post when I'm pissed |
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| eulalio Girls just wanna have Funt 16 Jan 03 11.49am |
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Quote OknotOK at 16 Jan 2003 11:41am
Quote Petealiator at 15 Jan 2003 4:57pm
Well excuse me for being pedantic, but as the English ARE the native people of England, I took the term 'native culture' as meaning English culture. So you're saying multiculturalism has swamped and finally eradicated Englishness? Well I almost agree with you there, at least we're halfway there, but if you really believe that England and the English no longer exist as a culture then you're a way bigger fool than you sound. My definition of Englishness is narrow? How so? So if Bin Laden "thinks" he's as English as me, you think that's fine and dandy? Hilarious! I "think" I'll be Mexican today, and lo and behold... I am!! Excellent!! Bloody hell, at least HMHS has solid arguments to back up his beliefs, I can sometimes understand where he's coming from, but you and "Sad All Over"... Nah. Right your criteria for being English was: 1) "if you love England and respect her native culture" I think that a multi-cultural England means there isn't one culture or perspective I could point to and say that was conclusively "English". I think that it has a massive variety of cultures rather than an individual "native culture". I have the greatest of respect for the mutltitude of cultures that make up England today on the other hand. I also don't happen to want to die defending anything. Therefore I don't fit into your second category either. But yes both my parents and myself were born in England. Do I define myself as English? Probably yes. I also count myself as British as well. And a Londoner on top of that. Do my parents have to have been born in London and/or me be born in London to be able to count myself as a Londoner? My girlfriend's cousin has lived in England since he was six months old. He was born in Cyprus. His parents were born in Cyprus. He counts himself as entirely English. He loves England and follows a variety of the sporting teams around the country. Yet by your definition he can't be English. Good point -- I, too, would not die for this country (or any other). Most of the wars we've been in are other people's wars, and I want nothing to do with them. Both of my parents were born abroad, as was my sister, and I lived the first 12 years of my life outside the UK. As stated above, I love and respect ALL of the English cultures I have seen, and there are many regional cultures before you even consider the additions and changes made by immigrants. But I, too, can't tell what's "English" and what isn't, most of the time. Take Christmas trees for example, is that English culture, or German? Turkey for Xmas dinner -- English, or American? I am definitely English... yet I also don't recognise myself in most of you. And we are, apparently, the same. Hmmm.
face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005 |
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 16 Jan 03 12.03pm |
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I have often wondered that. I always assumed that the tradition of eating turkey for xmas was an american one but never knew when it arrived here. Anyway what I have been trying to say throughout -- but have often been fairly incoherent because people have picked up on it on a number of occasions -- is that I don't believe a single English native culture does exist any more. I can't have respect for it, if I don't believe a single cultural entity exists. But I do have a lot of respect for the fact that English culture constitutes a wide variety of cultures and attitudes. As for character traits in one another: well it is hard enough to recognise myself in my next door neighbour so how I am meant to be able to identify with the 50 million (or however many it is) that live in this country is beyond me. I have some of the same priorities and beliefs but lots of different ones as well. And I am actually fairly proud of that. I don't want to descend into a country like Saudi Arabia -- as Pete picked out -- where to count yourself as Saudi Arabian is almost impossible if you are not born there. Anyway I don't think I can go throug this argument any more cos I am meant to be at work and I have spent too much time looking through this thread already! Edited by OknotOK (16 Jan 2003 12:05pm)
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| Barry Dalston - London 16 Jan 03 12.03pm |
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I have just read this thread from start to finish, took a bit of time but a very interesting read. My views on the subject are I am happy for asylum seekers to come to England if they are truly in fear of their lives BUT they must be willing to work. (Which I know some are) I know that they are not allowed to work untill there applications have been looked at but why not make ALL asylum seekers carry out national service for 3 years. This way they will prove that they really want to be in our country and are not just looking for a free ride.
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| Penge Eagle Beckenham 16 Jan 03 12.04pm |
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Quote halfmanhalfslug at 16 Jan 2003 11:33am
Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 11:26am
Quote Joey at 16 Jan 2003 11:15am
Quote Penge Eagle at 16 Jan 2003 10:30am
I think Eddie's point is that "native" Englishman aren't standing on corners holding guns. Eh?? There are no "native" Englishmen involved in criminal activity? Blimey! You must be the only people in the world who are crime free... I was referring to the rising gun crime. Surely Joey's point still stands though. Whichever subset of crime you look at, you'll find people like me and you perpetrating it, as well as people who are different from us. However, it's natural that people facing poverty and exclusion are more likely to turn to crime, given the lack of legitimate opportunities to improve their lives. Since the poor are disproportionately descended from immigrants, it stands to reason therefore that these groups in society have more criminals than the affluent (largely white, English) groups. They aren't criminals because of what they are, or where they come from, but because of the circumstances of their lives. I'm not excusing it, I'm just explaining it. Good points mate, I totally agree with you. Something pro-active needs to be done about it because why should the rest of us suffer because of all criminals in the UK. Peadophiles (sp?) is an example of predominantly white crime and the sentencing for them is not harsh enough. But the original point of the thread was the rising crime of non-English such as Islamic Extremists posing as asylum seekers etc which are a threat to all inhabitants of England including the anti-war people! This tarnishes the real asylum seekers who need support and it's our duty to do so. I think Blair should make his problems at home more of a priority than abroad and tackle the increase of gun crime which I mentioned for example.
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