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georgenorman 14 May 23 7.04am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays When you magnify you only need to look at the structure of an ice crystal or any DNA to see incredible precision and order. Mathematics or nature's code, if you will, is the unseen hand behind the stage. There was an early computer program, I can't remember what it was called 'life' or something that showed that different forms of complex order can result from just setting a few 'rules' or mathematics. So we know that structured complex order can come from randomness....The nature of the void itself are tiny energy variations within 'fields' and science's giants have shown that randomness seems to rule our physics via probability suggesting that more dimensions exist than we can access.....We live in a time where lots of minds are focused in on these questions and perhaps a new Newton will make a breakthrough. Maybe eventually we can get an answer to the classic origin question of can those energy variations within fields come from 'nothing'. Can something start from nothing, zero energy? I'm not seeing how it can. If there is a god, who created god? Did a god write this code and leave it to develop? It's like looking at a circle and trying to work out where it starts. It's not possible....but you do know that it did start, because it exists within your reality....The fact that it did start is an undeniable clue. I don't think it's possible to come to a rational conclusion from the information we currently have. We clearly do not have enough data to answer the question other than making rudimentary guesses. For myself, If I had to put money on it I would go with simulation theory and that there are 'parallel' dimensions. However, I'm aware that this is a form of cop out. But there is no certainty. Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2023 5.59am) We'll just have to wait for Wisbech to give us the definitive answer.
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georgenorman

14 May 23 7.04am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

When you magnify you only need to look at the structure of an ice crystal or any DNA to see incredible precision and order.

Mathematics or nature's code, if you will, is the unseen hand behind the stage.

There was an early computer program, I can't remember what it was called 'life' or something that showed that different forms of complex order can result from just setting a few 'rules' or mathematics. So we know that structured complex order can come from randomness....The nature of the void itself are tiny energy variations within 'fields' and science's giants have shown that randomness seems to rule our physics via probability suggesting that more dimensions exist than we can access.....We live in a time where lots of minds are focused in on these questions and perhaps a new Newton will make a breakthrough.

Maybe eventually we can get an answer to the classic origin question of can those energy variations within fields come from 'nothing'.
Can something start from nothing, zero energy? I'm not seeing how it can. If there is a god, who created god? Did a god write this code and leave it to develop? It's like looking at a circle and trying to work out where it starts. It's not possible....but you do know that it did start, because it exists within your reality....The fact that it did start is an undeniable clue.

I don't think it's possible to come to a rational conclusion from the information we currently have. We clearly do not have enough data to answer the question other than making rudimentary guesses.

For myself, If I had to put money on it I would go with simulation theory and that there are 'parallel' dimensions. However, I'm aware that this is a form of cop out. But there is no certainty.

Edited by Stirlingsays (14 May 2023 5.59am)

We'll just have to wait for Wisbech to give us the definitive answer.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 14 May 23 7.11am
Black Sabbath asked a pertinent question in one of their more recent tunes. Is God dead ? I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 14 May 23 7.11am

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Black Sabbath asked a pertinent question in one of their more recent tunes.
Is God dead ?

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 May 23 1.49pm
Originally posted by georgenorman “When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything.” [attributed to G.K. Chesterton] Just look at the many crazy things people now believe in. You can keep quoting all you like, but the fact is that a small amount of research will help you undo all the mythology and history of God worship. Man has worshipped just about everything at one time or another, and thanks to Constantine, we ended up with a monotheistic religion based on a book written by people with an agenda using much older texts and second and third hand accounts. If there is any truth in The Bible's Old Testament, it is that man has a real history that he has forgotten. The New Testament is a carefully edited and amended piece of work designed to do exactly what it has done. It is one of the greatest and most effective pieces of propaganda ever written. If people want to extract some wisdom or moral guidance from it, I have no problem with that. But if they take this stuff as the literal truth or try to fill in the gaps of our scientific knowledge by just saying that 'God' must have done it, then I have to just leave them to their delusions. If there is any basis for gods, then they were probably aliens or a previous advanced civilisation. That is far more likely than ridiculous notions about omnipotent sky fairies who we have to kneel to, or who care a damn about our personal behaviour. If any being was responsible for anything we see in our universe, then they were a being just like any other. Gods of any kind are simple mythology. As Arthur C Clarke once said: Any sufficiently advanced technology will look magic. Why do we so happily accept our one God and yet see the absurdity of other belief systems? It is just a desperate need to explain what we don't understand and to give meaning to a seemingly meaningless existence. Personally, I think life is marvellous without the need for fantasy. Look around you and consider the privilege of just being here.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 May 23 1.49pm

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Originally posted by georgenorman

“When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing; they believe in anything.” [attributed to G.K. Chesterton]
Just look at the many crazy things people now believe in.

You can keep quoting all you like, but the fact is that a small amount of research will help you undo all the mythology and history of God worship.
Man has worshipped just about everything at one time or another, and thanks to Constantine, we ended up with a monotheistic religion based on a book written by people with an agenda using much older texts and second and third hand accounts.

If there is any truth in The Bible's Old Testament, it is that man has a real history that he has forgotten. The New Testament is a carefully edited and amended piece of work designed to do exactly what it has done. It is one of the greatest and most effective pieces of propaganda ever written.

If people want to extract some wisdom or moral guidance from it, I have no problem with that. But if they take this stuff as the literal truth or try to fill in the gaps of our scientific knowledge by just saying that 'God' must have done it, then I have to just leave them to their delusions.

If there is any basis for gods, then they were probably aliens or a previous advanced civilisation. That is far more likely than ridiculous notions about omnipotent sky fairies who we have to kneel to, or who care a damn about our personal behaviour.

If any being was responsible for anything we see in our universe, then they were a being just like any other. Gods of any kind are simple mythology. As Arthur C Clarke once said: Any sufficiently advanced technology will look magic.

Why do we so happily accept our one God and yet see the absurdity of other belief systems?
It is just a desperate need to explain what we don't understand and to give meaning to a seemingly meaningless existence.

Personally, I think life is marvellous without the need for fantasy. Look around you and consider the privilege of just being here.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 14 May 23 2.16pm
Originally posted by georgenorman We'll just have to wait for Wisbech to give us the definitive answer. Well beyond my pay grade, but not it seems of everybody here. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 14 May 23 2.16pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

We'll just have to wait for Wisbech to give us the definitive answer.

Well beyond my pay grade, but not it seems of everybody here.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 May 23 2.26pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Well beyond my pay grade, but not it seems of everybody here. I think most things are beyond you Wisbech.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 May 23 2.26pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Well beyond my pay grade, but not it seems of everybody here.

I think most things are beyond you Wisbech.

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georgenorman 14 May 23 2.57pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You can keep quoting all you like, but the fact is that a small amount of research will help you undo all the mythology and history of God worship. Man has worshipped just about everything at one time or another, and thanks to Constantine, we ended up with a monotheistic religion based on a book written by people with an agenda using much older texts and second and third hand accounts. If there is any truth in The Bible's Old Testament, it is that man has a real history that he has forgotten. The New Testament is a carefully edited and amended piece of work designed to do exactly what it has done. It is one of the greatest and most effective pieces of propaganda ever written. If people want to extract some wisdom or moral guidance from it, I have no problem with that. But if they take this stuff as the literal truth or try to fill in the gaps of our scientific knowledge by just saying that 'God' must have done it, then I have to just leave them to their delusions. If there is any basis for gods, then they were probably aliens or a previous advanced civilisation. That is far more likely than ridiculous notions about omnipotent sky fairies who we have to kneel to, or who care a damn about our personal behaviour. If any being was responsible for anything we see in our universe, then they were a being just like any other. Gods of any kind are simple mythology. As Arthur C Clarke once said: Any sufficiently advanced technology will look magic. Why do we so happily accept our one God and yet see the absurdity of other belief systems? It is just a desperate need to explain what we don't understand and to give meaning to a seemingly meaningless existence. Personally, I think life is marvellous without the need for fantasy. Look around you and consider the privilege of just being here. I think you are confusing the possibility of the existence of God with religions.
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georgenorman

14 May 23 2.57pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Personally, I think life is marvellous without the need for fantasy. Look around you and consider the privilege of just being here.

I think you are confusing the possibility of the existence of God with religions.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 14 May 23 3.49pm
Humans always need rules. Without rules there is chaos. One man with 300 wives, is what you get in a society that is lawless. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 14 May 23 3.49pm

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Humans always need rules. Without rules there is chaos.

One man with 300 wives, is what you get in a society that is lawless.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 May 23 4.37pm
Originally posted by georgenorman I think you are confusing the possibility of the existence of God with religions. That is exactly what I'm not doing. There is a simple answer to that question. 'God' does not exist. The more nuanced answer is that how we imagine 'God,' if it did exist in some form, has no bearing on actual reality. Even the most scientific explanation of what 'God' might be is lacking any substance. It would only try to explain something that is based in superstition and ignorance. The Biblical interpretation is clearly absurd. Religion is therefore absurd. One might ask why Man started to believe in gods in the first place. The answer to that would be enlightening. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 May 2023 4.39pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 May 23 4.37pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

I think you are confusing the possibility of the existence of God with religions.

That is exactly what I'm not doing.

There is a simple answer to that question.

'God' does not exist.

The more nuanced answer is that how we imagine 'God,' if it did exist in some form, has no bearing on actual reality.
Even the most scientific explanation of what 'God' might be is lacking any substance.
It would only try to explain something that is based in superstition and ignorance.

The Biblical interpretation is clearly absurd. Religion is therefore absurd.

One might ask why Man started to believe in gods in the first place. The answer to that would be enlightening.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 May 2023 4.39pm)

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georgenorman 14 May 23 7.07pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger That is exactly what I'm not doing. There is a simple answer to that question. 'God' does not exist. The more nuanced answer is that how we imagine 'God,' if it did exist in some form, has no bearing on actual reality. Even the most scientific explanation of what 'God' might be is lacking any substance. It would only try to explain something that is based in superstition and ignorance. The Biblical interpretation is clearly absurd. Religion is therefore absurd. One might ask why Man started to believe in gods in the first place. The answer to that would be enlightening. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 May 2023 4.39pm) Religions might well be absurd, but that does not necessarily negate the existence of God.
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georgenorman

14 May 23 7.07pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is exactly what I'm not doing.

There is a simple answer to that question.

'God' does not exist.

The Biblical interpretation is clearly absurd. Religion is therefore absurd.

One might ask why Man started to believe in gods in the first place. The answer to that would be enlightening.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 May 2023 4.39pm)

Religions might well be absurd, but that does not necessarily negate the existence of God.

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 May 23 7.26pm
Originally posted by georgenorman Religions might well be absurd, but that does not necessarily negate the existence of God. Do you actually read posts? Are you seriously going with the God might exist because you can't prove he doesn't argument? When all the arguments are exhausted, that is what believers are left with. Do reference Richard Dawkins' Spaghetti Monster, but don't expect me to argue against such daft positions.
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 May 23 7.26pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Religions might well be absurd, but that does not necessarily negate the existence of God.

Do you actually read posts?

Are you seriously going with the God might exist because you can't prove he doesn't argument?

When all the arguments are exhausted, that is what believers are left with.

Do reference Richard Dawkins' Spaghetti Monster, but don't expect me to argue against such daft positions.

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Badger11 Beckenham 14 May 23 7.54pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger That is exactly what I'm not doing. There is a simple answer to that question. 'God' does not exist. The more nuanced answer is that how we imagine 'God,' if it did exist in some form, has no bearing on actual reality. Even the most scientific explanation of what 'God' might be is lacking any substance. It would only try to explain something that is based in superstition and ignorance. The Biblical interpretation is clearly absurd. Religion is therefore absurd. One might ask why Man started to believe in gods in the first place. The answer to that would be enlightening. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 May 2023 4.39pm) I'll have a go at that one, not saying I'm right but just my feeling. Early man was scared, scared of the dark, scared of storms, pretty much scared of everything and with good reason, dangerous animals other men etc. Anyway we tried to explain why bad things happen so it must be the thunder god or the sun god or the rain god of the god of the harvest etc. Plato had a go with his cave allegory says it better than I could. [Link] Edited by Badger11 (14 May 2023 7.54pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 14 May 23 7.54pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

That is exactly what I'm not doing.

There is a simple answer to that question.

'God' does not exist.

The Biblical interpretation is clearly absurd. Religion is therefore absurd.

One might ask why Man started to believe in gods in the first place. The answer to that would be enlightening.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (14 May 2023 4.39pm)

I'll have a go at that one, not saying I'm right but just my feeling.

Early man was scared, scared of the dark, scared of storms, pretty much scared of everything and with good reason, dangerous animals other men etc.

Anyway we tried to explain why bad things happen so it must be the thunder god or the sun god or the rain god of the god of the harvest etc.

Plato had a go with his cave allegory says it better than I could.

[Link]

Edited by Badger11 (14 May 2023 7.54pm)

One more point

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Hrolf The Ganger 14 May 23 8.35pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I'll have a go at that one, not saying I'm right but just my feeling. Early man was scared, scared of the dark, scared of storms, pretty much scared of everything and with good reason, dangerous animals other men etc. Anyway we tried to explain why bad things happen so it must be the thunder god or the sun god or the rain god of the god of the harvest etc. Plato had a go with his cave allegory says it better than I could. [Link] Edited by Badger11 (14 May 2023 7.54pm) It's part of a pre scientific interpretation of what was going on around you. I wonder which part of that produced ideas of gods? Interesting, is it not?
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Hrolf The Ganger

14 May 23 8.35pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I'll have a go at that one, not saying I'm right but just my feeling.

Early man was scared, scared of the dark, scared of storms, pretty much scared of everything and with good reason, dangerous animals other men etc.

Anyway we tried to explain why bad things happen so it must be the thunder god or the sun god or the rain god of the god of the harvest etc.

Plato had a go with his cave allegory says it better than I could.

[Link]

Edited by Badger11 (14 May 2023 7.54pm)

It's part of a pre scientific interpretation of what was going on around you.

I wonder which part of that produced ideas of gods?

Interesting, is it not?

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