If the England team fails to take the knee at the World Cup then all this kneeling & hand wringing for Saint Floyd will have been for nothing.

As far as leftist movements go BLM has to be one of the worst & probably created more racists than it actually 'educated' away from it.

And please do not lecture me on how it was rebranded away from BLM - different slogan same rotten movement.
There was a time during lockdown the seats in Selhurst had BLM Tifos draped all over them.

The whole thing has been a disaster.

Yes, I too await the visual protests that the England team will make at the World Cup. Let's see if the LGBTQ+ get a mention.
On the subject of BLM, which cannot be disassociated from the political movement of the same name, the media and football associations should have distanced themselves from the slogan and used the momentum of the movement to increase awareness of the existing Kick it Out campaign. I don't think the 'racists' on here would necessarily have objected to an increase in its visibility, but by going full tilt into the Black Lives Matter slogan there are obviously people who object to the political connection. It could have been done so much better...
Edited by Ouzo Dan (08 Aug 2022 8.12pm)

Does make me laugh this whole thing especially reading some posts, for me it captures perfectly all that is seemingly wrong with society and culture today. On the one hand you have those bemoaning yet another social justice campaign, with varying reasons and the other you have people thinking this is some sort of evidence for hatred and justification for the very thing itself.

Ubiquitously, I do believe some peoples might actually be however there is a fine line between intent and poor articulation... both ways. Those who have a grievance may fail to articulate absolutely perfectly just what it is and anything they say that does not fit the narrative exactly is automatically attacked by those seeking martyrdom and presumably some attention and fulfilment in their own lives.

Personally, I would rid football of racism if I had a magic wand but alas that is not the case. Furthermore, I don't think the taking of the knee makes any difference whatsoever. Football is punctuated and seasoned with tribal and other hatred and this will always take many forms. Minimising if not eradicating racism is something we should strive for however ceremonious gestures can be tiresome at best and will at some point lose any effectiveness, if they ever had any, and start to rile up those who just want to watch football (as we are seeing).

As an example, in the light of Barry Bennell, Adam Johnson, Thomas Partey and no doubt so many more, I might propose a macarena before each and every match to oppose paedophilia, sexual crime and abuse. It might take a hold shortly but sooner or later people will get annoyed, tired or fed up with it and it should be retired. Once again, I do not believe it will make any actual difference to fighting the cause, just make some feel better about themselves. The notion that non-compliance with the macarena, or even a moan at it's place at a football match, being evidence of a paedophile, rapist or what have you is utter nonsense. No matter the cause, such dictatorial behaviour (you must embrace, participate and not criticise 'x') is always worrying and I believe a big cause for concern and rebellion from some.

It is possible to be both against racism but also against taking the knee at every single match. There is a difference between fighting to minimise and eradicate social wrongs and just hijacking a national pastime to use as a platform for continuous social conditioning (or possibly commercial/financial gain). After television generally, I struggle to see many larger communication channels to mass audiences beyond football.

I would like one day to see any halfwit who might be inclined to throw a banana, scream obscenity, send abusive messages etc turn up somewhere and say 'I was hellbent on [the aforementioned] before everyone started taking the knee and I realised just how thick I was'. Won't and never will happen. As I opened with, and evidenced on this latest thread, you see those who may have sat slightly on either side of the fence being pushed further apart by these things as opposed to drawing people together for solutions and progress.

Personally, I'd like to see us shelf the 'knee' for now, revisit it in reaction to any notable racist incidents and if there is any genuine intent, look at more constructive and effective ways of tackling racism in football although, as previously mentioned, I believe there is an extent to which this can be achieved. There will never be a 'perfect 0' on that score in my opinion but thus far very little is being done to actually address this and a lot is being done to take football away from it's purest form for whatever reasons - many of which can and will be speculated upon.

I'd also add Wilf has chosen to stand, and I respect him and support him in doing so. Pat has voiced intentions and wishes to continue the knee and I will equally respect and support that decision. My main concern is it is causing more distraction and division than anything now, something we could do without. My main focus in this field is to support my club, and that includes the players, staff and all fellow fans. My concern is any negative influence upon these.

Edited by Nicholas91 (09 Aug 2022 10.20am)

I agree, although not in as many words.

Where I am seated in the HL, we're too busy chanting at the start of the match, so that I barely notice it. Don't hear any token applause, don't hear whoever's commentating say "the players take a knee in opposition to discrimination of all forms."

At the Emirates the applause probably forms the loudest bit of matches outside of goals, but it's irrelevant at Palace. I think The Premier League are probably a bit worried because the act is so devoid of meaning any more that they envisage it becoming like the KickItOut t-shirt campaign. Wear a t-shirt, do nothing. Well, it has become like that. So it's failed, no matter what anyone else says. As people have pointed out, prejudiced adults won't be won over. It's unlikely to affect children. Who cares anymore?

How about the lack of representation at manager level?

How about the lack of representation at manager level?