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Penge Eagle Beckenham 07 Jun 18 6.15pm | |
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Originally posted by Islington Eagle
Few Points: The fence is not a border. The people of Gaza are under the occupying control of Israel since the 1967 war. How is it a border? Remeber there is no country of Palestine - so this is not a border. As the occupying power the government of Israel has a responsibility to the inhabintants of Gaza. However since the Democratic election of Hamas in free and fair elections Israel has imposed illegal collective punishment on the 2 million people of Gaza (for exercising their democratic right - the result of which Israel didn't like). I don't entirely disagree with your points and we all know Israel is not perfect – just like the UK and any other country in the world. However, we are specifically talking about the original post on this thread which was referring to the most recent Gaza trouble, which was purely the fault of Hamas and the Argie football team have since decided to virtue signal. A topic on the historical aspect of Israel is for another thread entirely. Edited by Penge Eagle (07 Jun 2018 6.16pm)
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Bert the Head Epsom 09 Jun 18 8.50am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Israeli Arabs vote in Israeli elections. There are Israeli Arab political parties. I don’t get your ‘apartheid’ comment. There are elections in Palestinian Territories. And the ‘stolen land’ argument is disputable. You could argue that the land was stolen from the Jews before being taken back. PS. Instead ofgetting all your political opinion from the Owen Jones column in the Guardian, why don’t you go to Tel Aviv and see how the Israelis and Arabs actually live. They are quite integrated. Edited by matt_himself (07 Jun 2018 6.28am) (Israeli Arabs vote in Israeli elections. There are Israeli Arab political parties. I don’t get your ‘apartheid’ comment.) A United Nations report (Israeli Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid) has made this accusation. (There are elections in Palestinian Territories). (And the ‘stolen land’ argument is disputable). (You could argue that the land was stolen from the Jews before being taken back). Only if you believe the bible is a documented history. But even then why would the fact that the Jews were a nation 2,000 years ago in an ancient Israel confer on their decedents a right to dispossess the Palestinians now? Cook quotes Israeli sociologist and peace activist Jeff Halper: “Although the ancient Israelites and Judeans had sovereignty over the country for only 1,300 of its 10,000 years of recorded history (and a third of which was under Babylonian, Greek or Roman Suzerainty), in Zionist thought our claims trump any others including 1,300 years of Muslim rule. (taken from: An Israeli in Palestine: Resisting Dispossession, Redeeming Israel) (PS. Instead ofgetting all your political opinion from the Owen Jones column in the Guardian, why don’t you go to Tel Aviv and see how the Israelis and Arabs actually live. They are quite integrated). Owen Jones is ok for domestic stuff his book `Chavs’ and `The Establishment’ are pretty good. But he isn’t someone I’d read on the occupation of Palestine. Chomsky, Ilan Pappé and Jonathan Cook are much better. I don’t place too much trust in newspaper columns. If I want to educate my opinion I tend to read a book. I would prefer to go to Gazza and see how the Palestinians live there. But it is very dangerous and the Israeli’s keep cutting the water and the electricity off. Not to mentions the snipers taking pot shots at its inhabitants.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 Jun 18 1.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
(Israeli Arabs vote in Israeli elections. There are Israeli Arab political parties. I don’t get your ‘apartheid’ comment.) A United Nations report (Israeli Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid) has made this accusation. (There are elections in Palestinian Territories). (And the ‘stolen land’ argument is disputable). (You could argue that the land was stolen from the Jews before being taken back). Only if you believe the bible is a documented history. But even then why would the fact that the Jews were a nation 2,000 years ago in an ancient Israel confer on their decedents a right to dispossess the Palestinians now? Cook quotes Israeli sociologist and peace activist Jeff Halper: “Although the ancient Israelites and Judeans had sovereignty over the country for only 1,300 of its 10,000 years of recorded history (and a third of which was under Babylonian, Greek or Roman Suzerainty), in Zionist thought our claims trump any others including 1,300 years of Muslim rule. (taken from: An Israeli in Palestine: Resisting Dispossession, Redeeming Israel) (PS. Instead ofgetting all your political opinion from the Owen Jones column in the Guardian, why don’t you go to Tel Aviv and see how the Israelis and Arabs actually live. They are quite integrated). Owen Jones is ok for domestic stuff his book `Chavs’ and `The Establishment’ are pretty good. But he isn’t someone I’d read on the occupation of Palestine. Chomsky, Ilan Pappé and Jonathan Cook are much better. I don’t place too much trust in newspaper columns. If I want to educate my opinion I tend to read a book. I would prefer to go to Gazza and see how the Palestinians live there. But it is very dangerous and the Israeli’s keep cutting the water and the electricity off. Not to mentions the snipers taking pot shots at its inhabitants.
Sounds an awful like all those 'Remainiacs & Europhiles'
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Stirlingsays 09 Jun 18 2.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
(Israeli Arabs vote in Israeli elections. There are Israeli Arab political parties. I don’t get your ‘apartheid’ comment.) A United Nations report (Israeli Practices towards the Palestinian People and the Question of Apartheid) has made this accusation. (There are elections in Palestinian Territories). (And the ‘stolen land’ argument is disputable). (You could argue that the land was stolen from the Jews before being taken back). Only if you believe the bible is a documented history. But even then why would the fact that the Jews were a nation 2,000 years ago in an ancient Israel confer on their decedents a right to dispossess the Palestinians now? Cook quotes Israeli sociologist and peace activist Jeff Halper: “Although the ancient Israelites and Judeans had sovereignty over the country for only 1,300 of its 10,000 years of recorded history (and a third of which was under Babylonian, Greek or Roman Suzerainty), in Zionist thought our claims trump any others including 1,300 years of Muslim rule. (taken from: An Israeli in Palestine: Resisting Dispossession, Redeeming Israel) (PS. Instead ofgetting all your political opinion from the Owen Jones column in the Guardian, why don’t you go to Tel Aviv and see how the Israelis and Arabs actually live. They are quite integrated). Owen Jones is ok for domestic stuff his book `Chavs’ and `The Establishment’ are pretty good. But he isn’t someone I’d read on the occupation of Palestine. Chomsky, Ilan Pappé and Jonathan Cook are much better. I don’t place too much trust in newspaper columns. If I want to educate my opinion I tend to read a book. I would prefer to go to Gazza and see how the Palestinians live there. But it is very dangerous and the Israeli’s keep cutting the water and the electricity off. Not to mentions the snipers taking pot shots at its inhabitants.
Aside from the opinion that the west are quite right to be enemies of Hamas.....I have little issue with your paragraphs dealing with the injustice of how we got here. However, it doesn't change much.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Bert the Head Epsom 10 Jun 18 8.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Aside from the opinion that the west are quite right to be enemies of Hamas.....I have little issue with your paragraphs dealing with the injustice of how we got here. However, it doesn't change much. Hamas are not an organization that I have much truck with, but seeing as we have supported the Also Hamas is Israel's baby. They supported it in the early days to undermine the PLO which was pretty much a secular organization.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Jun 18 9.57pm | |
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Stirlingsays 12 Jun 18 3.02am | |
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Originally posted by Bert the Head
Hamas are not an organization that I have much truck with, but seeing as we have supported the Also Hamas is Israel's baby. They supported it in the early days to undermine the PLO which was pretty much a secular organization.
'Supported'.....typical disingenuous phrasing for what was in effect tactical and trade. There is no such thing as clean hands in international affairs. Not siding simply means you lose whatever way the cards fall. No doubt you would have left all the early interference to the communists...seeing as you only criticise the west. It was a proxy war.....with attitudes like yours whole countries would have been suffering under communism. The Hamas that Israel had a hand in isn't anything like what they face now. So more disingenuous stuff....accepting the fact that they play into Israel's hands....well the right in Israel, which now is a comfortable majority. Hamas are nothing more than a part of the problem. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Jun 2018 3.07am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Islington Eagle North of the River 12 Jun 18 10.10am | |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
this Pride parade? Where ultra orthodox Jews stab the participants. Also note that unlike Arab knife wielding terrorists he was not summarily shot to death by the police.
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Stirlingsays 12 Jun 18 11.43am | |
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Originally posted by Islington Eagle
this Pride parade? Where ultra orthodox Jews stab the participants. Also note that unlike Arab knife wielding terrorists he was not summarily shot to death by the police. You expect Israel to treat these things equally? How do you think Hamas would deal with the same situation. Isn't there a double standard operating here?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Penge Eagle Beckenham 12 Jun 18 12.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Islington Eagle
this Pride parade? Where ultra orthodox Jews stab the participants. Also note that unlike Arab knife wielding terrorists he was not summarily shot to death by the police. And only yesterday a Palestinian man stabbed an Israeli woman and was then shot in the leg when he ran away. [Link]
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