Some people do genuinely love diversity....or they can't afford to move out. I lived in Catford for a few years in the nineties.

I've no problems with those who love diversity living in it and enjoying it.

However, statistics don't lie and the truth about what's happened in London with 'white flight' is pretty obvious.

I want to add that for me, this is a cultural thing, not skin colour. Because I know how the left like to frame this. I have no issues with living with people who are culturally English/British. If someone with a British passport identifies with another non British country well that's one thing....when it's half the street....I'm off....unless it's difficult to move.

A lot of people say one thing and do another...Swear blind they will.....one of the lessons life teaches you, if you are listening.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Jun 2018 11.15am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

This sounds way too convenient to me....sorry, but it does.

'I just love diversity.....but I don't live there...because 'insert''

Now I admit, this is going to be true for a minority of people....but it's also going to be untrue for far more...and they will lie about it.

Evidence? Demographic change in London. Loads of white people didn't suddenly became far richer than before and then think.....you know what...even though I really love London and my family have lived in it for generations.....I just want to live outside London in far less diverse areas.

If it were only to do with the expense of London then we would be seeing non whites moving out of London at the same rate.....We don't.

Like I said, there are words and then there are actions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Jun 2018 11.30am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Is it the only factor?.....there are rarely just one factor to moving. But it's probably the single biggest factor in the demographic change.

I knew it was for my stepfather when we moved out of London. We lived on Stockwell Park Estate and after my mother was mugged he had enough. Could he bring up loads of other plausible excuses....sure, anyone with two brain cells can.

However, macho statistics over time don't lie.

Like I said, some people love diversity....more power to them. Lots don't, eventually this will be reflected in demographcal change in an area.

I could spend time trawling though the statistics to prove this...I think I've done this previously....but I could only prove the demographic change......People aren't honest about controversial opinions.....look what being honest gets you.

I'm not going to put the time in proving that Grannies suck eggs just to hear you deny reality.

I'm fine with you having your opinion.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Jun 2018 11.50am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

No, there are loads of factors, which is the point I've been making the whole time - you have been ascertaining that anyone who moves out of London must not like diversity; now you acknowledge there are numerous factors to moving, surely you see that point does not make sense.

You keep mentioning statistics, yet there are none to support your point.

And I'm fine with you having your opinion, but isn't the point of a forum to debate opinions - have we really reached a point where anyone who dares to disagree with you on something is 'denying reality'.

Let's say hypothetically that you're right and white flight (despite us apparently needing to ignore skin colour on here) has been and is caused mainly by the increase of, as you state, an increase of anyone who does not identify as culturally British.

• Isn't that a bit sad, self-interested and one eyed?
• Shouldn't integration work both ways?

What actually is 'British culture' then, as I get the feeling that it's something that only exists in the minds of the into the green and pleasant fields and hide behind the hedge brigade. Before immigration, bar a few highlights Britain was as dull as dishwater. meat and two veg. Stiff upper lip. fag, pint and some darts down the pub. Getting pissed, fighting, polite chats with your neighbour about the weather (but for gods sake nothing else!), being aloof, uncompromising, publicly tolerant but privately scathing. Jesus. What a time to be alive.

So, what exactly is culturally British in 2018? It's something that's hard to define , but it is certainly not the magical, almost puritanical nostalgia driven fantasy that it sometimes seems to be made out as on here, that really only ever existed in stories, films, and now in the imaginations of those over the age of 40, often to the detriment of others time and sanity.

Whether you like it or not, whatever you think it was is not coming back, and for you, running away from solutions and tying yourself firmly to your stake in the hedge is probably the best solution.

Have you watched the recent Grenfell tower documentary on BBC iplayer? The community reaction to that (from all cultural and ethnic backgrounds, incidentally, again not that it really matters other than to make a point in this thread) made me proud to be British. That is what British looks like to me. The response from the government and council and the marginalisation of members of that community made me ashamed to be British.

Also re. the affordability point, it's not as simple as that either. Earnings per demographic would go some way to putting a pin in that. Maybe if you looked closer at demographic split into council housing and where said housing is more dense, but then it comes down to earnings, poverty and therefore the cause and effect of that rather than race, ethnicity or culture.

If you flipped things round and put all the middle class and higher earners, who would probably mostly be white and 'Culturally British' as per statistics, on low salaries, multiple jobs and welfare, with poor education for their children, limited opportunities and borderline poverty, I think things would turn pretty sour pretty quickly.

They wouldn't all be sitting around drinking cups of tea being terribly stoic and British. They'd be out stealing and stabbing with the best of them. Maybe in a slightly more strategic way as they've had the luxury of a privately educated, privileged background, but with the same outcome. Kind of like 'High Rise'. But for real.

In summary It's certainly a culmination of factors but I don't think either of you are right to claim that yours is the main one. Might have been easier just to say that, TBF. Absolute rant

Edited by SW19 CPFC (13 Jun 2018 1.47pm)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

It is a waste of my time to engage in this sort of conversation. You ask loaded questions and you are not interested in the validity of the answers.

British culture is a shared language, a shared experience, a shared understanding, a shared loyalty, a shared interest, a shared history.

Not all of these things are exclusive to one group of course but you can only have an understanding of it if you have lived all or most of your life and have embraced British life and British people. Some immigrants and their offsprng manage that with little problem whereas others do not want to. I don't want Britain to be filling up with the latter. Why would I? Why would anyone? What is the advantage?

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Jun 2018 2.41pm)