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Farawayeagle Sydney 04 Jan 18 5.14pm | |
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Ray don’t hitch you wagon to peer reviewing. Many scientist question it. WHAT IS PEER REVIEW? What is clear is that the forms of peer review are protean. Probably the systems of every journal and every grant giving body are different in at least some detail; and some systems are very different. There may even be some journals using the following classic system. The editor looks at the title of the paper and sends it to two friends whom the editor thinks know something about the subject. If both advise publication the editor sends it to the printers. If both advise against publication the editor rejects the paper. If the reviewers disagree the editor sends it to a third reviewer and does whatever he or she advises. This pastiche—which is not far from systems I have seen used—is little better than tossing a coin, because the level of agreement between reviewers on whether a paper should be published is little better than you'd expect by chance.1 That is why Robbie Fox, the great 20th century editor of the Lancet, who was no admirer of peer review, wondered whether anybody would notice if he were to swap the piles marked `publish' and `reject'. He also joked that the Lancet had a system of throwing a pile of papers down the stairs and publishing those that reached the bottom. When I was editor of the BMJ I was challenged by two of the cleverest researchers in Britain to publish an issue of the journal comprised only of papers that had failed peer review and see if anybody noticed. I wrote back `How do you know I haven't already done it?'
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jan 18 5.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Farawayeagle
Ray don’t hitch you wagon to peer reviewing. Many scientist question it. WHAT IS PEER REVIEW? What is clear is that the forms of peer review are protean. Probably the systems of every journal and every grant giving body are different in at least some detail; and some systems are very different. There may even be some journals using the following classic system. The editor looks at the title of the paper and sends it to two friends whom the editor thinks know something about the subject. If both advise publication the editor sends it to the printers. If both advise against publication the editor rejects the paper. If the reviewers disagree the editor sends it to a third reviewer and does whatever he or she advises. This pastiche—which is not far from systems I have seen used—is little better than tossing a coin, because the level of agreement between reviewers on whether a paper should be published is little better than you'd expect by chance.1 That is why Robbie Fox, the great 20th century editor of the Lancet, who was no admirer of peer review, wondered whether anybody would notice if he were to swap the piles marked `publish' and `reject'. He also joked that the Lancet had a system of throwing a pile of papers down the stairs and publishing those that reached the bottom. When I was editor of the BMJ I was challenged by two of the cleverest researchers in Britain to publish an issue of the journal comprised only of papers that had failed peer review and see if anybody noticed. I wrote back `How do you know I haven't already done it?'
I think we're talking peer review in the wider context - A journal might publish something, and then counter-arguements on inherent flaws or mistakes will likely be raised by other researchers and research - as opposed to review by the journal. Once published - its rare for 'faulty work' to remain valid for long - the competitive nature of research tends to expose faulty findings / methodological errors or poor variable definitions - much faster than any reviewer probably could.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jan 18 5.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Better to have an open mind than the delusion of rigid certainty. Wouldn't an open mind be going with the vast majority of research, rather than refusing a statement based on the objection of a minority of research (until such time as proven otherwise). Kind of like Occum's Razor if you will (you start with the probable, and eliminate based on evidence).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Ray in Houston Houston 04 Jan 18 5.37pm | |
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Originally posted by Farawayeagle
Ray don’t hitch you wagon to peer reviewing. Many scientist question it.
It's constantly re-evaluating itself, including even the methods by which it evaluates itself. It's why we should trust science much more than we should trust someone's Luddite instincts to deny the progress of scientific understanding. Edited by Ray in Houston (04 Jan 2018 5.37pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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Hrolf The Ganger 04 Jan 18 6.01pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Wouldn't an open mind be going with the vast majority of research, rather than refusing a statement based on the objection of a minority of research (until such time as proven otherwise). Kind of like Occum's Razor if you will (you start with the probable, and eliminate based on evidence). I neither completely accept or reject man made global warming. I acknowledge the weight of opinion but also understand the limitations of the scientific process. There is a case for reducing industrial emissions on the basis that it might be a cause of warming but in practice, the entire world has to do the same. That is unlikely. There will be a lag as developing countries catch up.
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Ray in Houston Houston 04 Jan 18 6.10pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Once published - its rare for 'faulty work' to remain valid for long - the competitive nature of research tends to expose faulty findings / methodological errors or poor variable definitions - much faster than any reviewer probably could. Ironically, the one published work that has bucked this trend is the bogus link between vaccinations and autism. That paper was debunked almost immediately, and retracted by The Lancet which originally published it, yet it has been seized upon by the anti-science brigade and became, literally, a cause célèbre.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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