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Catalonia
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wordup  03 Oct 17 12.22am |
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I have no dog in this fight either way, but images of hundreds of people getting a beating for trying to cast a vote, will very likely not damage the Catalonian cause for independence. When you have to beat the opinion out of joe public, you may very well be in the wrong.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 03 Oct 17 7.57am |
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Originally posted by wordup
I have no dog in this fight either way, but images of hundreds of people getting a beating for trying to cast a vote, will very likely not damage the Catalonian cause for independence. When you have to beat the opinion out of joe public, you may very well be in the wrong. We should try this with Strictly Come Dancing and the X-Factor.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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 Stirlingsays 03 Oct 17 8.13am |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
We should try this with Strictly Come Dancing and the X-Factor.
Television fascist and antifa style!
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Mr Palaceman 03 Oct 17 9.38am |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Until they get a right to vote from central government, and not just carry one out because they want to, it can't be deemed legal in any way. Even the Catalan leader, I think it was, said he couldn't vote where he was supposed to as the police had closed it, so he voted somewhere else. That doesn't sound like an election that isn't prone to illegal voting or voting errors. Hmm, I'm not sure that it is. If they want to leave and the rest of Spain says no, that isn't self determination. It should be the same as when Scotland voted, it's down to them IF there was a proper referendum. I feel for those Spaniards like Barcelona Eagle who are invested in the region. I think both sides have gone about this in the wrong way. Can't end well.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Oct 17 10.08am |
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Originally posted by Mr Palaceman
Hmm, I'm not sure that it is. If they want to leave and the rest of Spain says no, that isn't self determination. It should be the same as when Scotland voted, it's down to them IF there was a proper referendum. I feel for those Spaniards like Barcelona Eagle who are invested in the region. I think both sides have gone about this in the wrong way. Can't end well. I think Stuk has a point in terms of the final resolution to this problem. However, the Spanish government were definitely wrong to try and stop this vote via force. Once this region had decided to vote they should have been allowed to do it if the alternative was going to be force. This is a matter of self determination between Spaniards.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Oct 17 10.30am |
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Originally posted by rob1969
The vote may be illegal according to the Spanish constitution so any result will be purely a indication of people wishes and in no way binding or having any validity. Therefore why not let them go ahead and just ignore the outcome. Using force to try to prevent the vote seems totally pointless and just rings of Spain of 40 + years ago. Really unbelievable! Because it will clearly display the desire for independence. Expect the future to involve an ETA like movement for Independence, if democratic means of pursuit of political change are unavailable, revolutionary ones will arise. Also this will likely also see a return of ETA in Spain, as the two regions will see a potential 'joint cause' here.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stuk Top half 03 Oct 17 11.10am |
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Originally posted by Mr Palaceman
Hmm, I'm not sure that it is. If they want to leave and the rest of Spain says no, that isn't self determination. It should be the same as when Scotland voted, it's down to them IF there was a proper referendum. I feel for those Spaniards like Barcelona Eagle who are invested in the region. I think both sides have gone about this in the wrong way. Can't end well. So if I want to declare my house an independent country that's just up to me is it? No. And that'd be with a 100% backing in a 100% voter turnout. It wasn't down to Scotland when they voted, it was the UK government that gave them the right to have a referendum. Which is why Sturgeon can be totally ignored whenever she bangs on about having another one. They're a once in a generation thing, at best.
Optimistic as ever |
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| npn Crowborough 03 Oct 17 11.15am |
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It was madness by the Spanish government. Region demands independence referendum, government says no, region says "we're having one anyway". Surely the sensible response would be "it won't be legitimate or recognised" and if they want to crack on and go through the motions, just let them and ignore the result completely. Charging in snatching polling boxes and handing out kickings is not going to help anyone.
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| Stuk Top half 03 Oct 17 11.23am |
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Originally posted by npn
It was madness by the Spanish government. Region demands independence referendum, government says no, region says "we're having one anyway". Surely the sensible response would be "it won't be legitimate or recognised" and if they want to crack on and go through the motions, just let them and ignore the result completely. Charging in snatching polling boxes and handing out kickings is not going to help anyone. Correct. It probably wouldn't have stood up to independent scrutiny or recognition either.
Optimistic as ever |
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| chris123 hove actually 03 Oct 17 11.35am |
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Originally posted by Stuk
So if I want to declare my house an independent country that's just up to me is it? No. And that'd be with a 100% backing in a 100% voter turnout. It wasn't down to Scotland when they voted, it was the UK government that gave them the right to have a referendum. Which is why Sturgeon can be totally ignored whenever she bangs on about having another one. They're a once in a generation thing, at best. Just as in Passport to Pimlico!
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Oct 17 12.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
So if I want to declare my house an independent country that's just up to me is it? No. And that'd be with a 100% backing in a 100% voter turnout. It wasn't down to Scotland when they voted, it was the UK government that gave them the right to have a referendum. Which is why Sturgeon can be totally ignored whenever she bangs on about having another one. They're a once in a generation thing, at best. It is technically possible, but very difficult if within a recognised, and ratified country as you need other countries to recognise you as an independent state. However, if you were to do so, without breaking with continuity within the UK (ie paying taxes, adhering to laws etc) you could probably get away with doing things like issuing your own passports (for entry to the house), creating your own money for use in your country etc without any real problems. People would just think you weird.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 03 Oct 17 12.17pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
So if I want to declare my house an independent country that's just up to me is it? No. And that'd be with a 100% backing in a 100% voter turnout. It wasn't down to Scotland when they voted, it was the UK government that gave them the right to have a referendum. Which is why Sturgeon can be totally ignored whenever she bangs on about having another one. They're a once in a generation thing, at best. Are there no other people in your house (wife, girlfriend, children) or who have legal relationship (ex-wife, grown children / heirs etc). Also the bank if you have a mortgage would likely have a say.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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