North Korea

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North Korea

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jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Aug 17 5.23pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays NK behave like a child with a grenade....Trump is a petulant liar with an ego.....North Korea isn't Trump's fault at all. Absolutely, there are many things Trump can take the blame for, North Korea isn't one of them. His inflammatory speech isn't really all that more threatening that previous US administrations either - maybe less eloquent and diplomatic, but not really any different in the main. NK will rattle their sabres, the US will rattle theirs - both sides will talk big, but most likely its a cover for the compromise solution both are negotiating behind the scenes. Which is pretty much how its always been - It was the same with the Soviet Union. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Aug 17 5.23pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays
NK behave like a child with a grenade....Trump is a petulant liar with an ego.....North Korea isn't Trump's fault at all.

Absolutely, there are many things Trump can take the blame for, North Korea isn't one of them. His inflammatory speech isn't really all that more threatening that previous US administrations either - maybe less eloquent and diplomatic, but not really any different in the main.

NK will rattle their sabres, the US will rattle theirs - both sides will talk big, but most likely its a cover for the compromise solution both are negotiating behind the scenes.

Which is pretty much how its always been - It was the same with the Soviet Union.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 17 5.32pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston NK had its first successful nuclear weapons test in 2006. [Link] Obama didn't take office until January 2009. Still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant. What did Obama do to address the issue during his tenure in the White House? The key development of their weapons capability happened during his Presidency. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 10 Aug 17 5.32pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

NK had its first successful nuclear weapons test in 2006. [Link]

Obama didn't take office until January 2009. Still, let's not let facts get in the way of a good rant.

What did Obama do to address the issue during his tenure in the White House? The key development of their weapons capability happened during his Presidency.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 17 5.33pm
Originally posted by Sportyteacher And how many policy failures has Trump already attained to date? At least Obama kept his people alive and didn't resort to gung-ho tactics of the type that Trump is displaying. Trump has seriously ramped up levels of US animosity with North Korean leadership whereupon it is increasingly looking like there could be some serious catastrophe about to be played out. UN seems to be invisible within all of this at the moment. Utter crap. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 10 Aug 17 5.33pm

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

And how many policy failures has Trump already attained to date? At least Obama kept his people alive and didn't resort to gung-ho tactics of the type that Trump is displaying. Trump has seriously ramped up levels of US animosity with North Korean leadership whereupon it is increasingly looking like there could be some serious catastrophe about to be played out. UN seems to be invisible within all of this at the moment.

Utter crap.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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turkish eagle 10 Aug 17 5.43pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 I've seen that the Turkish government has introduced more restrictions and much higher prices on alcohol in recent years as part of the increasing islamic religious influence in the country. Yes, its a reactionary direction and one I'm opposed to. Still cheaper to get pissed in Turkey though, even with the higher prices you mentioned. My point is that there are reactionary forces trying to turn us against each other everywhere. And I've no doubt our current government here is as supportive of Erdogan as Trump is.
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turkish eagle

10 Aug 17 5.43pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I've seen that the Turkish government has introduced more restrictions and much higher prices on alcohol in recent years as part of the increasing islamic religious influence in the country.

Yes, its a reactionary direction and one I'm opposed to. Still cheaper to get pissed in Turkey though, even with the higher prices you mentioned. My point is that there are reactionary forces trying to turn us against each other everywhere. And I've no doubt our current government here is as supportive of Erdogan as Trump is.

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Ray in Houston Houston 10 Aug 17 6.05pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle Regarding NK and US - isnt it a case of 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking for conflict as the sole means to maintain domestic credibility? I think the sage advice of Chuck D is apt: "It was war they wanted and war they got, but they melted in the heat when my Uzi got hot." Seoul gets mullered in any and all hot war scenarios. Actually, it's 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking desperately to avoid conflict, but unable to back away from threatening each other as it's the sole means to maintain domestic credibility. And when NK's response to Trump seems more reasonable than his "fire and fury" alliteration, then we're all - but especially Seoul - f*ed. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just waing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 10 Aug 17 6.05pm

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Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

Regarding NK and US - isnt it a case of 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking for conflict as the sole means to maintain domestic credibility?

I think the sage advice of Chuck D is apt: "It was war they wanted and war they got, but they melted in the heat when my Uzi got hot."

Seoul gets mullered in any and all hot war scenarios.

Actually, it's 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking desperately to avoid conflict, but unable to back away from threatening each other as it's the sole means to maintain domestic credibility.

And when NK's response to Trump seems more reasonable than his "fire and fury" alliteration, then we're all - but especially Seoul - f***ed.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 10 Aug 17 6.08pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 NK will rattle their sabres, the US will rattle theirs - both sides will talk big, but most likely its a cover for the compromise solution both are negotiating behind the scenes. You're right about the first part, but the big difference here is that Trump is a big enough baby that he'll nuke someone before looking bad on Twitter, and now it's his understaffed and inexperienced State Department is doing the behind the scenes work. If only Jared didn't have so much on his plate... We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 10 Aug 17 6.08pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

NK will rattle their sabres, the US will rattle theirs - both sides will talk big, but most likely its a cover for the compromise solution both are negotiating behind the scenes.

You're right about the first part, but the big difference here is that Trump is a big enough baby that he'll nuke someone before looking bad on Twitter, and now it's his understaffed and inexperienced State Department is doing the behind the scenes work.

If only Jared didn't have so much on his plate...

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays 10 Aug 17 6.09pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Actually, it's 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking desperately to avoid conflict, but unable to back away from threatening each other as it's the sole means to maintain domestic credibility. And when NK's response to Trump seems more reasonable than his "fire and fury" alliteration, then we're all - but especially Seoul - f***ed. North Korea and the US. [Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Aug 17 6.09pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Actually, it's 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking desperately to avoid conflict, but unable to back away from threatening each other as it's the sole means to maintain domestic credibility.

And when NK's response to Trump seems more reasonable than his "fire and fury" alliteration, then we're all - but especially Seoul - f***ed.

North Korea and the US.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Houston 10 Aug 17 6.10pm
Originally posted by matt_himself What did Obama do to address the issue during his tenure in the White House? The key development of their weapons capability happened during his Presidency. Push for more international sanctions, covertly sabotage North Korea’s missiles, provide defense systems to North Korea’s neighbors, and call on China’s leaders to do more to pressure Kim. [Link] But the nuclear cat was out of the bag a couple of years before he took office, so it's been a succession of failed efforts to corral NK over decades. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 10 Aug 17 6.10pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

What did Obama do to address the issue during his tenure in the White House? The key development of their weapons capability happened during his Presidency.

Push for more international sanctions, covertly sabotage North Korea’s missiles, provide defense systems to North Korea’s neighbors, and call on China’s leaders to do more to pressure Kim. [Link]

But the nuclear cat was out of the bag a couple of years before he took office, so it's been a succession of failed efforts to corral NK over decades.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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steeleye20 Croydon 10 Aug 17 6.26pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Only going from what I've read/seen from news sources (non-fake ones), but this is a conventional strike capability to take out NK's conventional and ballistic missile launch sites. The problem is that NK has chemical and biological weapons and is not expect to display any reticence in using them. Seoul is less than a minute's conventional missile flight time from the border, so Jong Un could kill millions there before anyone knew what was happening. I think 30+ million people live in Seoul. There is a missile defense system in place, but it only needs a couple of those b******s to get through... As for NK's nuclear threat, it's clearly growing but there's a lot they have to do to actually be able to lob nukes at anyone other than South Korea or Japan. The latest squawking the result of intelligence claiming that they have shrunk their nukes such that they'll fit on their missiles - which is scary but still not 100% confirmed. This report comes out of the Defense Intelligence Agency and - while it has not necessarily been disputed - it has also not been roundly endorsed by other intelligence agencies. In 2013, Obama's DIA went ballistic (pun intended) claiming the exact same thing, but it was completely false and the head of the DIA lost his job as a result (that guy was Michael Flynn...yep, same guy). So, IF they can put a nuke on a missile and IF they can get the missile to launch and IF it has the range such that they can angle it enough to reach across the continents and IF it can survive re-entry and IF they can keep it on target and IF it actually detonates as required...then there is significant cause for worry. The smart money is on NK not being there yet. Yet... Interesting
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steeleye20

Croydon 10 Aug 17 6.26pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Only going from what I've read/seen from news sources (non-fake ones), but this is a conventional strike capability to take out NK's conventional and ballistic missile launch sites.

The problem is that NK has chemical and biological weapons and is not expect to display any reticence in using them. Seoul is less than a minute's conventional missile flight time from the border, so Jong Un could kill millions there before anyone knew what was happening. I think 30+ million people live in Seoul. There is a missile defense system in place, but it only needs a couple of those b******s to get through...

As for NK's nuclear threat, it's clearly growing but there's a lot they have to do to actually be able to lob nukes at anyone other than South Korea or Japan. The latest squawking the result of intelligence claiming that they have shrunk their nukes such that they'll fit on their missiles - which is scary but still not 100% confirmed. This report comes out of the Defense Intelligence Agency and - while it has not necessarily been disputed - it has also not been roundly endorsed by other intelligence agencies. In 2013, Obama's DIA went ballistic (pun intended) claiming the exact same thing, but it was completely false and the head of the DIA lost his job as a result (that guy was Michael Flynn...yep, same guy).

So, IF they can put a nuke on a missile and IF they can get the missile to launch and IF it has the range such that they can angle it enough to reach across the continents and IF it can survive re-entry and IF they can keep it on target and IF it actually detonates as required...then there is significant cause for worry. The smart money is on NK not being there yet. Yet...

Interesting

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Sportyteacher London 10 Aug 17 6.39pm
Originally posted by matt_himself Utter crap. Tackle the ball, not the player. I never profess to being correct with everything I say and welcome other opinions. I didn't say that Obama was blameless. You just continually spout out insults without providing substance to your opinion.
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Sportyteacher

London 10 Aug 17 6.39pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

Utter crap.

Tackle the ball, not the player. I never profess to being correct with everything I say and welcome other opinions. I didn't say that Obama was blameless. You just continually spout out insults without providing substance to your opinion.

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 10 Aug 17 6.47pm
Originally posted by Ray in Houston Actually, it's 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking desperately to avoid conflict, but unable to back away from threatening each other as it's the sole means to maintain domestic credibility. Fair point well made :-) Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 10 Aug 17 6.47pm

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Actually, it's 2 hopelessly inept demagogues looking desperately to avoid conflict, but unable to back away from threatening each other as it's the sole means to maintain domestic credibility.

Fair point well made :-)

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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matt_himself Matataland 10 Aug 17 7.51pm
Originally posted by Sportyteacher Tackle the ball, not the player. I never profess to being correct with everything I say and welcome other opinions. I didn't say that Obama was blameless. You just continually spout out insults without providing substance to your opinion. It's not an insult. It's a critique of your 'work'. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 10 Aug 17 7.51pm

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

It's not an insult. It's a critique of your 'work'.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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