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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Sep 17 5.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays As is probably known on here by now, I'm very pro the state in security matters but I look forward to the day that body cams are compulsory so that the state or indeed private companies can ensure that its actors perform its duties honestly...which I'm sure the vast majority of them do. It also acts as protection for that worker against false claims.....It all works unless the state or company sets unreasonable demands. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 5.16pm) This is what is of the utmost importance. Accountability, and quality. I don't want private police, because their accountability, is to a private company, who have split loyalties. The state, if its not directly accountable, will be inclined to devolving responsibility, and evading its duty to the people. If we are to hold people accountable for their transgressions, we should have hold the authorities that hold them accountable to similar scrutiny. Otherwise we end up with failing systems. Prison shouldn't be a system of detention, with a revolving door policy, in order to fulfil 'law and order' politicians. Its function should be to protect the public and rehabilitate offenders. Otherwise all we end up doing is putting people in prison for fixed amount of time and letting them go. The goal of release must be rehabilitation, not serving x amount of time. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 04 Sep 17 5.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As is probably known on here by now, I'm very pro the state in security matters but I look forward to the day that body cams are compulsory so that the state or indeed private companies can ensure that its actors perform its duties honestly...which I'm sure the vast majority of them do.

It also acts as protection for that worker against false claims.....It all works unless the state or company sets unreasonable demands.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 5.16pm)

This is what is of the utmost importance. Accountability, and quality. I don't want private police, because their accountability, is to a private company, who have split loyalties.

The state, if its not directly accountable, will be inclined to devolving responsibility, and evading its duty to the people.

If we are to hold people accountable for their transgressions, we should have hold the authorities that hold them accountable to similar scrutiny.

Otherwise we end up with failing systems. Prison shouldn't be a system of detention, with a revolving door policy, in order to fulfil 'law and order' politicians. Its function should be to protect the public and rehabilitate offenders.

Otherwise all we end up doing is putting people in prison for fixed amount of time and letting them go. The goal of release must be rehabilitation, not serving x amount of time.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 04 Sep 17 5.27pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The problem of the prison system is often that the individuals within it, are regarded as 'less important'. I suppose this is a difference between us. I don't believe in equality as a right. I believe in fairness instead. It's a subtle difference in emphasis. I believe that for the period of their confinement they are 'less important'. As for voters 'not being important to politicians'....well this happens anyway in many areas. I don't see how enacting reality matters...regulations should enable protections from any concerns..I feel that If you don't contribute to the system, then you shouldn't have a right to change it.....by the way I'd add to the exceptions women raising children to a certain age..Or if it's the bloke at home doing it....as the raising of children is extremely important and undervalued in modern society compared to working....but if both of them aren't working....only one can vote. I'm rather enjoying this....This is like being Milo. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 5.30pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

04 Sep 17 5.27pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The problem of the prison system is often that the individuals within it, are regarded as 'less important'.

I suppose this is a difference between us. I don't believe in equality as a right. I believe in fairness instead. It's a subtle difference in emphasis.

I believe that for the period of their confinement they are 'less important'.

As for voters 'not being important to politicians'....well this happens anyway in many areas. I don't see how enacting reality matters...regulations should enable protections from any concerns..I feel that If you don't contribute to the system, then you shouldn't have a right to change it.....by the way I'd add to the exceptions women raising children to a certain age..Or if it's the bloke at home doing it....as the raising of children is extremely important and undervalued in modern society compared to working....but if both of them aren't working....only one can vote.

I'm rather enjoying this....This is like being Milo.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 5.30pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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elgrande bedford 04 Sep 17 5.34pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] G4S prison riot in HMP Birmingham. Austerity, understaffing, low morale , no doubt cronyism , poor conditions and profits before prisoners all mixed together is a toxic mix in a jail. I think you will find it's because the smoking ban came in on the first of September. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.
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elgrande

bedford 04 Sep 17 5.34pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]
G4S prison riot in HMP Birmingham.
Austerity, understaffing, low morale , no doubt cronyism , poor conditions and profits before prisoners all mixed together is a toxic mix in a jail.

I think you will find it's because the smoking ban came in on the first of September.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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Hrolf The Ganger 04 Sep 17 6.43pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Detention and prison services should be accountable, and only the operation of the state. The very idea that companies can profit from detaining people is absurd. Only the state should have the power and the authority to detain individuals, and the responsibility for their care and rights during that time can only be that of the states. To turn this into a 'for profit' outsourced scheme defeats the concept of state accountability for its authority and power. Only the state can have the power to take away someone's freedom, and only the state can be responsible for those people and their detention. Prisoners (of all kinds) represent vulnerable people in society by nature of their seclusion and controlled environments. It must surely fall upon the state to be responsible for such people, directly. . 100% correct.
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Hrolf The Ganger

04 Sep 17 6.43pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Detention and prison services should be accountable, and only the operation of the state. The very idea that companies can profit from detaining people is absurd.

Only the state should have the power and the authority to detain individuals, and the responsibility for their care and rights during that time can only be that of the states.

To turn this into a 'for profit' outsourced scheme defeats the concept of state accountability for its authority and power.

Only the state can have the power to take away someone's freedom, and only the state can be responsible for those people and their detention.

Prisoners (of all kinds) represent vulnerable people in society by nature of their seclusion and controlled environments. It must surely fall upon the state to be responsible for such people, directly.

.
100% correct.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Sep 17 7.17pm
Originally posted by elgrande I think you will find it's because the smoking ban came in on the first of September. Indeed.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Sep 17 7.17pm

Originally posted by elgrande

I think you will find it's because the smoking ban came in on the first of September.

Indeed.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Sep 17 7.45pm
Bring back hanging, that would reduce the prison population. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 04 Sep 17 7.45pm

Bring back hanging, that would reduce the prison population.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Stirlingsays 04 Sep 17 8.11pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Bring back hanging, that would reduce the prison population. Only by a tiny amount. Proper jobs would have a far better impact. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

04 Sep 17 8.11pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Bring back hanging, that would reduce the prison population.

Only by a tiny amount.

Proper jobs would have a far better impact.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 04 Sep 17 8.12pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger . 100% correct. Well yeah....but I'm still not giving prisoners the vote. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 8.13pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

04 Sep 17 8.12pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

.
100% correct.

Well yeah....but I'm still not giving prisoners the vote.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 8.13pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 04 Sep 17 8.40pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well yeah....but I'm still not giving prisoners the vote. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 8.13pm) They're suffering enough without having to put up with Jeremy Corbyn knocking on their cell doors canvassing for votes. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 04 Sep 17 8.40pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well yeah....but I'm still not giving prisoners the vote.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Sep 2017 8.13pm)

They're suffering enough without having to put up with Jeremy Corbyn knocking on their cell doors canvassing for votes.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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braunstoneagle the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 04 Sep 17 8.54pm
Originally posted by nickgusset [Link] G4S prison riot in HMP Birmingham. Austerity, understaffing, low morale , no doubt cronyism , poor conditions and profits before prisoners all mixed together is a toxic mix in a jail. suprised bbc even reported that...normally the issues within "the forgotten service" is hushed up. to be fair its got nothing to do with privatisation on this account...try & enforce a smoking ban onto a prison population full of smokers, especially when "burn" is the main currency what do you expect, 50g pouch going for £100...gonna cause problems. i hope to god im wrong but i predict this situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better ‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway
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braunstoneagle

the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 04 Sep 17 8.54pm

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Originally posted by nickgusset

[Link]
G4S prison riot in HMP Birmingham.
Austerity, understaffing, low morale , no doubt cronyism , poor conditions and profits before prisoners all mixed together is a toxic mix in a jail.

suprised bbc even reported that...normally the issues within "the forgotten service" is hushed up.

to be fair its got nothing to do with privatisation on this account...try & enforce a smoking ban onto a prison population full of smokers, especially when "burn" is the main currency what do you expect, 50g pouch going for £100...gonna cause problems.

i hope to god im wrong but i predict this situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better

‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 04 Sep 17 9.11pm
Originally posted by braunstoneagle suprised bbc even reported that...normally the issues within "the forgotten service" is hushed up. to be fair its got nothing to do with privatisation on this account...try & enforce a smoking ban onto a prison population full of smokers, especially when "burn" is the main currency what do you expect, 50g pouch going for £100...gonna cause problems. i hope to god im wrong but i predict this situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better Has the ban come into effect in all prisons?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 04 Sep 17 9.11pm

Originally posted by braunstoneagle

suprised bbc even reported that...normally the issues within "the forgotten service" is hushed up.

i hope to god im wrong but i predict this situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better

Has the ban come into effect in all prisons?

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braunstoneagle the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 04 Sep 17 9.18pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Has the ban come into effect in all prisons? dont think so...to my knowledge cat a estate from today, dont know exactly when the green went smoke free, possibly officially today aswell. best to google if you want more info on it, these walls have ears ‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway
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braunstoneagle

the middle of bumf*** nowhere... 04 Sep 17 9.18pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Has the ban come into effect in all prisons?

dont think so...to my knowledge cat a estate from today, dont know exactly when the green went smoke free, possibly officially today aswell.

best to google if you want more info on it, these walls have ears

‘Football isn’t instant coffee. You have to work at it. You must grow the bean, grind it.’ Ian Holloway

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