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Our Daughter Holly

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Bexter By the Sea 12 Mar 04 3.27pm
still don't think you can or should be tried as an adult at 10. whether their sentence was long enough? i'm not sure.
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Bexter

By the Sea 12 Mar 04 3.27pm

still don't think you can or should be tried as an adult at 10. whether their sentence was long enough? i'm not sure.

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Meerkat 2 1957 12 Mar 04 3.44pm
Quote Bexter at 12 Mar 2004 3:27pm still don't think you can or should be tried as an adult at 10. whether their sentence was long enough? i'm not sure. The Bulger case was unique and the British legal system hadn't dealt with anything like it before. I'm not sure they should have been tried as adults either, a difficult call.
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Meerkat 2

1957 12 Mar 04 3.44pm

Quote Bexter at 12 Mar 2004 3:27pm

still don't think you can or should be tried as an adult at 10. whether their sentence was long enough? i'm not sure.

The Bulger case was unique and the British legal system hadn't dealt with anything like it before. I'm not sure they should have been tried as adults either, a difficult call.

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the despotic banana Dept. of Baboon Maintenance 12 Mar 04 4.00pm
I'd just like to say, in light of some of the replies I recieved after my posts last night, that I am sorry if I angered or upset anyone. Maybe some of you thought my ideas to be too extreme, just as I find some of your opinions to be. I'm not a parent. I know many of you are and I know you love your children dearly and would do anything to protect them. Understand that I would never, ever wish any harm to befall them or you. How to treat paedophiles and child-abusers is, and the number of posts are a testament to this, a divisive issue. I don't want to be drawn into another long-winded argument so I'll try to avoid saying anything more contentious. I'll end on this, the fact that I am heartened by the passion obviously felt by so many of you with regards to this subject. It shows we care. And it is this that will hopefully one day see a resolution to this problem, for better or worse. Ask me about Ronald de Boer.
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the despotic banana

Dept. of Baboon Maintenance 12 Mar 04 4.00pm

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I'd just like to say, in light of some of the replies I recieved after my posts last night, that I am sorry if I angered or upset anyone. Maybe some of you thought my ideas to be too extreme, just as I find some of your opinions to be.

I'm not a parent. I know many of you are and I know you love your children dearly and would do anything to protect them. Understand that I would never, ever wish any harm to befall them or you.

How to treat paedophiles and child-abusers is, and the number of posts are a testament to this, a divisive issue. I don't want to be drawn into another long-winded argument so I'll try to avoid saying anything more contentious. I'll end on this, the fact that I am heartened by the passion obviously felt by so many of you with regards to this subject. It shows we care. And it is this that will hopefully one day see a resolution to this problem, for better or worse.

Ask me about Ronald de Boer.

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JollyStef 12 Mar 04 4.18pm
Quote Bexter at 12 Mar 2004 3:19pm how many 10 year old torture to death animals and insects and all sorts? i don't want to say whether or not their treatment was right or wrong, but i don't believe your morality system is fully formed at 10. I see what you're saying .. but insects and a 5 years old kid is COMPLETELY different. My little boy is almost 4 years old now. If something would happen to him (heaven forbid) believe me it wouldn't matter to me if the killer was 10 or 30 ... You do know stuff when you're 10 ... finished
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JollyStef 12 Mar 04 4.18pm

Quote Bexter at 12 Mar 2004 3:19pm

how many 10 year old torture to death animals and insects and all sorts? i don't want to say whether or not their treatment was right or wrong, but i don't believe your morality system is fully formed at 10.

I see what you're saying .. but insects and a 5 years old kid is COMPLETELY different. My little boy is almost 4 years old now. If something would happen to him (heaven forbid) believe me it wouldn't matter to me if the killer was 10 or 30 ...

You do know stuff when you're 10 ...

finished

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Palace Hero Melbourne, Australia 12 Mar 04 4.29pm
I was 7 when James Bulger was killed, so I didn't know anything of it. But I remembered my mum mentioning how this beautiful boy was murdered. So after seeing the Bulger case mentioned here, I looked up articles on what happened. I must say, never have I heard of such an eerie, and sickening crime in my life. Just what went on that afternoon blows my mind, how 10 year olds can do that, what went through the mind of little James, what exactly did they do. The whole thing has drilled a hole in my heart. I can't imagine what it would have been like had I experienced the thing in real time.
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Palace Hero

Melbourne, Australia 12 Mar 04 4.29pm

I was 7 when James Bulger was killed, so I didn't know anything of it. But I remembered my mum mentioning how this beautiful boy was murdered.

So after seeing the Bulger case mentioned here, I looked up articles on what happened. I must say, never have I heard of such an eerie, and sickening crime in my life. Just what went on that afternoon blows my mind, how 10 year olds can do that, what went through the mind of little James, what exactly did they do.

The whole thing has drilled a hole in my heart. I can't imagine what it would have been like had I experienced the thing in real time.

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 12 Mar 04 4.31pm
Hello Stef, good to see you posting on here again. I don't have a problem with ten year old being tried in an adult court, I mean, the law of the land is the law of the land, if people want to give kids the same rights as adults they should also be treated the same as adults when it all backfires. When I was ten I broke a window with a catapult, I knew it was wrong, but I did it anyway and when my dad found out he made sure my arse knew I'd done wrong! Funny though, it never crossed my mind to kill a little boy and leave him on railway lines, in fact even at ten I stepped OVER ants! If Their souls are black as pitch at ten, they aint gonna be pure at eighteen. Monsters! Edited by Petealiator (12 Mar 2004 4:33pm) My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 12 Mar 04 4.31pm

Hello Stef, good to see you posting on here again.

I don't have a problem with ten year old being tried in an adult court, I mean, the law of the land is the law of the land, if people want to give kids the same rights as adults they should also be treated the same as adults when it all backfires. When I was ten I broke a window with a catapult, I knew it was wrong, but I did it anyway and when my dad found out he made sure my arse knew I'd done wrong! Funny though, it never crossed my mind to kill a little boy and leave him on railway lines, in fact even at ten I stepped OVER ants! If Their souls are black as pitch at ten, they aint gonna be pure at eighteen. Monsters!

Edited by Petealiator (12 Mar 2004 4:33pm)

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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Mr Statto Ifield 12 Mar 04 5.21pm
Quote jcreedy at 12 Mar 2004 3:24pm Sorry Bexter, thats not right. You know whats right and whats wrong at 10 years old. You may have known, but that's part of the problem with this country - many kids are not being brought up to know right from wrong. The schools blame the parents, the parents blame the schools, but no-one does anything about it. That's just the ramblings of a madman
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Mr Statto

Ifield 12 Mar 04 5.21pm

Quote jcreedy at 12 Mar 2004 3:24pm

Sorry Bexter, thats not right. You know whats right and whats wrong at 10 years old.

You may have known, but that's part of the problem with this country - many kids are not being brought up to know right from wrong. The schools blame the parents, the parents blame the schools, but no-one does anything about it.

That's just the ramblings of a madman

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Petealiator 1066 Country! 12 Mar 04 5.53pm
Quote Mr Statto at 12 Mar 2004 5:21pm Quote jcreedy at 12 Mar 2004 3:24pm Sorry Bexter, thats not right. You know whats right and whats wrong at 10 years old. You may have known, but that's part of the problem with this country - many kids are not being brought up to know right from wrong. The schools blame the parents, the parents blame the schools, but no-one does anything about it. Spot on Statto! My Rocksteady band... [Link] [Link] IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!
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Petealiator

1066 Country! 12 Mar 04 5.53pm

Quote Mr Statto at 12 Mar 2004 5:21pm

Quote jcreedy at 12 Mar 2004 3:24pm

Sorry Bexter, thats not right. You know whats right and whats wrong at 10 years old.

Spot on Statto!

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

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robbo Coventry 12 Mar 04 6.03pm
bring back the death penalty and get rid of all the scum or let the parents and family have 10mins with him/her alone in a room "GERTCHA" [Link]
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robbo

Coventry 12 Mar 04 6.03pm

bring back the death penalty and get rid of all the scum or let the parents and family have 10mins with him/her alone in a room

"GERTCHA"

[Link]

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rach_cpfc South Croydon 12 Mar 04 11.39pm
Woah, well just read this entire thread, and I'm pretty overwhelmed by everyone's honesty, don't quite know where to start. The Jamie Bulger case was an appauling one, I studied it a little during sixth-form. Yes, most 10-year-olds understand what is right and wrong. But the backgrounds that those kids had - especially Venables - seemed to have totally warped that view. It's horrible to think that a kid, and that's what they were, could do something like that, and if we're honest I don't think anyone really knows what's for the best in that kind of situation. As someone who works with 10-year-old kids at school, by instinctive reaction would be to want to try and help them, as there's obviously something very wrong, but what I'd do if they were honesty beyond help I just don't know. Let's just hope it's the kind of case like which our country doesn't have to deal with. I didn't watch the Holly Wells programme, I didn't think I'd be able to bear it and I don't even have children of my own yet. There is a lot of evil in this world, there's no denying that. Having said that paedophilia is not something new – as [somebody] said, it has always been despised so it must have been around – so I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to blame a “liberal” society. Personally, I find myself in the difficult stance of being quite liberal in many ways (like a lot of people my generation), but standing that view next to the conservativeness that comes from my Christian faith, and with that, clear views on what is right and wrong. I think this is the problem that the church faces in this country – trying to be accommodating yet also trying to put across the basic principle of the faith. I want to pretty much second what WWJD said on that subject, rather than add to it. When you hear the details of cases like the ones we’ve been discussing, I too sometimes feel overwhelmed by how up the creek this world seems to be going. (And yes, that’s the whole world, including Nigeria – a bit shocked by your comment Petealiotor). But I refuse to give up on our world, because I know there are a hell of a lot more good people in this world than evil ones. And I don’t agree with the death penalty, because I just don’t understand how showing people that killing people is wrong by killing people (oversimplified, I know) makes sense. Rather than harbouring hatred and revenge, there’s got to be a more positive way of going about sorting this place out. "....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."
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rach_cpfc

South Croydon 12 Mar 04 11.39pm

Woah, well just read this entire thread, and I'm pretty overwhelmed by everyone's honesty, don't quite know where to start.

The Jamie Bulger case was an appauling one, I studied it a little during sixth-form.
Yes, most 10-year-olds understand what is right and wrong. But the backgrounds that those kids had - especially Venables - seemed to have totally warped that view.
It's horrible to think that a kid, and that's what they were, could do something like that, and if we're honest I don't think anyone really knows what's for the best in that kind of situation. As someone who works with 10-year-old kids at school, by instinctive reaction would be to want to try and help them, as there's obviously something very wrong, but what I'd do if they were honesty beyond help I just don't know.
Let's just hope it's the kind of case like which our country doesn't have to deal with.

I didn't watch the Holly Wells programme, I didn't think I'd be able to bear it and I don't even have children of my own yet.
There is a lot of evil in this world, there's no denying that. Having said that paedophilia is not something new – as [somebody] said, it has always been despised so it must have been around – so I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to blame a “liberal” society.
Personally, I find myself in the difficult stance of being quite liberal in many ways (like a lot of people my generation), but standing that view next to the conservativeness that comes from my Christian faith, and with that, clear views on what is right and wrong. I think this is the problem that the church faces in this country – trying to be accommodating yet also trying to put across the basic principle of the faith. I want to pretty much second what WWJD said on that subject, rather than add to it.

When you hear the details of cases like the ones we’ve been discussing, I too sometimes feel overwhelmed by how up the creek this world seems to be going. (And yes, that’s the whole world, including Nigeria – a bit shocked by your comment Petealiotor). But I refuse to give up on our world, because I know there are a hell of a lot more good people in this world than evil ones. And I don’t agree with the death penalty, because I just don’t understand how showing people that killing people is wrong by killing people (oversimplified, I know) makes sense. Rather than harbouring hatred and revenge, there’s got to be a more positive way of going about sorting this place out.

"....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow
weary, they will walk and not be faint."

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Geoff Thomas Tonbridge - 13 Mar 04 12.33am
How anyone can defend Huntley is beyond me! He is a sick calculating pervert who deserves nothing short of a death penalty of which i firmly believe would be an easy way out for him. If he was in a middle Eastern country he would probably be stoned to death(good). Maybe i don`t or cannot understand mentally sick people but it must stem from somewhere. As mentioned above the family values have dissapeared in this country there is no discipline i society anymore and if parents cannot bring up their kids with any morals or give them a thick ear when they need it then im affraid society is just going to be awfull for the likes of my under 2 son. I was only saying to my wife the other day about simple good values in life ie Manners / Respect / Kindness and we both agreed that the parents are the major player in guiding our children. Unfortunatley as schools have changed where they cannot cane or punish children anymore like thay did in our school then the fear factor in children is not there and then it turns the opposite way ie the teacher fears the child. When i was young i was pertrified if a policeman or a teacher had a problem with either myself or friend and worst of all if ever my parents were to be contacted by either of them the shame alone would be punishment enough. Times have changed for the worse since i left school and i am sure that kids know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age probably under 10 as mentioed by Bexter above and in my opinion if the child doesn`t then the parents have got it wrong. I am not in favour of forgiveness when Murder in the sickest nature has happened to mere innocents who were helpless and in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe its because im not a religous person as i believe that they are the only ones who could forgive Huntley for his acts perhaps thats why i do not get involved in religion and rightly so. Before anyone gives it large anti death penalty comments just think for a second and think if only this could deter a few stupid killings it would be well worth it! GT Edited by Geoff Thomas (13 Mar 2004 12:35am) Eagles S* on Seagulls, Eagles S* on Seagulls, La La La La,! La La La La!
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Geoff Thomas

Tonbridge - 13 Mar 04 12.33am

How anyone can defend Huntley is beyond me!
He is a sick calculating pervert who deserves nothing short of a death penalty of which i firmly believe would be an easy way out for him.
If he was in a middle Eastern country he would probably be stoned to death(good).
Maybe i don`t or cannot understand mentally sick people but it must stem from somewhere.
As mentioned above the family values have dissapeared in this country there is no discipline i society anymore and if parents cannot bring up their kids with any morals or give them a thick ear when they need it then im affraid society is just going to be awfull for the likes of my under 2 son.
I was only saying to my wife the other day about simple good values in life ie Manners / Respect / Kindness and we both agreed that the parents are the major player in guiding our children.
Unfortunatley as schools have changed where they cannot cane or punish children anymore like thay did in our school then the fear factor in children is not there and then it turns the opposite way ie the teacher fears the child.
When i was young i was pertrified if a policeman or a teacher had a problem with either myself or friend and worst of all if ever my parents were to be contacted by either of them the shame alone would be punishment enough.
Times have changed for the worse since i left school and i am sure that kids know the difference between right and wrong at a very young age probably under 10 as mentioed by Bexter above and in my opinion if the child doesn`t then the parents have got it wrong.
I am not in favour of forgiveness when Murder in the sickest nature has happened to mere innocents who were helpless and in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Maybe its because im not a religous person as i believe that they are the only ones who could forgive Huntley for his acts perhaps thats why i do not get involved in religion and rightly so.
Before anyone gives it large anti death penalty comments just think for a second and think if only this could deter a few stupid killings it would be well worth it!

Edited by Geoff Thomas (13 Mar 2004 12:35am)

Eagles S*** on Seagulls, Eagles S*** on Seagulls,
La La La La,!
La La La La!

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becky over the moon 13 Mar 04 10.18pm
No, not even the religious have the authority forgive these crimes. Forgiveness is in the hands of God alone, and then only when there is repentance. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 13 Mar 04 10.18pm

No, not even the religious have the authority forgive these crimes. Forgiveness is in the hands of God alone, and then only when there is repentance.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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