This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
iheartcpfc SE25 08 Apr 15 6.49pm | |
---|---|
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm
From Hol poster Kersal "I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided. I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position. I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one. I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters. I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business. Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone: 1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms. 2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues". A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?" His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here". At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him. I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies. Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared. I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year. I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it. It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
iheartcpfc SE25 08 Apr 15 6.51pm | |
---|---|
Quote TheJudge at 05 Apr 2015 4.53pm
Quote nickgusset at 05 Apr 2015 2.32pm
Quote johnfirewall at 05 Apr 2015 1.51pm
I appreciate the alternate take on the subject, but even UKIP aren't interested in self sufficient migrants who are paying tax. Even Labour presented a pretty tough stance on the non working sort were they to win in May. 2 incidents in a year is pretty good. Old people on scooters will abuse just about anyone, and the other guy probably just resented the criticism of the NHS. I got abused for wearing a suit in Croydon once. Unfortunately it's easier for the system to identify non British nationals and prepare statistics and subsequently legislation where the public call for it based on that, rather than identify morons. It's shame UKIP have undermined any credibility by failing to oust the racists from the party. For many they're just the tame BNP and that's probably even why people have joined. Edited by johnfirewall (05 Apr 2015 1.54pm)
Get over yourself.
Do not listen to him.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 08 Apr 15 7.24pm | |
---|---|
Quote The Sash at 08 Apr 2015 3.16pm
If you want to experience some full on racial intimidation be a Brit in Belfast, Armagh or Londonderry...two fat f***ers on a scooter and nutter on the bus don't even come close yep,
Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 08 Apr 15 7.37pm | |
---|---|
Actually, while I'm on this, generally, we all don't act as well as we should & could. In the last 15 years, living in central Croydon, my wife has been physically assaulted twice (in a shop & at a train station) As bill & ted said KD
Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 08 Apr 15 7.43pm | |
---|---|
Quote reborn at 08 Apr 2015 6.14pm
Quote TheJudge at 08 Apr 2015 10.32am
Quote johnfirewall at 07 Apr 2015 11.06pm
Quote TheJudge at 07 Apr 2015 10.12pm
Quote reborn at 07 Apr 2015 6.22pm
Ahhh well, we are all WASPs so we won the lottery anyway. Fck everyone else.... *heavy sarcasm may be present in this post
'Everyone else' being the lefties who like to exaggerate inequality? A fair bit. Otherwise that's only group I've really heard that angle from and it's a daft reference. I think 'everyone else' appreciates this is Great Britain, not a New England country club. I think the point he's making though is that very few of us have it easy. Edited by johnfirewall (07 Apr 2015 11.06pm) I got the distinct impression that he is one of those lefties. Well according to an online test I took today I am 92% Conservative, so not sure that counts as leftie. Compassion for others isn't limited to the left.
There may have been a conversion on the Road to Damascus, but that type of comment surely show a poster who does not actually read what is written... after some of the arguments we had years ago. ROTFPMSL I might even change my signature. What's wrong with sn1gger??? Edited by pefwin (08 Apr 2015 7.43pm)
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 08 Apr 15 7.47pm | |
---|---|
Quote pefwin at 08 Apr 2015 7.43pm
Quote reborn at 08 Apr 2015 6.14pm
Quote TheJudge at 08 Apr 2015 10.32am
Quote johnfirewall at 07 Apr 2015 11.06pm
Quote TheJudge at 07 Apr 2015 10.12pm
Quote reborn at 07 Apr 2015 6.22pm
Ahhh well, we are all WASPs so we won the lottery anyway. Fck everyone else.... *heavy sarcasm may be present in this post
'Everyone else' being the lefties who like to exaggerate inequality? A fair bit. Otherwise that's only group I've really heard that angle from and it's a daft reference. I think 'everyone else' appreciates this is Great Britain, not a New England country club. I think the point he's making though is that very few of us have it easy. Edited by johnfirewall (07 Apr 2015 11.06pm) I got the distinct impression that he is one of those lefties. Well according to an online test I took today I am 92% Conservative, so not sure that counts as leftie. Compassion for others isn't limited to the left.
There may have been a conversion on the Road to Damascus, but that type of comment surely show a poster who does not actually read what is written... after some of the arguments we had years ago. ROTFPMSL I might even change my signature. What's wrong with sn1gger??? Edited by pefwin (08 Apr 2015 7.43pm)
(depends how new you are I guess)
Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
TUX redhill 08 Apr 15 7.47pm | |
---|---|
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm
From Hol poster Kersal "I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided. I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position. I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one. I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters. I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business. Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone: 1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms. 2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues". A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?" His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here". At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him. I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies. Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared. I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year. I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it. It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."
This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
iheartcpfc SE25 08 Apr 15 8.38pm | |
---|---|
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 7.47pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm
From Hol poster Kersal "I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided. I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position. I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one. I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters. I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business. Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone: 1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms. 2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues". A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?" His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here". At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him. I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies. Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared. I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year. I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it. It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."
This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
TUX redhill 08 Apr 15 9.51pm | |
---|---|
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 8.38pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 7.47pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
Quote Kermit8 at 04 Apr 2015 9.06pm
From Hol poster Kersal "I have tried to resist posting on these topics for a while but it is really getting to a point where I think perhaps it's best that a bit perspective from the "immigrant" side is provided. I have been working in London for 4.5 years now. I work in telecommunications and provide consultancy to all around the world. I work with almost all large telecom companies in the world. I have a master's and doctorate earned in the US and moved to London to advance my career in companies with a global reach, as well as for personal reasons. Today, I am an important part of my company in a managerial position. I am not a member of the EU and do not hold a "privileged" passport. My son is born in London. He doesn't have a UK passport, either, because he's not entitled to one. I have no right to access public funds; this mainly means no benefits. I pay all of my taxes in full. Due to my nationality, I even report to the police whenever my visa needs to renewed or if I move to a new address; I find this a bit insulting but take it on the chin. I understand that security matters. I am happy to be in the UK; it's a great place to work as it is the business capital of the world. Many global companies are HQ'ed here and provide jobs to many people from many nationalities depending on their skills. My nationality and ties with the business in certain parts of the world, for instance, helps contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds every year to a particular UK business. Hoping that I have been able to draw an image of myself needed from an "immigration" perspective, I want to describe two things that happened to me in the last year alone: 1- My parents came to visit my family here - to see their grandson actually. We were taking my son to the zoo. I was walking arm in arm with my father (who is blind) and talking to him in a different language than English. A person in a senior scooter and his wife began to say "look at these fecking immigrants, coming here and taking all the money; I wish you just fecked off to where you came from". At first, I didn't even sense that this was about me and my family. Then when I realized that it was, I was terrified. I was probably contributing to his benefits and his scooter, but he was fuming at me. My wife pinched my arm to stop me from reacting and I did not. Given that we were at a red light waiting to cross, I took a good one minute of "feck off"s in different forms. 2- I was in the bus going from Waterloo to Aldwych early morning, peak-time. My wife was reading news about that child whose parents kidnapped her for proton therapy. I said, "good for the parents, takes a lot of guts but you do whatever's needed for your child". Then my wife said "it's unbelievable they don't have it in London yet and they do in the Czech Republic" (or sth like that). I said to her, "yes, I hear that there are resource allocation issues in England; where money should be invested in NHS vs. too many benefits that are misallocated. Plus medical innovations are always a tricky thing with legacy practices winning due to liability issues". A guy standing above me abruptly said with the most sarcastic of smiles, "I presume you're English?". I said "no, but I think I should prepare for an immigrant rant here?". He said "no this is not ranting, you seem to know a lot about England without being English". I said, "I love England but does that deprive me of talking about public services and stuff like that? Can I not criticize anything for instance?" His response was: "no, of course you can, I just wish you weren't here". At this point, heads were shaking around us; I want to believe out of disbelief of what they were hearing. Again, my wife pinched my arm. I told him that he looked like a normal human being on the outside but that inside he was empty. He said, "I just wish you weren't here". I couldn't come up with anything clever in the 15 seconds I had left before my station; neither did I want to fight with him. I want to ask you one thing. Let's say I have my own reasons to be upset about these incidents and although I wonder how some of you would have felt if the same things happened to you to start with, I will not dwell on an expectation of your sympathies. Also, think of the following. If this were to happen, I would calm my son down. We don't live in a neighborhood with an ethnic bias, so he could be "protected". But imagine if a child or a family hears this and takes it back to his/her neighborhood, where hundreds of people breed on and reinforce hatred like this. This is how you make extremists if the mind is not prepared. I see the UK and London as a wonderful place to settle and hopefully call my home. It's not like the UK opens its arms to me by the way; I deserve my right to live here (at least from a legal perspective) when I prove that I contributed year after year. I would appreciate it if you did not respond with "feck off" even if you think I should. It really hurts to hear it. It took me a lot of courage to write this and until the last second, I contemplated deleting all of it. So, please go easy."
This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
Shouldn't you be in bed by now? I too (along with my family) have been a tax paying immigrant in the past (8yrs, not 4.5) and I could mention way more than 2 examples. That was a monthly occurrence tbh. So I speak from experience. Oh well. These things happen.
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
iheartcpfc SE25 08 Apr 15 10.03pm | |
---|---|
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 9.51pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 8.38pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 7.47pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
This is a great post. I find the scapegoating of immigrants disgusting. UKIP in particular have a lot to answer for. I'm ashamed that there are people who speak to others like this in our country, minority or otherwise. This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
Shouldn't you be in bed by now? I too (along with my family) have been a tax paying immigrant in the past (8yrs, not 4.5) and I could mention way more than 2 examples. That was a monthly occurrence tbh. So I speak from experience. Oh well. These things happen. Never will understand immigrants who pull up the drawbridge behind them
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Stirlingsays 08 Apr 15 10.10pm | |
---|---|
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 10.03pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 9.51pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 8.38pm
Quote TUX at 08 Apr 2015 7.47pm
Quote iheartcpfc at 08 Apr 2015 6.49pm
This is a great post. I find the scapegoating of immigrants disgusting. UKIP in particular have a lot to answer for. I'm ashamed that there are people who speak to others like this in our country, minority or otherwise. This is faaaaaaaaaar from a great post. It's pathetic. Edited by TUX (08 Apr 2015 8.16pm)
Shouldn't you be in bed by now? I too (along with my family) have been a tax paying immigrant in the past (8yrs, not 4.5) and I could mention way more than 2 examples. That was a monthly occurrence tbh. So I speak from experience. Oh well. These things happen. Never will understand immigrants who pull up the drawbridge behind them He isn't suggesting the drawbridge should be pulled up. You don't appear to have understood his post at all. What you do appear to be doing is insulting people who don't agree with you and being generally unpleasant. Perhaps your yellow card is well earned.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
imbored UK 08 Apr 15 10.37pm | |
---|---|
Quote Stirlingsays at 08 Apr 2015 6.42pm
Quote imbored at 08 Apr 2015 11.21am
Quote matt_himself at 07 Apr 2015 6.50pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 07 Apr 2015 9.48am
From what I have seen living in West Croydon the past 5 years, racism between ethnic groups is as rife if not more so- especially between African and Carribean people. I still firmly believe the UK is one of the most tolerant countries in the world.
ghanians hate Nigerians. French speaking Africans hate English speaking Africans. Arab Africans hate black Africans. African women hate 'fat Caribbean women who wear to little'. It's quite entertaining but also eye opening. If we said 'blacks hate whites' or 'whites hate blacks' that would of course be deemed sweeping and racist. Yes there are problems between communities but it's still a minority of people. Just as it is with any race, any demographic.
Racism itself doesn't have a colour. Meaning if the majority are black then whites suffer the brunt of racism and vice versa? Yes I'd agree with that. Minorities are often at a disadvantage. In that scenario you were the minority. Evidently you got out. Of course the lesson to be learned is to treat those 'up against it' with empathy and fairness, rather than attack or laud over minorities. Easier said than done when people are in an advantageous position, like those on the estate, or sometimes those who get out of such situations. Often the abused becomes the abuser. An easy trap to fall into. Edited by imbored (08 Apr 2015 10.56pm)
|
|
Alert a moderator to this post |
Registration is now on our new message board
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.