Times Tables failure = forced academy.

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Times Tables failure = forced academy.

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chris123 hove actually 10 Mar 15 9.23pm
Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.09pm Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 1.06pm Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.49pm Quote Stuk at 10 Mar 2015 12.39pm Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.35pm [Link] This details transference of property and the money academy chains are making through selling off 'excess' land for profit. I said "credible" and "unbiased". Try again. But even the link says August 2012, so it's steam rolling ahead clearly.... Which of the facts in the article are wrong? Are any articles unbiased? Using that logic this must be just as valid. It even uses evidence rather than mostly citing other blog posts written by the same person. [Link] I would like to see how free schools do in comparison to non-free schools when the next set of results come out (later this year I think); whether they have a demographic advantage (currently the evidence seems to says no, but there is only a limited sample size); and whether they have been set up in areas of need (again the evidence is too limited to draw full conclusions, but suggests they have been). Once more data is available I think it will be reasonable to judge. On the other side, I would like to see actual evidence that having a teacher training certificate makes someone a better teacher, and whether comprehensive schools actually did better for their pupils' education than the old system of grammar and technical schooling. Which at least let students excel in an area of aptitude rather than trying to pretend they were all essentially the same. Something that is patently silly. According to this [Link] the policy exchange (Tory funded, founded by Gove) research on free schools is seriously flawed. Edited by nickgusset (10 Mar 2015 9.14pm) Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions. Charity Registration Number: 1096300
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chris123

hove actually 10 Mar 15 9.23pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.09pm

Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 1.06pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.49pm

Quote Stuk at 10 Mar 2015 12.39pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.35pm

[Link]

This details transference of property and the money academy chains are making through selling off 'excess' land for profit.

I said "credible" and "unbiased". Try again.

But even the link says August 2012, so it's steam rolling ahead clearly....

Which of the facts in the article are wrong?

Are any articles unbiased?

Using that logic this must be just as valid. It even uses evidence rather than mostly citing other blog posts written by the same person.

[Link]

I would like to see how free schools do in comparison to non-free schools when the next set of results come out (later this year I think); whether they have a demographic advantage (currently the evidence seems to says no, but there is only a limited sample size); and whether they have been set up in areas of need (again the evidence is too limited to draw full conclusions, but suggests they have been). Once more data is available I think it will be reasonable to judge.

On the other side, I would like to see actual evidence that having a teacher training certificate makes someone a better teacher, and whether comprehensive schools actually did better for their pupils' education than the old system of grammar and technical schooling. Which at least let students excel in an area of aptitude rather than trying to pretend they were all essentially the same. Something that is patently silly.

According to this [Link] the policy exchange (Tory funded, founded by Gove) research on free schools is seriously flawed.

Edited by nickgusset (10 Mar 2015 9.14pm)

Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions.

Charity Registration Number: 1096300

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 9.29pm
Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions. Charity Registration Number: 1096300 Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation). Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 10 Mar 15 9.29pm

Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm

Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions.

Charity Registration Number: 1096300

Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation).

Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.)

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NickinOX Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.38pm
Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.09pm Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 1.06pm Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.49pm Quote Stuk at 10 Mar 2015 12.39pm Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.35pm [Link] This details transference of property and the money academy chains are making through selling off 'excess' land for profit. I said "credible" and "unbiased". Try again. But even the link says August 2012, so it's steam rolling ahead clearly.... Which of the facts in the article are wrong? Are any articles unbiased? Using that logic this must be just as valid. It even uses evidence rather than mostly citing other blog posts written by the same person. [Link] I would like to see how free schools do in comparison to non-free schools when the next set of results come out (later this year I think); whether they have a demographic advantage (currently the evidence seems to says no, but there is only a limited sample size); and whether they have been set up in areas of need (again the evidence is too limited to draw full conclusions, but suggests they have been). Once more data is available I think it will be reasonable to judge. On the other side, I would like to see actual evidence that having a teacher training certificate makes someone a better teacher, and whether comprehensive schools actually did better for their pupils' education than the old system of grammar and technical schooling. Which at least let students excel in an area of aptitude rather than trying to pretend they were all essentially the same. Something that is patently silly. According to this [Link] the policy exchange (Tory funded, founded by Gove) research on free schools is seriously flawed. Edited by nickgusset (10 Mar 2015 9.14pm) This criticism is coming from someone who cited a blogger citing his own blogs as evidence. You've now linked another blog site. Come on Nick, that is fallacious on multiple levels. So what that the website I posted is run by a right of center policy think tank. That does not automatically make what they say wrong, or right. Their research is published and can be properly fact checked. Whether they are correct or not, I have no idea. However, and whether I agree with their argument or not, that they conducted research which is available for review tells me they at least make a legitimate case. If you are going to claim something is wrong, explain why your argument holds water and provide some evidence to support it. If all you are going to offer are ad hominem attacks from blog sites, you clearly have no real argument. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.38pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.09pm

Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 1.06pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.49pm

Quote Stuk at 10 Mar 2015 12.39pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 12.35pm

[Link]

This details transference of property and the money academy chains are making through selling off 'excess' land for profit.

I said "credible" and "unbiased". Try again.

But even the link says August 2012, so it's steam rolling ahead clearly....

Which of the facts in the article are wrong?

Are any articles unbiased?

Using that logic this must be just as valid. It even uses evidence rather than mostly citing other blog posts written by the same person.

[Link]

According to this [Link] the policy exchange (Tory funded, founded by Gove) research on free schools is seriously flawed.

Edited by nickgusset (10 Mar 2015 9.14pm)

This criticism is coming from someone who cited a blogger citing his own blogs as evidence. You've now linked another blog site. Come on Nick, that is fallacious on multiple levels.

So what that the website I posted is run by a right of center policy think tank. That does not automatically make what they say wrong, or right. Their research is published and can be properly fact checked. Whether they are correct or not, I have no idea. However, and whether I agree with their argument or not, that they conducted research which is available for review tells me they at least make a legitimate case.

If you are going to claim something is wrong, explain why your argument holds water and provide some evidence to support it. If all you are going to offer are ad hominem attacks from blog sites, you clearly have no real argument.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Alert a moderator to this post

NickinOX Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.40pm
Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions. Charity Registration Number: 1096300 Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation). Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.) This is all ad hominem. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.40pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm

Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm

Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions.

Charity Registration Number: 1096300

This is all ad hominem.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Alert a moderator to this post

legaleagle 10 Mar 15 9.41pm
Policy Exchange: [Link] A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around
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legaleagle

10 Mar 15 9.41pm

Policy Exchange:

[Link]

A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around

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NickinOX Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.42pm
Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.41pm Policy Exchange: [Link] A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around Again, so what? What is wrong with their actual argument. Where is their research flawed? If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.42pm

Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.41pm

Policy Exchange:

[Link]

A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around

Again, so what? What is wrong with their actual argument. Where is their research flawed?

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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TUX redhill 10 Mar 15 9.45pm
We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen?
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TUX

redhill 10 Mar 15 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

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legaleagle 10 Mar 15 9.46pm
. Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.46pm)
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legaleagle

10 Mar 15 9.46pm

Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.46pm)

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NickinOX Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.48pm
Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.41pm Policy Exchange: [Link] A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around Don't get me wrong, It is reasonable to ask the question, but surely it is relevant only if the evidence appears to be biased or the research is flawed. If you come to a fork in the road, take it.
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NickinOX

Sailing country. 10 Mar 15 9.48pm

Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.41pm

Policy Exchange:

[Link]

A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around

Don't get me wrong, It is reasonable to ask the question, but surely it is relevant only if the evidence appears to be biased or the research is flawed.

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

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legaleagle 10 Mar 15 9.49pm
Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 9.42pm Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.41pm Policy Exchange: [Link] A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around Again, so what? What is wrong with their actual argument. Where is their research flawed? I wasn't commenting on their research.I am not familiar with the minutiae of it.Rather,I was commenting on the "non partisan" nature of the charity in question, which is not entirely irrelevant when taking into account material published by such a charity. You are quite right that political inclination does not automatically make research invalid,but it is always appropriate to be aware of the potential biases of those commissioning/publishing it,from whatever side of the ideological spectrum,as much from the point of view of what aspects might not be included in the focus of the research as what is included. Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.52pm)
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legaleagle

10 Mar 15 9.49pm

Quote NickinOX at 10 Mar 2015 9.42pm

Quote legaleagle at 10 Mar 2015 9.41pm

Policy Exchange:

[Link]

A "non partisan" charity it may be,but in general terms it appears on the face of it hardly the most open minded people with no particular political sympathies around

Again, so what? What is wrong with their actual argument. Where is their research flawed?

I wasn't commenting on their research.I am not familiar with the minutiae of it.Rather,I was commenting on the "non partisan" nature of the charity in question, which is not entirely irrelevant when taking into account material published by such a charity. You are quite right that political inclination does not automatically make research invalid,but it is always appropriate to be aware of the potential biases of those commissioning/publishing it,from whatever side of the ideological spectrum,as much from the point of view of what aspects might not be included in the focus of the research as what is included.

Edited by legaleagle (10 Mar 2015 9.52pm)

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chris123 hove actually 10 Mar 15 9.55pm
Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions. Charity Registration Number: 1096300 Policy Exchange: an organisation established by Michael Gove and other leading Conservative Party members, and which describes itself as seeking “free market” solutions to public policy problems (i.e. privatisation). Although a registered charity, it does not release the names of its funders. Moreover, although its financial statement describes most of its spending as ‘research’, much of this appears to be devising and advocating Conservative Party policy. Indeed, its 2012-13 accounts boast of its influence on government policy including increasing chain-sponsored academies, the mandatory work scheme for unemployed people, and Prevent. (This report on free schools was funded particularly by Krishna Rao and Jeremy Isaacs of Goldmann Sachs, who also funded an earlier report on teachers’ performance pay.) Policy Exchange was first registered with the Charity Commission March 2003. Michael Gove is a former Chairman, but I think resigned when he became an MP
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chris123

hove actually 10 Mar 15 9.55pm

Quote nickgusset at 10 Mar 2015 9.29pm

Quote chris123 at 10 Mar 2015 9.23pm

Policy Exchange is an independent, non-partisan educational charity seeking free market and localist solutions to public policy questions.

Charity Registration Number: 1096300

Policy Exchange was first registered with the Charity Commission March 2003. Michael Gove is a former Chairman, but I think resigned when he became an MP

Alert a moderator to this post

jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Mar 15 10.35pm
Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright! How did that happen? Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence. Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Mar 15 10.35pm

Quote TUX at 10 Mar 2015 9.45pm

We are now 'a dumb' country producing 'dumb kids' but telling them they are bright!
How did that happen?

Probably because previous generations have a very misguided sense of their own generations intelligence.

Plenty of thick c**ts around in every generation.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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