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Seth On a pale blue dot 08 Dec 14 5.00pm
Quote Pawson Palace at 08 Dec 2014 4.56pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 4.36pm Quote Pussay Troll at 07 Dec 2014 11.18pm It's a proven fact low tax economies raise more tax overall. Interesting that Oxford Troll hasn't been back on the thread to provide the "facts" which he says prove his point about low tax economies raising more tax overall. He might support Oxford but obviously didn't go to uni there (or anywhere else I expect) otherwise he'd have a bit better idea about economics. He also wouldn't feel the need to lecture those of us who actually live in London, and not leafy Oxfordshire like him, about the levels of immigration which have apparently "swamped" areas of London, which he probably only reads about in the Daily Mail. I had LBC on at Saturday morning and a professor called in about this. One country I think was Japan slashed the top rate of tax from 60% down to 40% and revenues increased as less people tried to evade it because it was deemed to be a fairer rate. I can't remember the chaps name but will see if I can dig something up. If memory served, he argued a lower rate of income tax increases spending thus more demand for growth and tax collected through VAT and Corp tax as people enjoyed a better standard of living. Was quiet interesting actually but was busy doing other things when I had it on. I'd be interested to see that if you can dig it up Pawson's, although OknotOk's post a few back appears to make a lot of sense to me. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 08 Dec 14 5.00pm

Quote Pawson Palace at 08 Dec 2014 4.56pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 4.36pm

Quote Pussay Troll at 07 Dec 2014 11.18pm

It's a proven fact low tax economies raise more tax overall.

Interesting that Oxford Troll hasn't been back on the thread to provide the "facts" which he says prove his point about low tax economies raising more tax overall.

He might support Oxford but obviously didn't go to uni there (or anywhere else I expect) otherwise he'd have a bit better idea about economics. He also wouldn't feel the need to lecture those of us who actually live in London, and not leafy Oxfordshire like him, about the levels of immigration which have apparently "swamped" areas of London, which he probably only reads about in the Daily Mail.

I had LBC on at Saturday morning and a professor called in about this. One country I *think* was Japan slashed the top rate of tax from 60% down to 40% and revenues increased as less people tried to evade it because it was deemed to be a fairer rate.

I can't remember the chaps name but will see if I can dig something up.

If memory served, he argued a lower rate of income tax increases spending thus more demand for growth and tax collected through VAT and Corp tax as people enjoyed a better standard of living.

Was quiet interesting actually but was busy doing other things when I had it on.

I'd be interested to see that if you can dig it up Pawson's, although OknotOk's post a few back appears to make a lot of sense to me.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Dec 14 5.01pm
Quote matt_himself at 08 Dec 2014 4.55pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 4.46pm I don't think people are against the idea of paying tax, rather they're more against the way in which its spent (or wasted) on things like vanity projects and political egotism. Tax payers money is not just wasted on vanity projects and political egotism. It is wasted by those running public services. It has been proven that reducing public spending reduces waste and the waste that departments makes is criminal. Look at the recent news about the amount spent by the NHS on paracetamol. It was something like £5 a packet. Outrageous. I am not for the dismantling of public services but I think a dosage of private sector keeping costs down management will be of benefit to all concerned. How many paracetamol in the packet, what size and what strength? Is that the cost of the drugs, or the cost of dispensing the drug to patients in A+E or hospitals (when you figure in other costs). The private sector isn't as efficient as people tend to think either, and in many cases are a reason why government costs can be much higher. Government services will always cost more than the private counter parts, because the public will insist on higher standards in regards to operations and responsibility, which results in greater expenditure. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 08 Dec 14 5.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 08 Dec 2014 4.55pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 4.46pm

I don't think people are against the idea of paying tax, rather they're more against the way in which its spent (or wasted) on things like vanity projects and political egotism.

Tax payers money is not just wasted on vanity projects and political egotism. It is wasted by those running public services. It has been proven that reducing public spending reduces waste and the waste that departments makes is criminal. Look at the recent news about the amount spent by the NHS on paracetamol. It was something like £5 a packet. Outrageous.

I am not for the dismantling of public services but I think a dosage of private sector keeping costs down management will be of benefit to all concerned.

How many paracetamol in the packet, what size and what strength? Is that the cost of the drugs, or the cost of dispensing the drug to patients in A+E or hospitals (when you figure in other costs).

The private sector isn't as efficient as people tend to think either, and in many cases are a reason why government costs can be much higher.

Government services will always cost more than the private counter parts, because the public will insist on higher standards in regards to operations and responsibility, which results in greater expenditure.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stuk Top half 08 Dec 14 5.20pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 5.01pm Quote matt_himself at 08 Dec 2014 4.55pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 4.46pm I don't think people are against the idea of paying tax, rather they're more against the way in which its spent (or wasted) on things like vanity projects and political egotism. Tax payers money is not just wasted on vanity projects and political egotism. It is wasted by those running public services. It has been proven that reducing public spending reduces waste and the waste that departments makes is criminal. Look at the recent news about the amount spent by the NHS on paracetamol. It was something like £5 a packet. Outrageous. I am not for the dismantling of public services but I think a dosage of private sector keeping costs down management will be of benefit to all concerned. How many paracetamol in the packet, what size and what strength? Is that the cost of the drugs, or the cost of dispensing the drug to patients in A+E or hospitals (when you figure in other costs). The private sector isn't as efficient as people tend to think either, and in many cases are a reason why government costs can be much higher. Government services will always cost more than the private counter parts, because the public will insist on higher standards in regards to operations and responsibility, which results in greater expenditure. I don't agree. Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. The costs are higher because there's a chain of people/departments and pointless procedures invovled to do anything, which all add to costs. Whereas the private sector have to compete against others normally, resulting in lower costs. Not to mention being far more efficient, at anything. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 08 Dec 14 5.20pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 5.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 08 Dec 2014 4.55pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 08 Dec 2014 4.46pm

I don't think people are against the idea of paying tax, rather they're more against the way in which its spent (or wasted) on things like vanity projects and political egotism.

I am not for the dismantling of public services but I think a dosage of private sector keeping costs down management will be of benefit to all concerned.

How many paracetamol in the packet, what size and what strength? Is that the cost of the drugs, or the cost of dispensing the drug to patients in A+E or hospitals (when you figure in other costs).

The private sector isn't as efficient as people tend to think either, and in many cases are a reason why government costs can be much higher.

Government services will always cost more than the private counter parts, because the public will insist on higher standards in regards to operations and responsibility, which results in greater expenditure.

I don't agree. Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. The costs are higher because there's a chain of people/departments and pointless procedures invovled to do anything, which all add to costs. Whereas the private sector have to compete against others normally, resulting in lower costs.

Not to mention being far more efficient, at anything.

Optimistic as ever

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Seth On a pale blue dot 08 Dec 14 5.53pm
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 08 Dec 14 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Stuk Top half 08 Dec 14 8.24pm
Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 08 Dec 14 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

Optimistic as ever

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Seth On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 12.39am
Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 12.39am

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too.

I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link]

I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link]

The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Stuk Top half 09 Dec 14 1.36pm
Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 09 Dec 14 1.36pm

Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.

Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't.

He said the highest standards, not just high standards.

No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense.

Optimistic as ever

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Johnny Eagles berlin 09 Dec 14 1.47pm
Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. THe NHS is the 12th best healthcare system in Europe according to the European Health Consumer Index. [Link] ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 09 Dec 14 1.47pm

Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm

Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.

He said the highest standards, not just high standards.

THe NHS is the 12th best healthcare system in Europe according to the European Health Consumer Index.

[Link]

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Stuk Top half 09 Dec 14 2.23pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Dec 2014 1.47pm Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. THe NHS is the 12th best healthcare system in Europe according to the European Health Consumer Index. [Link] Well that was easy. Cheers, Johnny. Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 09 Dec 14 2.23pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Dec 2014 1.47pm

Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm

Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.

He said the highest standards, not just high standards.

THe NHS is the 12th best healthcare system in Europe according to the European Health Consumer Index.

[Link]

Well that was easy. Cheers, Johnny.

Optimistic as ever

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Seth On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 3.00pm
Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. This all came from your exchange with jamie which was about the cost to the NHS of a box of paracetamol. So we're talking about the NHS, not tarmac, lampposts or anything else. He actually said "higher standards" not the "highest standards". I've never heard of the European Health Consumer Index, but the report Johnny linked to conflicts with the Commonwealth Fund, whose findings I posted a link to a report about, who said the NHS was the most efficient in the world. "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 3.00pm

Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm

Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.

He said the highest standards, not just high standards.

This all came from your exchange with jamie which was about the cost to the NHS of a box of paracetamol. So we're talking about the NHS, not tarmac, lampposts or anything else.

He actually said "higher standards" not the "highest standards".

I've never heard of the European Health Consumer Index, but the report Johnny linked to conflicts with the Commonwealth Fund, whose findings I posted a link to a report about, who said the NHS was the most efficient in the world.

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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Johnny Eagles berlin 09 Dec 14 3.12pm
Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 3.00pm Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards. What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public. I expect better of you Stuk, I really do. It's not patronising. Outside of your own knowledge base none of us know if anything is to "the highest standards". Beside that I'm sure there's a hell of a lot of services that cost more in the private sector than their public counterparts, because the service is better. What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything. It bloody well is. Our "own knowledge" will contain experiences from many different contacts with health and other services here and in other countries over a lifetime. I reckon most people will be able to tell if they're getting high standards or not. I think I can and I think most other people can too. I've used private medical care on occasion and yes there's a lot more money in it but it's not always the best and sometimes the NHS has to mend the mistakes they make. One example of how privatised and deregulated services harm the NHS: [Link] I think we should "insist" on the best medical care our collective money can buy and not accept the privatisation of our NHS, which has been shown to the the most efficient health service in the world [Link] The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us. Don't be so melodramatic. The volume of public services is so vast that none of us would have a clue about 90% of it. Do you know the highest quality tarmac, trains, CAT scanners, lamp posts etc? No, you don't. He said the highest standards, not just high standards. No idea why you're going into a rant about the NHS, which I didn't even mention, but to say it is the best in the world, over and above any other country and/or every private facility is nonsense. Patriotic, but nonsense. This all came from your exchange with jamie which was about the cost to the NHS of a box of paracetamol. So we're talking about the NHS, not tarmac, lampposts or anything else. He actually said "higher standards" not the "highest standards". I've never heard of the European Health Consumer Index, but the report Johnny linked to conflicts with the Commonwealth Fund, whose findings I posted a link to a report about, who said the NHS was the most efficient in the world. Most efficient using what criteria? Do you mind posting it again or tell me exactly where I can find it? The NHS does lots of good stuff but I find the efficiency claim very surprising, given how centralised it is. The European Health Consumer Index is a regularly produced report by one of the leading providers of information about international healthcare. I used to work in healthcare marketing by the way. Before you think I'm sad enough to spend my free time reading these sorts of reports. ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 09 Dec 14 3.12pm

Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 3.00pm

Quote Stuk at 09 Dec 2014 1.36pm

Quote Seth at 09 Dec 2014 12.39am

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 8.24pm

Quote Seth at 08 Dec 2014 5.53pm

Quote Stuk at 08 Dec 2014 5.20pm

Firstly the public, for the most part, wouldn't have a clue about quality or standards.

What a tremendously patronising and insulting thing to say about the British public.

I expect better of you Stuk, I really do.

What we expect is the best that can be done within the respective budgets and don't "insist" on anything.

The NHS is publically funded, is the best in the world, and needs to stay that way, for the health of all of us.

He said the highest standards, not just high standards.

This all came from your exchange with jamie which was about the cost to the NHS of a box of paracetamol. So we're talking about the NHS, not tarmac, lampposts or anything else.

He actually said "higher standards" not the "highest standards".

Most efficient using what criteria? Do you mind posting it again or tell me exactly where I can find it?

The NHS does lots of good stuff but I find the efficiency claim very surprising, given how centralised it is.

The European Health Consumer Index is a regularly produced report by one of the leading providers of information about international healthcare.

I used to work in healthcare marketing by the way. Before you think I'm sad enough to spend my free time reading these sorts of reports.

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Seth On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 3.26pm
Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Dec 2014 3.12pm Most efficient using what criteria? Do you mind posting it again or tell me exactly where I can find it? The NHS does lots of good stuff but I find the efficiency claim very surprising, given how centralised it is. The European Health Consumer Index is a regularly produced report by one of the leading providers of information about international healthcare. I used to work in healthcare marketing by the way. Before you think I'm sad enough to spend my free time reading these sorts of reports. Here's the link again: [Link] I'm no expert and you obviously have a professional interest in this subject, but I do find it irritating when the NHS is attacked from the right, especially when the people doing the attacking have a vested interest in privatising our system because they want to make a profit from it. I'm not tarring you with that brush by the way and wonder what you make of the Commonwealth Fund report, if you can be sad enough to read another one Edited by Seth (09 Dec 2014 3.27pm) "You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16
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Seth

On a pale blue dot 09 Dec 14 3.26pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 09 Dec 2014 3.12pm

Most efficient using what criteria? Do you mind posting it again or tell me exactly where I can find it?

The NHS does lots of good stuff but I find the efficiency claim very surprising, given how centralised it is.

The European Health Consumer Index is a regularly produced report by one of the leading providers of information about international healthcare.

I used to work in healthcare marketing by the way. Before you think I'm sad enough to spend my free time reading these sorts of reports.

Here's the link again: [Link]

I'm no expert and you obviously have a professional interest in this subject, but I do find it irritating when the NHS is attacked from the right, especially when the people doing the attacking have a vested interest in privatising our system because they want to make a profit from it. I'm not tarring you with that brush by the way and wonder what you make of the Commonwealth Fund report, if you can be sad enough to read another one

Edited by Seth (09 Dec 2014 3.27pm)

"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down"
FA Cup MOTD 24/4/16

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