Ooops,confusion reigns!Ignore.

Everytime I get high I lay my head on my baby's breasts

For my money, this thread is far more exciting than Ade has been.

I've seen most of his performances this season (and last) and he's been either very, very average (at his best) or distinctly awful. His ball control has been missing that one essential ingredient: control. His passing: aimless. Threat in the goalmouth: laughable. In short he is a thoroughly incomplete footballer.

I know loads of you have faith in him, but which game did I miss that he shone at?

He may well have a proven track record but at the moment he can't play decent football. I've said before that the first team should not be used as a rehabilitation centre for damaged footballers. For my money he should have spent most of his time at Palace in the reserves until he started (hopefully) banging them in for fun. The trouble was that having forked out a shed-load for him the powers that be didn't want him languishing, unseen, in the reserves. So he has played first team football when he clearly wasn't good enough. And he was playing football with the kind of skill that makes Heskey look like Raul.

So the question for Kember is: Will Akinbuyi ever come good? Football has plenty of instances of players with outstanding track records with one club but who who never regain their past glories when they move on. No-one knows the answer. Do we hang on to him, pay him a fortune and watch a return on the investment in the form of a goal bonanza? Or do we hang on to him, pay him a fortune and watch money down the drain because he continues to stuff up on the pitch?

I'll go with Kember's decision because he is probably the only person at the Club who can make a really informed decision on AA. After all, he's seen him day in, day out - training, playing in matches, reserves etc etc etc.

TommyEagle, you ask for evidence to back up the "hes sh1t" posts people have made. Simple. The evidence is his performances at Palace. And based on his performances at Palace I'd be interested to read any evidence you have to support your contention that he's a good player. Which games did you come away from thinking "AA played another blinder today"? If you can name the games then either I've completely lost my critical faculties or you're living in some wierd parallel universe where AA is a class act.

When the time comes, I want die just like my Dad - at peace and asleep.
Not screaming and terrified.
Like his passengers.

Did you see his appalling miss after that headed goal against Cov on New Years Day?! SO he scored a goal?! Big deal...not to much to ask seeing as he's meant to be such a 'natural' goal scorer...! I never rated him at Bristol City as he was just a lump then and to accomodate such a striker you have to play a certain type of football normally...

Tommy I can't be asked with this son! If your angle is to reply to everything anyone posts so that you eventually have the last word then so be it! Fair play to ya! You see it one way the MAJORITY of us see it another way and don't feel the need to convince you as you sound like an old eccentric...

I for one can't be asked trying to convince you how sh*t he is as you only reply to the emotive elements of anyones posts anyway!

Bottom line is Kember has said he doesn't want him so that's good enough for me! Perhaps a bit rash of Kember but I want to see something very different to what I saw last season which was in parts pitiful e.g. no passion, strikers who couldn't hit a barn door, inept tactics, an injury list as long as some of Jon the Programme Sellers posts...!!! In short, if that means we don't play Akinbiyi then I'm happy and i probably speak for a fair few of us here...

Beagle and Snapperkain, good posts and good points (take note KAOS). I would agree with you both - in the time that AA has had at Palace I don't think he has shown himself the be the quality of striker we need. I would also agree that it is by no means certain that he possesses that quality. However, I maintain that Ade has not been given a fair chance at our club. I won't go into the reasons behind this yet again as I think we've gone over and over that ground.

AA's past form suggests that he could do a job for us though, and he should be given the chance to do it. I want to see him given a go when he is fully fit. It would be totally fair to expect him to work his way up through the reserves (and hopefully build up some confidence) as every other player would have to after a serious injury.

The other point is about Kember. Clearly he is in a better position to judge the player than any of us - as you rightly point out beagle, he works with the lad every day. However, I don't understand what "style" of player he thinks AA is. He certainly isn't a target man - he seems to want to beat players with pace and power. Ignoring quality for the moment, surely that sounds like the kind of "number 9" that SK keeps banging on about.

But even if we accept that AA just isn't going to be a part of SK's future plans for Palace, I can't see how it helps anyone to say that Akinbiyi doesn't "fit in" at our club. You just make the player lose confidence, and you bring down his (already low) price by telling the rest of the world that you don't want him. SK would do better to keep schtum, and work with Akinbiyi to get him back to full fitness. As I've said above this would be a no lose situation.

My reservations are about the way AA has been treated by the fans, and now the management.

Edited by TommyEagle (09 Jun 2003 3:17pm)

All the confidence in the world, all the confidence in the world!

".. in the time that AA has had at Palace I don't think he has shown himself the be the quality of striker we need" - good to hear you've seen sense and are agreeing with us TommyEagle.

you also say "AA's past form suggests that he could do a job for us though". Agreed, but also his more recent form (Leicester, Palace) suggests that he won't. Will he? Won't he? Will he? Wont he? Eeny, meeny, miney, mo, she loves me, she loves me not, ip, dip, sky blue etc etc. Who knows? I dont think he will - but would love to be proved wrong.

As for Kembers 'not fitting in' remark - put yourself in his position. Lets assume that Kember, unlike you TommyEagle, thinks AA won't come good. Lets also assume that he thinks his best years are behind him. What should he do? What sort of manager would he be if he was hanging onto a player he honestly believed wasn't up to the job just because he didn't want to hurt his feelings? We'd be calling for his head for crisakes!!! His job is to build a football team not pussy foot around Akinbuyi's fragile psyche.

You also ask has he been treated fairly by the club? A stonkingly good wage packet for p*sspoor form is more than fair. He joined us, played quite a few games, stuffed his knee up and then spent a long time off getting a knee operation by an expert in the States. The club stuck by him, (did we pay for it as well??) we helped with the post-op rehab - all the time paying him. We've brought him back to fitness. I think the club has been more than fair. As for the fans reaction: we all groan when a player stuffs up a pass or hoofs a ball over the goal. It doesn't matter if its Freedman or AA. For a player, the trick to not getting groaned at all the time is to try and not play like a donkey. AA may have attracted more criticism from some fans than most, but then, as you said TommyEagle, he has consistently shown himself not to be "...the quality of striker we need".

When the time comes, I want die just like my Dad - at peace and asleep.
Not screaming and terrified.
Like his passengers.

An interesting and well argued post Beagle. I would point out though, that I have not "seen sense" re: Akinbiyi's form for us. I have never claimed that based on what we have seen, he warrants a place in the Palace lineup.

My gripe with SK is not about him getting rid of AA: I'm not trying to say that SK should be forced to work with a player he doesn't want. If he doesn't think AA is up to the job or doesn't fit in with his style then he is at liberty to dispense with his services. That is entirely the manager's prorogative. The point I was trying to make though, is that it is bad management to go round in public announcing your lack of faith in any one player (see my points about Ferguson and Houllier earlier in the thread). In my opinion, a good manager keeps quiet and keeps working with the player, trying to build up his confidence. This way, at best you get a confident player who is pushing for the first team, and at worst you get a more salable asset.

I also think it is a moot point about the club sticking by him through his injury, because CPFC will have been contracturally obliged to. You can't just employ a player and then jump ship when he gets a long term injury. I obviously concede the point about AA being on a high wage, but again, that doesn't mean he forfeits his right to be given fair treatment by the fans.

If I may correct a misquote as well: I don't agree that AA has "consistently shown himself not to be '...the quality of striker we need'". I believe that from what we have seen of him, he hasn't shown himself to be the quality of striker we need, but I also believe that 11 starts is not enough of an opporunity to show how good a player he is, and I think the club management are being extremely short-sighted in not acknowledging this.

Edited by TommyEagle (09 Jun 2003 8:33pm)

All the confidence in the world, all the confidence in the world!