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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 24 9.14pm | |
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Apparently we must trust the courts when it finds in a manner that suits this particular individual's prejudices. However we must take his word for it when a court get things wrong in respect to him.....twice apparently. Amusing...if it weren't so transparent. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Mar 2024 9.14pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 07 Mar 24 9.16pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
The NATO bombing of the TV studios in Belgrade ticks all kinds of war crime boxes. A disgraceful attack. Yep, that was definitely a war crime....thought it at the time....and I wasn't even that politically engaged.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Matov 07 Mar 24 9.33pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yep, that was definitely a war crime....thought it at the time....and I wasn't even that politically engaged. 100%. Its only achievement was killing some poor sods working inside it. And NATO knew that. Yet they still targetted it. Denying an enemy the ability to produce what you might deem to be 'propaganda' is not a war-crime per se but you do so by hitting the actual transmitter towers. Not the studio's which are nowhere near those. Still it was NATO. And they can do no wrong (although what threat Serbia ever presented to a NATO country has never quite been proven but hey-ho, took old Billy Boy Clinton's sordid affair off the front pages).
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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PalazioVecchio south pole 07 Mar 24 9.44pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
So the idea that this guy has been jailed for a “thought crime” is right wing bs. It’s a barefaced lie of a pathetic excuse for someone trying to sow division. - tearing down statues
Edited by PalazioVecchio (07 Mar 2024 9.48pm)
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 24 10.22pm | |
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Different courts do different things. Things as different as chalk and cheese. Crown courts decide on criminal activities on the basis of beyond a reasonable doubt. Mr Melia was convicted in a Crown court. County courts decide civil claims. There’s no determination of guilt, innocence or fact. Just an assessment of merit. In my case I know beyond the slightest doubt the judge got his assessment wrong, which cost my insurer a lot of money, rewarded a fraudster and indirectly raised everyone’s insurance premiums. Celebrating fraud and having to pay more for insurance doesn’t appear to me to be wise. I just love the way that those who think they know better than anyone else about everything prove they don’t when challenging someone who was one of the only two people who really know the truth.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 07 Mar 24 10.25pm | |
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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio
- tearing down statues
Edited by PalazioVecchio (07 Mar 2024 9.48pm) I would take issue about at least half of those assertions but there’s no point. The point is that nobody claimed what the guy did was exclusive. Only that he did it.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Stirlingsays 08 Mar 24 7.33am | |
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Courts make assessments and then decide outcomes. Same process so no amount of waffling can defend a certain poster's double standards. To jail someone for two years on 'intent' marks this country out as not free. The protected classes and 'intent' laws are a crime against liberty in this country. They are laws on the books since Blair and thus are like a blink of an eye legally. I have contempt for them. However, for courts to find against a certain poster....two courts on separate occasions and situations finding against the same individual....I can only offer an opinion....and that opinion is that I'm not surprised. Seems that people opposed to his opinion are quite easy to find outside of this website as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2024 7.33am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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georgenorman 08 Mar 24 7.33am | |
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Threats to freedom of speech, writing and action, though often trivial in isolation, are cumulative in their effect and, unless checked, lead to a general disrespect for the rights of the citizen. [Orwell]
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Mar 24 8.34am | |
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Crown courts decide guilt or innocence and convict the guilty. Mr Melia was convicted of taking actions intended to produce reactions in others. Encouraging others to commit illegal acts is itself a crime. He was not convicted of simply thinking about something and intending at some time in the future to possibly take action. He was convicted of doing it. It was the actions that held the intentions. Mr Melia took the actions. As for myself. I have no idea why it is being suggested I have “lost” two cases. I have never been charged with one, let alone two. A civil claim, defended by my insurer, went against us recently. Prior to that the only cases I have been involved in were in the small claims court more than 20 years ago. Two were won. I lost a claim against a bank for excessive fees. The only other things have been reviews by a Tribunal and an appeal to an Ombudsman. Not Courts.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Stirlingsays 08 Mar 24 9.34am | |
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Assessments made on you by professionals regularly find against you. As I say I'm not surprised and judging by your contributions on this forum and revealed site character few others will be either. I and many others have never been in a court room of whatever variety. As for Melia the implication that he encouraged others to commit illegal acts wasn't what he was charged with for the simple fact that nothing he did encouraged illegal acts. He was convicted on publicly having opinions that the state doesn't like. You defend state action against people with opinions it doesn't like. No amount of waffle or attempts to bend the truth alters that. I view that as an extremist opinion as both the communists and fascists did the same thing. The country I grew up in didn't. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Mar 2024 9.44am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Mar 24 9.55am | |
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Running businesses tends to result in more necessity for the use of the courts to settle disputes than staying at home and occupying your time on football forums. My recent case was the first since I retired. It could have been settled by the insurers, who had total control over it that having been delegated contractually by the terms of the policy. They though decided to fight it as they too were convinced it was fraud and wanted to expose it. They believed they had a compelling witness in me. It would have been much cheaper for them to have settled. As this could have happened to any one of us this is a lesson for all. Not something to try to make personal due to a dislike. The statements on Mr Melia are factually incorrect. The Court convicted him on his actions not on his opinions.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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silvertop Portishead 08 Mar 24 9.57am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I know we don’t usually disagree but there is an interesting and actually quite important underlying issue in play here. Obviously I haven’t see the actual charges but it’s fair to assume that if he was found guilty of “intending to stir up racial hatred through the distribution of the stickers and encouraging racially aggravated criminal damage” then that’s what he was charged with. Not what was on the stickers, or whether it was factually accurate. Only what the intentions which lay behind their distribution were, together with encouraging others to indulge in racially aggravated criminal damage. It was the intentions and encouragement which were judged. Not the stickers themselves. They were merely part of the evidence. Evidence which according to the CPS summary was extensive and conclusive. I haven’t heard or read the policeman’s statement on the outcome so am unable to offer comment on what he said, whether it was accurate, full, or intended just to make points to others. Whatever was said doesn’t change what must have happened in Court. He was found guilty of intending to stir up racial hatred and encouraging others to commit criminal damage. Not of publishing stickers. I am not going to bother to look up the thread, but my dim memory was that it was you who posted the report with the police statement. Anyway, an analysis of the mental state or mens rea, the cogency of evidence, aggravating factors and so on are all parasitic elements of the critical core: the acts themselves or actus rea. Without the acts, there is nothing to aggravate, or evidence to amass to prove, or indeed thought and intention behind those acts to consider. In this case, as much as I detest this man and all he stands for, he took pains to stay on the side of the law. He published small stickers describing what he believed to be a supportable fact. There was no terrorism, there was no fear, there was nothing to provoke anything in anyone. Also, a civil claim in defamation would have failed as it would have been considered by a court as fair comment. Yet, it meets the stiffer criminal burden of proof? The racially aggravated criminal damage was not putting a brick through a mosque or synagogue - acts of the sort intended by the legislature to deter - it was handing out small stickers to be placed on lampposts. TWO YEARS prison for those acts is madness.
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