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London town block fire
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 Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 20 Sep 17 11.53pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
It's only *Bantz* off to bed you. I don't know how you manage to cram so much crap into 24 hours
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(Along with Job, Union work, Activism, Radio Host, Parent, Shopping Etc, Posting crap on here,)nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 20 Sep 17 11.59pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
Read the first line of my reply,and where have I mentioned race...show me. Face it, you couldn't wait to bring up the subletters. Yes the issue of who is living where and who is renting from who is an issue that needs to be looked at and investigated, but on a more widespread scale. Not meaning you here before you develop angina Elgrande... I'm surprised I haven't heard the 'f***ing immigrants burning or asphyxiating to death in substandard British flats. Should've been people English people what perished ' line anywhere yet.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 21 Sep 17 12.01am |
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Originally posted by Jimenez
It's only *Bantz* off to bed you. I don't know how you manage to cram so much crap into 24 hours It's not Bantz. It's compulsion with you.
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| Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 21 Sep 17 12.02am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
It's not Bantz. It's compulsion with you.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Sep 17 10.18am |
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Wouldn't make a difference if they were squatting, subletting or owned the place. The way that building went up, and they way those people died is probably the greatest tragedy the UK has suffered in decades.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| Stirlingsays 22 Sep 17 10.44am |
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Housing in the UK is a disaster. This is the direct fault of politicians over decades. It's a reality that goes beyond left/right arguments. Elgrande makes a point about illegal practices whilst also agreeing with all of us on this tragedy. It's perfectly valid point. It's one point in about a million that speaks of the problems with housing. What we all saw happen to that tower block and hence to the people within it was unacceptable on so many levels. This was a complete failure of our systems. With aging realities we have too many people in the UK. High immigration worsens where we are, but also losing good people to emigration does as well. I'd like to think that the people at the helm were actually trying to improve the nation's future in a practical sense....but I know it's more about the five year cycle.
Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Sep 2017 10.48am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Sep 17 11.22am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Housing in the UK is a disaster. This is the direct fault of politicians over decades. It's a reality that goes beyond left/right arguments. Elgrande makes a point about illegal practices whilst also agreeing with all of us on this tragedy. It's perfectly valid point. It's one point in about a million that speaks of the problems with housing. What we all saw happen to that tower block and hence to the people within it was unacceptable on so many levels. This was a complete failure of our systems. With aging realities we have too many people in the UK. High immigration worsens where we are, but also losing good people to emigration does as well. I'd like to think that the people at the helm were actually trying to improve the nation's future in a practical sense....but I know it's more about the five year cycle.
Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Sep 2017 10.48am) Blah blah blah immigration blah blah blah.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Sep 17 11.25am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Housing in the UK is a disaster. This is the direct fault of politicians over decades. It's a reality that goes beyond left/right arguments. Elgrande makes a point about illegal practices whilst also agreeing with all of us on this tragedy. It's perfectly valid point. It's one point in about a million that speaks of the problems with housing. What we all saw happen to that tower block and hence to the people within it was unacceptable on so many levels. This was a complete failure of our systems. With aging realities we have too many people in the UK. High immigration worsens where we are, but also losing good people to emigration does as well. I'd like to think that the people at the helm were actually trying to improve the nation's future in a practical sense....but I know it's more about the five year cycle.
Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Sep 2017 10.48am) Problem is whoever resolves this is committing political suicide, because it will crash the housing market and wipe out a lot of peoples 'investment' and that will result in losing elections. I think its a hard decision, but the right one. The market has been out of control for decades. Failure to act, has just pushed the problem onto the next generation each time, compounding a problem to we get to the point that people are spending all their income on rent / mortgages which is causing all manner of different social problems.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Sep 17 11.29am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Housing in the UK is a disaster. This is the direct fault of politicians over decades. It's a reality that goes beyond left/right arguments. Elgrande makes a point about illegal practices whilst also agreeing with all of us on this tragedy. It's perfectly valid point. It's one point in about a million that speaks of the problems with housing. What we all saw happen to that tower block and hence to the people within it was unacceptable on so many levels. This was a complete failure of our systems. With aging realities we have too many people in the UK. High immigration worsens where we are, but also losing good people to emigration does as well. I'd like to think that the people at the helm were actually trying to improve the nation's future in a practical sense....but I know it's more about the five year cycle.
Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Sep 2017 10.48am) Yes, but its also important to remember that those illegal practices, aren't responsible for the disaster, they might contribute to the death toll (in the end) or to unidentified victims - but the reality of the fire is that they died because they were 'poor', the structure was not fit for purpse and lived in accommodation that had never been planned for in terms of an emergency (no capacity to rescue people above the 4th floor, only one route out of the building, no investment in something like a sprinkler and alarm system to buy them time to get out). These are experiences that only the working class and poor citizens are subject to.
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| Stirlingsays 22 Sep 17 12.35pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Yes, but its also important to remember that those illegal practices, aren't responsible for the disaster, they might contribute to the death toll (in the end) or to unidentified victims - but the reality of the fire is that they died because they were 'poor', the structure was not fit for purpse and lived in accommodation that had never been planned for in terms of an emergency (no capacity to rescue people above the 4th floor, only one route out of the building, no investment in something like a sprinkler and alarm system to buy them time to get out). These are experiences that only the working class and poor citizens are subject to. Sure, it's certainly true that the poor do less well in all areas compared to those who are not poor....that's kind of what being poor does. I wish for a fairer society that rewards meritocracy whilst protecting the vulnerable. We are far better than most countries around the world at this but that's still not an endorsement of where we are. However, I'm not sure that it is the job of the tax payers to resolve matters that relate to the fundamental nature of economies. Tax payers aren't protected enough as it is. What the tax payer should expect however is that buildings that it contributes towards heavily are not looking like chimneys once a fire starts. This kind of planning should really be a matter for the experts like the fire service.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Sep 17 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Sure, it's certainly true that the poor do less well in all areas compared to those who are not poor....that's kind of what being poor does. I wish for a fairer society that rewards meritocracy whilst protecting the vulnerable. We are far better than most countries around the world at this but that's still not an endorsement of where we are. However, I'm not sure that it is the job of the tax payers to resolve matters that relate to the fundamental nature of economies. Tax payers aren't protected enough as it is. What the tax payer should expect however is that buildings that it contributes towards heavily are not looking like chimneys once a fire starts. This kind of planning should really be a matter for the experts like the fire service.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Sep 17 12.58pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Sure, it's certainly true that the poor do less well in all areas compared to those who are not poor....that's kind of what being poor does. I wish for a fairer society that rewards meritocracy whilst protecting the vulnerable. We are far better than most countries around the world at this but that's still not an endorsement of where we are. However, I'm not sure that it is the job of the tax payers to resolve matters that relate to the fundamental nature of economies. Tax payers aren't protected enough as it is. What the tax payer should expect however is that buildings that it contributes towards heavily are not looking like chimneys once a fire starts. This kind of planning should really be a matter for the experts like the fire service. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Sep 2017 12.43pm) This is specifically my main issue, the block has been around for 50 years. Putting the fire safety of the cladding aside, its a total failure of responsibilities that despite having been in the area of for 50 years, there was no adequate strategy or solution for rescuing people from the building. And because they're poor ordinary every day people, that seems to have been alright for the Fire Service and Local Authorities.
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