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The White Horse 17 May 14 8.22pm
Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm Have I whinged about immigration? No, but I'd rather you did because then I wouldn't have to give tedious explanations about the workings of the European Parliament and Commission. "The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee
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The White Horse

17 May 14 8.22pm

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Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm

Have I whinged about immigration?

No, but I'd rather you did because then I wouldn't have to give tedious explanations about the workings of the European Parliament and Commission.

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

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kangel 17 May 14 8.24pm
Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.20pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.04pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 7.54pm I couldn't care less about how the EU appoints its apparatchiks and am happy with our own arrangements. I merely would like our own parliament to have control of our own country. My point is that the EU doesn't appoint their "apparatchiks", they elect them. Some of the democratic elections they have forced upon us are on Thursday, for example. As I said, maybe keep your objections to the EU to clichéd sentences like the above and whinges about immigration, rather than making forays into how democracy ought to operate. As I cannot vote directly for individuals of my choice, I consider the EU elections undemocratic. When you call the UN to let them know, don't forget to let them know about the tyranny of the London Assembly too. And about the thousands of elections that occur right across the world constantly where people vote for a party instead of an individual. Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).
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kangel

17 May 14 8.24pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.20pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.04pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 7.54pm

I couldn't care less about how the EU appoints its apparatchiks and am happy with our own arrangements. I merely would like our own parliament to have control of our own country.

My point is that the EU doesn't appoint their "apparatchiks", they elect them. Some of the democratic elections they have forced upon us are on Thursday, for example.

As I said, maybe keep your objections to the EU to clichéd sentences like the above and whinges about immigration, rather than making forays into how democracy ought to operate.

As I cannot vote directly for individuals of my choice, I consider the EU elections undemocratic.

When you call the UN to let them know, don't forget to let them know about the tyranny of the London Assembly too. And about the thousands of elections that occur right across the world constantly where people vote for a party instead of an individual.

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

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The White Horse 17 May 14 8.29pm
Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too). I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week. "The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee
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The White Horse

17 May 14 8.29pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week.

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

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kangel 17 May 14 8.40pm
Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too). I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week. What permanent members of the UN Security Council like China and Russia spring to the defence of democracies under threat!
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kangel

17 May 14 8.40pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

What permanent members of the UN Security Council like China and Russia spring to the defence of democracies under threat!

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kangel 17 May 14 9.08pm
Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.22pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm Have I whinged about immigration? No, but I'd rather you did because then I wouldn't have to give tedious explanations about the workings of the European Parliament and Commission. Perhaps I should start whinging then (will rack my brain for problems with immigration) then I too can hopefully avoid tedious explanations about the workings of the racket.
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kangel

17 May 14 9.08pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.22pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm

Have I whinged about immigration?

No, but I'd rather you did because then I wouldn't have to give tedious explanations about the workings of the European Parliament and Commission.

Perhaps I should start whinging then (will rack my brain for problems with immigration) then I too can hopefully avoid tedious explanations about the workings of the racket.

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 17 May 14 9.40pm
Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 9.08pm Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.22pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm Have I whinged about immigration? No, but I'd rather you did because then I wouldn't have to give tedious explanations about the workings of the European Parliament and Commission. Perhaps I should start whinging then (will rack my brain for problems with immigration) then I too can hopefully avoid tedious explanations about the workings of the racket. Kangel, you seem to be bursting with hatred of something you don't actually know anything about. Can I suggest you actually do a little bit of reading and learning about the things you are railing about, then come back with something a little more educated than ill-informed vitriol? Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 17 May 14 9.40pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 9.08pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.22pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.06pm

Have I whinged about immigration?

No, but I'd rather you did because then I wouldn't have to give tedious explanations about the workings of the European Parliament and Commission.

Perhaps I should start whinging then (will rack my brain for problems with immigration) then I too can hopefully avoid tedious explanations about the workings of the racket.

Kangel, you seem to be bursting with hatred of something you don't actually know anything about. Can I suggest you actually do a little bit of reading and learning about the things you are railing about, then come back with something a little more educated than ill-informed vitriol?

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 17 May 14 10.29pm
Gotta be suspicious of folks who sign up one day and then give it large on the messageboards five minutes later. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 17 May 14 10.29pm

Gotta be suspicious of folks who sign up one day and then give it large on the messageboards five minutes later.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Stirlingsays 17 May 14 11.50pm
Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too). I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week. Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke? Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few. Still, for many that are pro this EU they aren't that interested in democracy....Not democracy that goes against their vision anyway......They are happy to deny this country a vote on a EU that has been developed into a beast that looks little like the common market they were being sold. The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2014 11.51pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

17 May 14 11.50pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week.

Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke?

Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few.

Still, for many that are pro this EU they aren't that interested in democracy....Not democracy that goes against their vision anyway......They are happy to deny this country a vote on a EU that has been developed into a beast that looks little like the common market they were being sold.

The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2014 11.51pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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luckybuck 17 May 14 11.58pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 May 2014 11.50pm Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too). I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week. Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke? Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few. Still, for many that are pro this EU they aren't that interested in democracy....Not democracy that goes against their vision anyway......They are happy to deny this country a vote on a EU that has been developed into a beast that looks little like the common market they were being sold. The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2014 11.51pm) We can all say 'many on this side believe this' then create a convenient and basic caricature that re-enforces and fuels our own beliefs, but to what extent does it really pertain to reality on the ground? Probably about as much as the idea that the average UKIP voter is someone who feels uncomfortable foreign accents, around black people, around homosexuals and so on. Though who knows maybe there's an aspect of truth to your argument and to mine. All that we can be sure of is that with balance in mind, it's a both or neither situation, not demonising one side and painting the other as being as pure as driven snow. Edited by luckybuck (18 May 2014 12.06am)
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luckybuck

17 May 14 11.58pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 May 2014 11.50pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke?

Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few.

The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right.

Edited by Stirlingsays (17 May 2014 11.51pm)

We can all say 'many on this side believe this' then create a convenient and basic caricature that re-enforces and fuels our own beliefs, but to what extent does it really pertain to reality on the ground? Probably about as much as the idea that the average UKIP voter is someone who feels uncomfortable foreign accents, around black people, around homosexuals and so on. Though who knows maybe there's an aspect of truth to your argument and to mine. All that we can be sure of is that with balance in mind, it's a both or neither situation, not demonising one side and painting the other as being as pure as driven snow.

Edited by luckybuck (18 May 2014 12.06am)

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The White Horse 18 May 14 12.49am
Quote Stirlingsays at 17 May 2014 11.50pm Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too). I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week. Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke? Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few. Still, for many that are pro this EU they aren't that interested in democracy....Not democracy that goes against their vision anyway......They are happy to deny this country a vote on a EU that has been developed into a beast that looks little like the common market they were being sold. The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right. The country hasn't been "denied a vote" on the EU, its denied itself a vote by never electing a party that has promised a referendum on membership. It had plenty of chances in the 70s, 80s, 90s and this century; the democratic means have always been there (and might even be used in the coming years). Whether anyone was lied to or not, the anti EU crowd have never managed to get their act together until now. "The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee
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The White Horse

18 May 14 12.49am

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 May 2014 11.50pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke?

Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few.

The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right.

The country hasn't been "denied a vote" on the EU, its denied itself a vote by never electing a party that has promised a referendum on membership. It had plenty of chances in the 70s, 80s, 90s and this century; the democratic means have always been there (and might even be used in the coming years). Whether anyone was lied to or not, the anti EU crowd have never managed to get their act together until now.

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

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luckybuck 18 May 14 1.11am
Quote The White Horse at 18 May 2014 12.49am Quote Stirlingsays at 17 May 2014 11.50pm Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too). I believe they try to intervene when democracy is under threat. Obviously the best way to stop the tyranny of the EU is to ask them to help expose the façade of hundreds of millions people voting next week. Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke? Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few. Still, for many that are pro this EU they aren't that interested in democracy....Not democracy that goes against their vision anyway......They are happy to deny this country a vote on a EU that has been developed into a beast that looks little like the common market they were being sold. The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right. The country hasn't been "denied a vote" on the EU, its denied itself a vote by never electing a party that has promised a referendum on membership. It had plenty of chances in the 70s, 80s, 90s and this century; the democratic means have always been there (and might even be used in the coming years). Whether anyone was lied to or not, the anti EU crowd have never managed to get their act together until now. 100% correct. And time will tell if it's 'until now' or 'including now'. Edited by luckybuck (18 May 2014 1.14am)
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luckybuck

18 May 14 1.11am

Quote The White Horse at 18 May 2014 12.49am

Quote Stirlingsays at 17 May 2014 11.50pm

Quote The White Horse at 17 May 2014 8.29pm

Quote kangel at 17 May 2014 8.24pm

Thanks for the tip. But isn't the UN just another useless, money wasting, bureaucracy? (As of course the London Assembly is too).

Your first sentence is surely your attempt at a joke?

Your second sentence is actually a bit pointless. The popularity of the EU in Europe is dependent upon the country you are in.....It's not that popular in quite a few.

The no campaign back then did say that we were being lied to and that it would be a slippery slope and yup...They were right.

100% correct. And time will tell if it's 'until now' or 'including now'.

Edited by luckybuck (18 May 2014 1.14am)

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Stirlingsays 18 May 14 1.33am
Quote luckybuck at 17 May 2014 11.58pm We can all say 'many on this side believe this' then create a convenient and basic caricature that re-enforces and fuels our own beliefs, but to what extent does it really pertain to reality on the ground? Probably about as much as the idea that the average UKIP voter is someone who feels uncomfortable foreign accents, around black people, around homosexuals and so on. Though who knows maybe there's an aspect of truth to your argument and to mine. All that we can be sure of is that with balance in mind, it's a both or neither situation, not demonising one side and painting the other as being as pure as driven snow. Edited by luckybuck (18 May 2014 12.06am) I'm not sure what the point of that was in relation to what I posted. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

18 May 14 1.33am

Quote luckybuck at 17 May 2014 11.58pm

Edited by luckybuck (18 May 2014 12.06am)

I'm not sure what the point of that was in relation to what I posted.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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