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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 08 Mar 17 1.31pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It's a fair question. Just as it is fair to object to the EU claiming all the credit for "peace in our times" I think to dismiss it as having no contribution to the longest period of peace is also spurious. One tangible benefit was working with Ireland within the EU having shared interests and working together within the Union to achieve common aims contributed to the building of trust and much improved relationships and this contributed to the success of the peace process taking hold. Is it the only contributing factor? Of course not but it was a key part of that success.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 08 Mar 17 1.40pm | |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
Just as it is fair to object to the EU claiming all the credit for "peace in our times" I think to dismiss it as having no contribution to the longest period of peace is also spurious. One tangible benefit was working with Ireland within the EU having shared interests and working together within the Union to achieve common aims contributed to the building of trust and much improved relationships and this contributed to the success of the peace process taking hold. Is it the only contributing factor? Of course not but it was a key part of that success. The peace process in Northern Ireland has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. It is largely the result of the efforts of Blair.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Sedlescombe Sedlescombe 08 Mar 17 1.48pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
The peace process in Northern Ireland has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. It is largely the result of the efforts of Blair.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 08 Mar 17 2.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
Did the Irish government put pressure on the IRA? I don't know - would make a change from them turning a blind eye though. Even if they did, why is that necessarily because they were in the EU?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 17 2.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Sedlescombe
Just as it is fair to object to the EU claiming all the credit for "peace in our times" I think to dismiss it as having no contribution to the longest period of peace is also spurious. One tangible benefit was working with Ireland within the EU having shared interests and working together within the Union to achieve common aims contributed to the building of trust and much improved relationships and this contributed to the success of the peace process taking hold. Is it the only contributing factor? Of course not but it was a key part of that success.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Mar 17 3.00pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
The peace process in Northern Ireland has absolutely nothing to do with the EU. It is largely the result of the efforts of Blair. Mo Mowlem, Gerry Adams and David Trimble for me are probably three of the most significant figures. Blair as always claimed benefit for the work of others.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Mar 17 3.01pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Did the Irish government put pressure on the IRA? I don't know - would make a change from them turning a blind eye though. Even if they did, why is that necessarily because they were in the EU? The Catholic community referendum on the Good Friday Agreement, certainly did, given its believed over 90% of Catholics in Northern Ireland supported the agreement.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 08 Mar 17 3.07pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It's a fair question. None, post WWII almost all of their international power basis was gone, and the ensuing wars of national liberation largely ended any real likelihood of coming into conflict. The power in the world had shifted. The 'imperial' European powers were no longer the big players on the board. That was the Americans and Soviet Union. If anything, its arguable that a rise of a European Superstate would be more of a risk of conflict, as it would draw its interests inevitably against either the Chinese, Russia Federation and US (if it was to obtain its former power basis).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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steeleye20 Croydon 08 Mar 17 3.07pm | |
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The vote in Northern Ireland now split 50-50 between Unionist and Sinn Fein is bound to be a further weakening of the Union.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 08 Mar 17 3.13pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
None, post WWII almost all of their international power basis was gone, and the ensuing wars of national liberation largely ended any real likelihood of coming into conflict. The power in the world had shifted. The 'imperial' European powers were no longer the big players on the board. That was the Americans and Soviet Union. If anything, its arguable that a rise of a European Superstate would be more of a risk of conflict, as it would draw its interests inevitably against either the Chinese, Russia Federation and US (if it was to obtain its former power basis). Certainly agree with this.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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matt_himself Matataland 08 Mar 17 8.12pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Nato article 8: Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty. kind of says that no member of NATO shall attack another member. Furthermore, Article 5 is very clear on matters: Article 5 The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security . Is there something in the EU charter which overrides this, Michael? What a surprise. No response from the lefties. And I am the 'antagonistic' presence.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Hrolf The Ganger 08 Mar 17 8.24pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
None, post WWII almost all of their international power basis was gone, and the ensuing wars of national liberation largely ended any real likelihood of coming into conflict. The power in the world had shifted. The 'imperial' European powers were no longer the big players on the board. That was the Americans and Soviet Union. If anything, its arguable that a rise of a European Superstate would be more of a risk of conflict, as it would draw its interests inevitably against either the Chinese, Russia Federation and US (if it was to obtain its former power basis). Precisely.
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