Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.
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 Wisbech Eagle Online  Truro Cornwall 03 Nov 23 8.46am |
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The seemingly unequivocal and unquestioning support that Israel gets from the USA is showing some small, but potentially important, signs of changing:- Blinken has travelled to Israel again to try to find a way to moderate the impact on civilians and diminish the chance of escalation by meeting other leaders in the region. As the US is likely to be the only voice that can inject any degree of restraint into Netanyahu’s thinking both of these are important.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays Online 03 Nov 23 9.10am |
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Whether it's a Republican or Democrat administration in America matters little when it comes to Israel (donor class). However, being on the left the Biden administration find themselves in a bind. So true to form they issue largely meaningless words to to attempt to quell their own base....a good portion of which are not Israel's fans and 80 percent of whom want a ceasefire....All while providing Israel with all the financial and military support it needs.....Not calling for a ceasefire while it kills anything that moves around its troops....all in civilian areas of course. Israel is going to clear out Gaza and the US is going to talk cover while they do it. Calling for 'concrete steps' to protect civilians is a bit of a joke when it's your missiles that are ensuring the concrete steps land on top of them. Aside from the humanitarian angle (it's truly awful).....why should we care in the UK? Well, we don't want hundreds of thousands of refugees from Gaza coming to the UK......We know the usual suspects will be more than willing to push for that. This mess is between Israel/Palestine and the Americans. We shouldn't even have sent ships there.....We can't seem to stay out of anything. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2023 9.12am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays Online 03 Nov 23 9.19am |
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Hezbullah's top guy 'Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah' is giving a major speech this afternoon.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Attachment: | silvertop Portishead 03 Nov 23 10.37am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Indeed, they are in a difficult position as their population is obviously anti semitic but the leadership class there is reasonably pro western ....which for them isn't the same as pro Israeli. Well, maybe 'pro western' isn't quite right, pro staying in power and avoiding wars is probably a better way to put it. Similar situation for Egypt.....it's a significant problem for them both internally and externally. Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Nov 2023 5.45pm) Who would you rather be mates with. One of a number of lone street toughs, or the bloke who owns everything, puts food on your table and keeps your people safe? Staying chums with the West while not supporting Israel is sensible, pragmatic policy for Jordan, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Meanwhile, Iran serves as a very useful wedge to demonize as Shiite nutters thereby keeping the largely Sunni Islamic states on side. It's why the Gaza issue is so difficult for the diplomatic back channels. As another poster identified my error, Hamas are Sunni. Careful steps have to be taken.
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| silvertop Portishead 03 Nov 23 10.41am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Whether it's a Republican or Democrat administration in America matters little when it comes to Israel (donor class). However, being on the left the Biden administration find themselves in a bind. So true to form they issue largely meaningless words to to attempt to quell their own base....a good portion of which are not Israel's fans and 80 percent of whom want a ceasefire....All while providing Israel with all the financial and military support it needs.....Not calling for a ceasefire while it kills anything that moves around its troops....all in civilian areas of course. Israel is going to clear out Gaza and the US is going to talk cover while they do it. Calling for 'concrete steps' to protect civilians is a bit of a joke when it's your missiles that are ensuring the concrete steps land on top of them. Aside from the humanitarian angle (it's truly awful).....why should we care in the UK? Well, we don't want hundreds of thousands of refugees from Gaza coming to the UK......We know the usual suspects will be more than willing to push for that. This mess is between Israel/Palestine and the Americans. We shouldn't even have sent ships there.....We can't seem to stay out of anything. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2023 9.12am) No evidence of that, no historic precedent despite the decades of hostility, and little likelihood of it happening. More likely to go to North America or some new sh1t hole camp in the Sinai Desert which, with a favourable wind, may in time become an appalling shanty town with the full myriad of problems and a deeply resentful, radicalized population. And in terms of sending ships, this is more a message to the Americans. We are just another smaller nation knowing that good policy is staying close to those who run things. Edited by silvertop (03 Nov 2023 10.44am)
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| Stirlingsays Online 03 Nov 23 11.34am |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Who would you rather be mates with. One of a number of lone street toughs, or the bloke who owns everything, puts food on your table and keeps your people safe? Staying chums with the West while not supporting Israel is sensible, pragmatic policy for Jordan, Egypt, UAE, Saudi, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Meanwhile, Iran serves as a very useful wedge to demonize as Shiite nutters thereby keeping the largely Sunni Islamic states on side. It's why the Gaza issue is so difficult for the diplomatic back channels. As another poster identified my error, Hamas are Sunni. Careful steps have to be taken. I'd agree. The problem the US have is that they are correctly perceived as basically Israel's protector and hence can't act as an honest broker.....the Arabs know that Israel couldn't wipe out Gaza without America's 3.8 billion of arms to Israel every year. Whatever Israel does that upsets the Arabs the US now get the blame for as well. When Blinken got off the plane in Israel after the Hamas attacks and started talking about being a Jew and the Holocaust I thought, 'doesn't this clown know he's going to flying to Saudi and Egypt?' Honestly I have no idea how these people get into such powerful positions......When you look at the past to figures like Kissinger and disagree with stuff at least the man was smart.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays Online 03 Nov 23 11.40am |
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Originally posted by silvertop
No evidence of that, no historic precedent despite the decades of hostility, and little likelihood of it happening. More likely to go to North America or some new sh1t hole camp in the Sinai Desert which, with a favourable wind, may in time become an appalling shanty town with the full myriad of problems and a deeply resentful, radicalized population. And in terms of sending ships, this is more a message to the Americans. We are just another smaller nation knowing that good policy is staying close to those who run things. Edited by silvertop (03 Nov 2023 10.44am) Wilson said no to the US and kept us out of Vietnam. I think most of can agree that was a sensible decision. When your big brother seems incapable of de-escalating anything....personally I don't it's sensible to cheer it on and join in. I was a neo con....back during the Iraq war but I learnt from from that mistake. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2023 11.41am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| silvertop Portishead 03 Nov 23 1.04pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Wilson said no to the US and kept us out of Vietnam. I think most of can agree that was a sensible decision. When your big brother seems incapable of de-escalating anything....personally I don't it's sensible to cheer it on and join in. I was a neo con....back during the Iraq war but I learnt from from that mistake. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2023 11.41am) We can agree on that in hindsight. The Australians did not pursue that policy and I expect this is a decision that repeatedly comes back to haunt them. I have read nothing about what likely informed Wilson's decision but I expect it may have been motivated by economics and pay back for Eisenhower shafting us on Suez. That said, we have spent the following decades kowtowing to our big brother to get back into his good books. History will judge us on that.
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| dreamwaverider London 03 Nov 23 2.20pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Whether it's a Republican or Democrat administration in America matters little when it comes to Israel (donor class). However, being on the left the Biden administration find themselves in a bind. So true to form they issue largely meaningless words to to attempt to quell their own base....a good portion of which are not Israel's fans and 80 percent of whom want a ceasefire....All while providing Israel with all the financial and military support it needs.....Not calling for a ceasefire while it kills anything that moves around its troops....all in civilian areas of course. Israel is going to clear out Gaza and the US is going to talk cover while they do it. Calling for 'concrete steps' to protect civilians is a bit of a joke when it's your missiles that are ensuring the concrete steps land on top of them. Aside from the humanitarian angle (it's truly awful).....why should we care in the UK? Well, we don't want hundreds of thousands of refugees from Gaza coming to the UK......We know the usual suspects will be more than willing to push for that. This mess is between Israel/Palestine and the Americans. We shouldn't even have sent ships there.....We can't seem to stay out of anything. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Nov 2023 9.12am) Very good post. I mean who are we?
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eagleman13  On The Road To Hell & Alicante 03 Nov 23 2.45pm |
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There is a Pro-Palestine demo/march planned for Remembrance Sunday in central London. It won't end well & god help them if they disrupt or worse, desecrate any of the memorials. The Met haven't got enough people to police it or intervene & stop any potential disruption. Not just London either.
Joy And Pain is like Sunshine and Rain |
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| dreamwaverider London 03 Nov 23 2.56pm |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
There is a Pro-Palestine demo/march planned for Remembrance Sunday in central London. It won't end well & god help them if they disrupt or worse, desecrate any of the memorials. The Met haven't got enough people to police it or intervene & stop any potential disruption. Not just London either. Not the police they need to worry about if they start playing silly buggers. Can't believe they are allowing a Palestinian protest on the same day. Probably need to draft the army in. Edited by dreamwaverider (03 Nov 2023 3.01pm)
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| dreamwaverider London 03 Nov 23 2.58pm |
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All starting to sound a bit ugly from Lebanon. Hezbollah making threats.
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