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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.33am | |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
Did you belong to The Red Brigades? No. Never heard of them. I didn't belong to the Boys Brigade either. I was a scout though.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 11.36am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What riots? Do you mean the protests and attempts at statue removal? Just let the Police deal with them. That's their job. It isn't the job of self-appointed vigilante groups seeking confrontation and making things worse. How we as a nation respond to a re-evaluation of our past can be dealt with peacefully. From what I read the Millwall fans were pressured by the club not to repeat the booing. With so few inside and CCTV watching I suspect fear of bans played a big part. I agree though that the raised fists were a provocative and unwise statement. What riots? You really are something else. You’re like the Arsene Wenger of politics and societal studies. ‘’ I didn’t see it.’’ Well millions did and they didn’t like what happened or was allowed to happen, by the police, Cressida Dickhead and Sadiq Khant do anything apart from ruin London. The Millwall fans decided themselves on their football forum of what to do. I read it yesterday and Monday. They also had 700 guests on there all day. Probably many journalists etc. You’ve taken the MSM version. It did make me chuckle when I tuned in on sky sports just before the match to hear the 2 pundits describe the club’s statement as a ‘’cop out.’’ This will be the same media being a part of the problem in getting us to where we are. No doubt they will go 24/7 on the 4th official racist like they did with the 2 Bob east European country I can’t even remember giving Sterling vile abuse. We get non stop racist broadcasts as if we’re racist morons, which we aren’t. The fans on the Millwall forum agreed that they would ignore QPR players because if they didn’t they’d be hung for it as a club by football or the media. It had nothing to do with individual repercussions. They still disagree with it all. They said if their own players knelt they’d have to boo. They said they’ve made their point and people have sat up and taken notice, which they have, but at least 4 other teams did it and not much of a mention, but they did with Millwall because that story could be reported as racist more or at all considering the other clubs. So the fans got their players to not kneel and the fans themselves decided to bite their tongues on qpr players rather than your MSM version that they were pressured into it by the club and cctv. The QPR players tried to provoke them when they scored and I see you agree that the fist salute is provocative. What I did also read was some posting and agreeing to see it from Romeo’s point of view. They will view him as wrong, but they understand he might feel hurt by what’s happened, and he’s their captain and one of them as he was before all of this regardless of his race because race doesn’t come into being part of a football club, and that’s part of people’s annoyance at this.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.39am | |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
No, the fundamental argument here is not disrespect, it stems from whether the original gesture was acceptable to the people of this country. You say most say it is, I would say most say it is not, and not because they are racist but because they associate the symbol with the organisation that tore down statues, defaced the Cenotaph, rioted in the streets, campaigned for defunding the Police etc etc. The players utilising that symbol either didn’t realise or didn’t care that it symbolises far more than just the fight against racism and it is this that people are booing and not the players themselves. You have already laid out your argument about BLM and what it is, but on this point we fundamentally disagree as do the majority on here. Sports fans don’t want political gestures rammed down their throats every time they go to a sporting event but if you were speak to each individually they will be united that kicking out racism is a good thing. On that basis alone, removing the knee and replacing it with a football related theme, which they already had, kick it out or boot it out, is far more appropriate. As for booing, players are used to that if they play rubbish and I’ve never seen anyone be thrown out of a match for booing, it is the only tool the fans have for showing their displeasure at something and clearly, large numbers of the fans were not happy with what they were seeing. You can argue all you like that they are wrong and you are right but you are one person, they are many and they are just as entitled to an opinion as you. I have to say I didn’t like the alternative inequality banner, it didn’t look right with the in crossed out, however the sentiment of all the players together around a banner for a pre match photo certainly has my support and I’m pretty sure everyone else would be behind it. Football supporting anti-racism is great, but keep sport and politics separate. BS. The only issue is whether booing a sincere gesture was disrespectful. Whether you think that gesture wise, or whether you agree with the thinking behind it or not, are other matters. You don't boo people like that. You boo refs and opposition players. That's part of the fun. But not people who want to show they care. It destroys their connection to the fans.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 11.42am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You and those who take the same position lost this argument pages and pages ago. Dead horses have more chance of winning the Grand National than your argument winning. In truth it never even got to the starting gate. In a race between hobby horses, and there a few owned by people who populate these pages, this one would come last. It's a 3 legged donkey. So did you belong to the National Front? Your post is one of someone having lost the argument old boy. And this question is again offensive and probably breaking HOL site rules. I said several weeks ago I see ethnic minorities up here quite a bit more since Covid and it makes no difference to me because I treat everyone how I find them and treat them how they treat me in return. I question the behaviour of people, not their skin colour. And you’re acting pretty deplorably. Pretty sure your accusation is breaking site rules.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.48am | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
What riots? You really are something else. You’re like the Arsene Wenger of politics and societal studies. ‘’ I didn’t see it.’’ Well millions did and they didn’t like what happened or was allowed to happen, by the police, Cressida Dickhead and Sadiq Khant do anything apart from ruin London. The Millwall fans decided themselves on their football forum of what to do. I read it yesterday and Monday. They also had 700 guests on there all day. Probably many journalists etc. You’ve taken the MSM version. It did make me chuckle when I tuned in on sky sports just before the match to hear the 2 pundits describe the club’s statement as a ‘’cop out.’’ This will be the same media being a part of the problem in getting us to where we are. No doubt they will go 24/7 on the 4th official racist like they did with the 2 Bob east European country I can’t even remember giving Sterling vile abuse. We get non stop racist broadcasts as if we’re racist morons, which we aren’t. The fans on the Millwall forum agreed that they would ignore QPR players because if they didn’t they’d be hung for it as a club by football or the media. It had nothing to do with individual repercussions. They still disagree with it all. They said if their own players knelt they’d have to boo. They said they’ve made their point and people have sat up and taken notice, which they have, but at least 4 other teams did it and not much of a mention, but they did with Millwall because that story could be reported as racist more or at all considering the other clubs. So the fans got their players to not kneel and the fans themselves decided to bite their tongues on qpr players rather than your MSM version that they were pressured into it by the club and cctv. The QPR players tried to provoke them when they scored and I see you agree that the fist salute is provocative. What I did also read was some posting and agreeing to see it from Romeo’s point of view. They will view him as wrong, but they understand he might feel hurt by what’s happened, and he’s their captain and one of them as he was before all of this regardless of his race because race doesn’t come into being part of a football club, and that’s part of people’s annoyance at this. So you approve of vigilantes deciding they know better how to handle crowds during a pandemic than our Police do you? Why am I not surprised. Nothing at all that you say even begins to address the real point. You seem to want to justify despicable behaviour because of some rather warped political beliefs. It doesn't wash. Showing disrespect to people making their own sincere statements is unacceptable. Making excuses to justify that disrespect is also unacceptable.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.51am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are over intellectualising. A Black power salute is inflammatory and unnecessary. I defend the right of people to express themselves but any action leads to reaction. I certainly don't think that football authorities should allow these kinds of political demonstrations. It is the proverbial slippery slope. Please don't tell me this is non political. I agree the salute was unwise. The gestures are political only in the sense they are supporting change. They are not directly associated with any political party or movement.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 11.52am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The reason I ask is that someone, on another forum I use, posted a leaflet from the National Front published in the 1970s. It read "STOP IMMIGRATION, REJECT the Common Market, RESTORE capital punishment, MAKE Britain great again, SCRAP overseas aid, REBUILD our armed forces. The NF was widely regarded as pseudo-fascist back then but how much of this wish list is now on the agenda of people like you? How far to the right has the right side of Britsh politics now drifted? Which of those policies do you NOT agree with? I do not reject the common market, but that’s not the EU, is it? Restore capital punishment? You’ll find some ethnic minorities want that or practice it. It’s not as simple as people think and after the debate I’d probably not want it. Stop immigration? No, have a say on it and coherent policies while not ignoring a generation of people in your own country. In other countries that would sound quite normal, but not to you probably. NF and the BNP were about hostility and driving minorities out of Britain. I remember Nick Griffin being given his right to free speech on QT and making a right cvnt of himself and that was that. The reason why Nigel Farage doesn’t make a cvnt of himself is because there’s legitimate, legal, coherent and sensible policies that incidentally people of all colours have voted for. You may want to call that ‘drawing up the drawbridge’ with regards to immigration but that is their right to take that view and vote on controlling immigration. The reason we have to have Nigel Farage is because people like you and your politics try to drown out any dissenting voices. You then get a 52% vote you don’t like and come on here to learn why and get period pains when people will never see your point of view from your comfortable life in tossing Truro. Edited by Rudi Hedman (09 Dec 2020 12.09pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Your post is one of someone having lost the argument old boy. And this question is again offensive and probably breaking HOL site rules. I said several weeks ago I see ethnic minorities up here quite a bit more since Covid and it makes no difference to me because I treat everyone how I find them and treat them how they treat me in return. I question the behaviour of people, not their skin colour. And you’re acting pretty deplorably. Pretty sure your accusation is breaking site rules. Your argument was lost before it was raised because it addresses the wrong question. My own question was a simple one. You can choose not to answer. Your silence may be regarded by some as an admission. I cannot control that.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 11.58am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
BS. The only issue is whether booing a sincere gesture was disrespectful. Whether you think that gesture wise, or whether you agree with the thinking behind it or not, are other matters. You don't boo people like that. You boo refs and opposition players. That's part of the fun. But not people who want to show they care. It destroys their connection to the fans. You’re now agreeing that the fist salute is provocative and unnecessary. And you’re moving away from the whole knee thing being necessary or right to do and instead just focusing on the booing. So instead of discussing what is necessary you’re focusing on a disapproval to it. All this confirms is your usual stance that everyone has to shut up and accept your personal choice of direction. It’s all too familiar with you.
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 12.07pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
So you approve of vigilantes deciding they know better how to handle crowds during a pandemic than our Police do you? Why am I not surprised. Nothing at all that you say even begins to address the real point. You seem to want to justify despicable behaviour because of some rather warped political beliefs. It doesn't wash. Showing disrespect to people making their own sincere statements is unacceptable. Making excuses to justify that disrespect is also unacceptable. What? What has a pandemic got to do with it? During the BLM riots the police let them do what they wanted, (as Eaglecoops eloquently explained about the disrespect etc, only for you to say ‘’BS. It’s about the booing.’’) Oh I see. During the lockdown protests they couldn’t wait to arrest anyone, especially if they were old, female or on their own. At BLM, do as you like, at lockdown protests you get arrested for being in London. Incredible. Nothing to do with warped political beliefs. You’re just losing ground here and clinging onto the booing. Eaglecoops explained the booing is all that’s left to object to the gesture and not the players, but yet again you don’t have the decency to answer and just say ‘’BS, it’s the booing.’’ People like you don’t want to hear objections, or what you call dissent, and when you do you lose it and won’t accept it again. Very predictable. Edited by Rudi Hedman (09 Dec 2020 12.14pm)
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Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 12.12pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Your argument was lost before it was raised because it addresses the wrong question. My own question was a simple one. You can choose not to answer. Your silence may be regarded by some as an admission. I cannot control that. The real issue is the act or the means, not the cause and your attempt at booing being the issue and claiming the rest is BS just shows you’re in a bit of a hole. It’s the classic attempt to divert attention away from the real issue. Eaglecoops answered it. You ignored it and called it BS. Again, he said it’s because that’s all there is left to show disapproval to the gesture. I’ve said this before myself. You’ve clearly ignored it over the last few days as expected because we all know nobody is allowed to have any objections to you. At least you acknowledge the power fist is unnecessary and PROVOCATIVE I suppose. Edited by Rudi Hedman (09 Dec 2020 12.21pm)
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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 09 Dec 20 12.36pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Your argument was lost before it was raised because it addresses the wrong question. My own question was a simple one. You can choose not to answer. Your silence may be regarded by some as an admission. I cannot control that.
Whichever thread you appear on it always ends the same way, I find myself posting on here less and less now as this constant crap is so boring. The irony is no one actually wins these arguments and no ones mind is ever changed anyway. It normally just strengthens their existing beliefs. It’s all futile, all this arguing is futile. This is meant to be a football site. Go and enjoy yourself man.
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