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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Feb 17 12.28pm
Originally posted by nickgusset From Michael Rosen. Very salient points imo. Well, well, well if ever you wanted an example of what we Marxists call the gap between 'ideology' and 'conditions', this is it! For years, those in power have let it be known that there is something undesirable about immigration. In short, they say that immigrants are a problem - even 'the' problem. If you (the people) are in any way worse off (mentally, emotionally, materially) the fault is immigrants. That's been the story and the press have loved it. We've even had the repeated bogus business of interviewers rushing off and talking solely and obsessively to 'people on the ground' (nearly always old and white) and letting them 'voice their concerns' - ones that the media and government have stirred up over and over and over again even to point of objecting that immigrants speak their own language (what a crime!), practise their own religions (crime again!) and do the lowest paid jobs with the worst conditions whilst simultaneously sponging off 'our' benefits system. All this has been 'ideology' ie a consistent set of untruths, half-truths and a deliberate attempt not to present the whole picture of how immigration supports the kind of economy that the UK has. Meanwhile, there are the 'material' conditions. That's to say, the organisation and cycle of work, production, distribution, and the making of profits. Quite clearly, immigration has been essential for this in a variety of ways. So there is a gap between what government and press have been saying and what has actually been happening. That's why Cameron talking about 'bringing down the numbers' was always hooey. He would have been told over and over again by employers' organisations (natural supporters of the Tories) that their businesses were only sustainable on the basis that young workers were coming in able and willing to do those jobs. So now having 'won' the ideological battle: hooray we can 'control our borders' (euphemism for 'keep foreigners out') they're losing the material one ie businesses are short of labour. This is an extraordinary moment. We'll have to see how serious it is, but a Tory government is going to find it extremely difficult to turn round to an electorate primed up to think that 'bringing down immigration' (or even telling immigrants to 'go home') was and is a 'solution' for something (it isn't), whilst at the same time maintaining the same levels of immigration. I glazed over when I got to "we Marxists". Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 13 Feb 17 12.28pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

From Michael Rosen. Very salient points imo.
Well, well, well if ever you wanted an example of what we Marxists call the gap between 'ideology' and 'conditions', this is it! For years, those in power have let it be known that there is something undesirable about immigration. In short, they say that immigrants are a problem - even 'the' problem. If you (the people) are in any way worse off (mentally, emotionally, materially) the fault is immigrants. That's been the story and the press have loved it. We've even had the repeated bogus business of interviewers rushing off and talking solely and obsessively to 'people on the ground' (nearly always old and white) and letting them 'voice their concerns' - ones that the media and government have stirred up over and over and over again even to point of objecting that immigrants speak their own language (what a crime!), practise their own religions (crime again!) and do the lowest paid jobs with the worst conditions whilst simultaneously sponging off 'our' benefits system. All this has been 'ideology' ie a consistent set of untruths, half-truths and a deliberate attempt not to present the whole picture of how immigration supports the kind of economy that the UK has.

Meanwhile, there are the 'material' conditions. That's to say, the organisation and cycle of work, production, distribution, and the making of profits. Quite clearly, immigration has been essential for this in a variety of ways. So there is a gap between what government and press have been saying and what has actually been happening. That's why Cameron talking about 'bringing down the numbers' was always hooey. He would have been told over and over again by employers' organisations (natural supporters of the Tories) that their businesses were only sustainable on the basis that young workers were coming in able and willing to do those jobs.

So now having 'won' the ideological battle: hooray we can 'control our borders' (euphemism for 'keep foreigners out') they're losing the material one ie businesses are short of labour.

This is an extraordinary moment. We'll have to see how serious it is, but a Tory government is going to find it extremely difficult to turn round to an electorate primed up to think that 'bringing down immigration' (or even telling immigrants to 'go home') was and is a 'solution' for something (it isn't), whilst at the same time maintaining the same levels of immigration.

I glazed over when I got to "we Marxists".

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Feb 17 12.53pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt I glazed over when I got to "we Marxists". Shame. Still the I didn't read it argument lives on. [Link]
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 13 Feb 17 12.53pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

I glazed over when I got to "we Marxists".

Shame. Still the I didn't read it argument lives on.
[Link]

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 13 Feb 17 12.55pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Shame. Still the I didn't read it argument lives on. [Link] Bloggers are benders. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 13 Feb 17 12.55pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Shame. Still the I didn't read it argument lives on.
[Link]

Bloggers are benders.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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steeleye20 Croydon 13 Feb 17 1.16pm
Everyone suffers from confirmation bias to a certain extent. It is always easier to spot errors in statements we find disagreeable than it is to find errors in statements we like. I get confirmation bias must have done it myself often cherry-picking (like us and the EU?) the bits I like to agree with. I can see that I could be more objective and I will start by stating that virtue signalling is a load of cobblers.
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steeleye20

Croydon 13 Feb 17 1.16pm

Everyone suffers from confirmation bias to a certain extent. It is always easier to spot errors in statements we find disagreeable than it is to find errors in statements we like.

I get confirmation bias must have done it myself often cherry-picking (like us and the EU?) the bits I like to agree with.

I can see that I could be more objective and I will start by stating that virtue signalling is a load of cobblers.

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Feb 17 1.33pm
Originally posted by nickgusset From Michael Rosen. Very salient points imo. Well, well, well if ever you wanted an example of what we Marxists call the gap between 'ideology' and 'conditions', this is it! For years, those in power have let it be known that there is something undesirable about immigration. In short, they say that immigrants are a problem - even 'the' problem. If you (the people) are in any way worse off (mentally, emotionally, materially) the fault is immigrants. That's been the story and the press have loved it. We've even had the repeated bogus business of interviewers rushing off and talking solely and obsessively to 'people on the ground' (nearly always old and white) and letting them 'voice their concerns' - ones that the media and government have stirred up over and over and over again even to point of objecting that immigrants speak their own language (what a crime!), practise their own religions (crime again!) and do the lowest paid jobs with the worst conditions whilst simultaneously sponging off 'our' benefits system. All this has been 'ideology' ie a consistent set of untruths, half-truths and a deliberate attempt not to present the whole picture of how immigration supports the kind of economy that the UK has. Meanwhile, there are the 'material' conditions. That's to say, the organisation and cycle of work, production, distribution, and the making of profits. Quite clearly, immigration has been essential for this in a variety of ways. So there is a gap between what government and press have been saying and what has actually been happening. That's why Cameron talking about 'bringing down the numbers' was always hooey. He would have been told over and over again by employers' organisations (natural supporters of the Tories) that their businesses were only sustainable on the basis that young workers were coming in able and willing to do those jobs. So now having 'won' the ideological battle: hooray we can 'control our borders' (euphemism for 'keep foreigners out') they're losing the material one ie businesses are short of labour. This is an extraordinary moment. We'll have to see how serious it is, but a Tory government is going to find it extremely difficult to turn round to an electorate primed up to think that 'bringing down immigration' (or even telling immigrants to 'go home') was and is a 'solution' for something (it isn't), whilst at the same time maintaining the same levels of immigration. Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it. We hear lots of migrants and sons of migrants telling us how great immigration is. Fancy that. They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Feb 17 1.33pm

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Originally posted by nickgusset

Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it.
We hear lots of migrants and sons of migrants telling us how great immigration is. Fancy that.

They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 4.23pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it. We hear lots of migrants and sons of migrants telling us how great immigration is. Fancy that. They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment. Immigrants aren't really the problem though are they, immigration control and its exploitation to maximise profit, are the problem. I don't think the UK can cope without immigration, what it doesn't need is the idea of immigration being utilised to purely fulfil a corporate agenda. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Feb 17 4.23pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment.

Immigrants aren't really the problem though are they, immigration control and its exploitation to maximise profit, are the problem. I don't think the UK can cope without immigration, what it doesn't need is the idea of immigration being utilised to purely fulfil a corporate agenda.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 4.24pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Michael Rosen is Jewish and has a bee in his bonnet about anti immigration advocacy. Hardly a surprise is it. We hear lots of migrants and sons of migrants telling us how great immigration is. Fancy that. They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment. He's still got some valid points in there though, which aren't dismissed on the basis of him being Jewish, or a migrant (or son of a migrant). "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Feb 17 4.24pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

They will all be whining just the same when none of their kids can afford a house or get medical treatment.

He's still got some valid points in there though, which aren't dismissed on the basis of him being Jewish, or a migrant (or son of a migrant).

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Part Time James 13 Feb 17 4.26pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Bloggers are benders. There is a certain audience that enjoys a blog: The ct that wrote it. And that's not personal or specific to anyone here. Blogs are massively over indulgent and I'm yet to read one without shouting "ct" before the end.
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Part Time James

13 Feb 17 4.26pm

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Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Bloggers are benders.

There is a certain audience that enjoys a blog:

The c**t that wrote it.

And that's not personal or specific to anyone here. Blogs are massively over indulgent and I'm yet to read one without shouting "c**t" before the end.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 13 Feb 17 4.49pm
Originally posted by Part Time James There is a certain audience that enjoys a blog: The ct that wrote it. And that's not personal or specific to anyone here. Blogs are massively over indulgent and I'm yet to read one without shouting "ct" before the end. Whilst there are, and have been, some excellent blogs, in my experience, most of them are only enjoyed by the writer, other bloggers and very lazy journalists. Its a bit like being a 'youtube' personality (One down from being recognised for your work in p***.. In fact, I'd argue that the difference between being a blogger and a writer, is someone pays you for the quality of what you produce at a financial risk, rather than the money you generate through adverts (typically spawned by other mindless narcissists who read what you wrote on the basis that you'll read their equally unimpressive self indulgent nonsense). Bloggers, are an internet creation, culled from those who lack the imagination to write crossover fan fiction. In fact its the non-fiction equivalent of slash-fiction. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 13 Feb 17 4.49pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

There is a certain audience that enjoys a blog:

The c**t that wrote it.

And that's not personal or specific to anyone here. Blogs are massively over indulgent and I'm yet to read one without shouting "c**t" before the end.

Whilst there are, and have been, some excellent blogs, in my experience, most of them are only enjoyed by the writer, other bloggers and very lazy journalists. Its a bit like being a 'youtube' personality (One down from being recognised for your work in p***..

In fact, I'd argue that the difference between being a blogger and a writer, is someone pays you for the quality of what you produce at a financial risk, rather than the money you generate through adverts (typically spawned by other mindless narcissists who read what you wrote on the basis that you'll read their equally unimpressive self indulgent nonsense).

Bloggers, are an internet creation, culled from those who lack the imagination to write crossover fan fiction. In fact its the non-fiction equivalent of slash-fiction.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Part Time James 13 Feb 17 4.57pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Whilst there are, and have been, some excellent blogs, in my experience, most of them are only enjoyed by the writer, other bloggers and very lazy journalists. Its a bit like being a 'youtube' personality (One down from being recognised for your work in p***.. In fact, I'd argue that the difference between being a blogger and a writer, is someone pays you for the quality of what you produce at a financial risk, rather than the money you generate through adverts (typically spawned by other mindless narcissists who read what you wrote on the basis that you'll read their equally unimpressive self indulgent nonsense). Bloggers, are an internet creation, culled from those who lack the imagination to write crossover fan fiction. In fact its the non-fiction equivalent of slash-fiction. We have several senior people in the company I work for that send out "blogs" now. They always start off with such terrific insights along the lines of "Well it's been a mixed weekend for me as my 9 year old Jocasta has just learnt to use the toilet but my husband came back from a grouse hunting party empty handed so we had to purchase a goose from Waitrose for dinner". I was briefly interested in one once when the senior person in question started with "It was a joyful weekend in our household as our favourite football team, Crystal Palace, finally got a win under their belt..." (yeah, it was a while ago). But then she started talking corporate nonsense and I 'filed' the email.
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Part Time James

13 Feb 17 4.57pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Bloggers, are an internet creation, culled from those who lack the imagination to write crossover fan fiction. In fact its the non-fiction equivalent of slash-fiction.

We have several senior people in the company I work for that send out "blogs" now. They always start off with such terrific insights along the lines of "Well it's been a mixed weekend for me as my 9 year old Jocasta has just learnt to use the toilet but my husband came back from a grouse hunting party empty handed so we had to purchase a goose from Waitrose for dinner".

I was briefly interested in one once when the senior person in question started with "It was a joyful weekend in our household as our favourite football team, Crystal Palace, finally got a win under their belt..." (yeah, it was a while ago). But then she started talking corporate nonsense and I 'filed' the email.

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Part Time James 13 Feb 17 5.00pm
Blogs remind me of a Simpsons episode where every character had their own little newsletter that they distributed to each other. I am infinitely less interesting in other people's opinions and updates than I am in my own and I suspect most people are the same if they were honest.
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Part Time James

13 Feb 17 5.00pm

Blogs remind me of a Simpsons episode where every character had their own little newsletter that they distributed to each other.

I am infinitely less interesting in other people's opinions and updates than I am in my own and I suspect most people are the same if they were honest.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 13 Feb 17 5.03pm
Originally posted by Part Time James We have several senior people in the company I work for that send out "blogs" now. They always start off with such terrific insights along the lines of "Well it's been a mixed weekend for me as my 9 year old Jocasta has just learnt to use the toilet but my husband came back from a grouse hunting party empty handed so we had to purchase a goose from Waitrose for dinner". I was briefly interested in one once when the senior person in question started with "It was a joyful weekend in our household as our favourite football team, Crystal Palace, finally got a win under their belt..." (yeah, it was a while ago). But then she started talking corporate nonsense and I 'filed' the email. Who is it - Jo Brand or Susanna Reid? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 13 Feb 17 5.03pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

Who is it - Jo Brand or Susanna Reid?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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