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Teddy Eagle 01 Dec 21 12.37pm | |
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But you still dismiss many sources regardless of whether the facts are / were correct because you consider them unreliable or biased.
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Stirlingsays 01 Dec 21 12.41pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
"Influencewatch's" statements are NOT factual statements. They are spun claims. Without having checked every one, I will assume, for the sake of argument, that the people and the amounts are right. What I don't is their political associations, or their motivations. Successful business people, who love their country and are so concerned about its direction and division, support all kinds of causes. That this includes a reputable fact checking site ought to be no surprise. Nor does it make them "lefties". "Politifact", in stark contrast to "Influencewatch", go out of their way to stress their non-political, independent, objective approach to their work. They receive administration support from a political organisation, but at arms length. They accept donations, but without restrictions as "Influencewatch" do, or in return for any favours. That they don't appear to receive too much money from "conservatives" tells me two things. Firstly, that the kind of successful businesspeople who are interested in promoting the truth tend not to be the type who would support today's "conservatives", and secondly that "conservatives" themselves are more interested in attacking those who check facts, than supporting them. The very fact that Biden's team had to explain that he had frequently called Trump xenophobic, and that he had done so again during the time that travel bans were introduced, did not mean the jibe sprung from the travel bans, only goes to demonstrate how Trump, and his own team, operate. It was intended to sow hatred in the minds of people who dislike Biden, and are prepared to believe lies, just because it confirms their bias. It isn't factual. That's what "Politifact", with carefully worded reasoning, have demonstrated. That some want it to be just a matter of opinion is all part of the Trump style. Promote misinformation and describe it as "alternative facts". Get your supporters to believe your lies are the truth. Describe the truth as "fake news". Never apologise. Accuse your critics of your own sins. It's all part of the same campaign, which people like "Influencewatch" are part of, and "Politifact" try to expose. Not because they themselves are political. Because their role is to separate fact from fiction. Successfully.
You provide no evidence and just waffle away. Nevertheless, those interested can check the links and come to their own conclusions as to where the more likely truth sits. For my part I consider you hopelessly partisan to the point of zealotry....and that zeal is amusing considering your apparent hatred and desire to wipe out religion....an extremist and very minority position.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Dec 21 5.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But you still dismiss many sources regardless of whether the facts are / were correct because you consider them unreliable or biased. Dismiss? No. Distrust? Yes. Facts are facts. Spin is spin, and often when I distrust something it's because of the way some facts are woven with assertion to present an incorrect picture.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Dec 21 6.22pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You provide no evidence and just waffle away. Nevertheless, those interested can check the links and come to their own conclusions as to where the more likely truth sits. For my part I consider you hopelessly partisan to the point of zealotry....and that zeal is amusing considering your apparent hatred and desire to wipe out religion....an extremist and very minority position. No need for any more evidence from me. It's all there, in the analysis presented by Politifact, and their mission statement. The evidence for Influencewatch comes from your own admissions, the claims made on their website and the statements of theirs you quoted, which make unsubstantiated, and unprovable claims. Indeed, check the links. The truth is there, in plain sight. That you then demonstrate an inability to recognise the difference between a fact and an assertion, by suggesting I "hate and want to wipe out religion", only goes to demonstrate the fundamental weakness of your attitude. I don't hate religion at all. I don't share anyone's belief, but I respect their right to hold it. What I hate is religion being used as a justification to use violence against others, or to isolate or marginalise others. Nor do I want to "wipe it out". That's just ridiculous. All I am proposing is that religion's presence on the public square, and in our schools, be curtailed, and that proselytisation be banned. Religious congregations would still be free to meet and worship together. They would be welcomed, and indeed encouraged, to participate in community efforts to help those in need. Showing people their worth is by far the best way to promote themselves. In view of the harm being done in today's world by religious fanatics, which is a frequent topic in these pages, that you so quickly dismiss something that could make a positive contribution to improving things, is somewhat surprising.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Stirlingsays 01 Dec 21 7.17pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No need for any more evidence from me. It's all there, in the analysis presented by Politifact, and their mission statement. The evidence for Influencewatch comes from your own admissions, the claims made on their website and the statements of theirs you quoted, which make unsubstantiated, and unprovable claims. Indeed, check the links. The truth is there, in plain sight. That you then demonstrate an inability to recognise the difference between a fact and an assertion, by suggesting I "hate and want to wipe out religion", only goes to demonstrate the fundamental weakness of your attitude. I don't hate religion at all. I don't share anyone's belief, but I respect their right to hold it. What I hate is religion being used as a justification to use violence against others, or to isolate or marginalise others. Nor do I want to "wipe it out". That's just ridiculous. All I am proposing is that religion's presence on the public square, and in our schools, be curtailed, and that proselytisation be banned. Religious congregations would still be free to meet and worship together. They would be welcomed, and indeed encouraged, to participate in community efforts to help those in need. Showing people their worth is by far the best way to promote themselves. In view of the harm being done in today's world by religious fanatics, which is a frequent topic in these pages, that you so quickly dismiss something that could make a positive contribution to improving things, is somewhat surprising.
Extremism. 'All I'm saying', what an absurd way to preface such a massive authoritarianism. With all the other stuff, I'm satisfied that people now have the opposite evidence against the claims your ideological bedfellows make and so can make their own minds up as to where the truth lies on these matters.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 Dec 21 8.30pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Extremism. 'All I'm saying', what an absurd way to preface such a massive authoritarianism. With all the other stuff, I'm satisfied that people now have the opposite evidence against the claims your ideological bedfellows make and so can make their own minds up as to where the truth lies on these matters.
Extremism is "the holding of extreme political or religious views; fanaticism". As we need new thinking to solve these problems, a bit of firm authority might not be such a bad thing. I, too, am quite happy for people to review the facts and make up their own minds. Which I trust will be done on the basis of what is actually true, and not what is asserted to be true.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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HKOwen Hong Kong 01 Dec 21 11.58pm | |
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When conceited septuagenarians opine, best to ignore
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 21 7.52am | |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
When conceited septuagenarians opine, best to ignore I'm saving that rocker for the day when I feel as old as I really am.
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georgenorman 02 Dec 21 8.22am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It may be fairly described as positive, even revolutionary and certainly new and creative, but it's not extremism. Extremism is "the holding of extreme political or religious views; fanaticism". As we need new thinking to solve these problems, a bit of firm authority might not be such a bad thing. I, too, am quite happy for people to review the facts and make up their own minds. Which I trust will be done on the basis of what is actually true, and not what is asserted to be true.
“Now, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, Sir!” [Dickens, 'Hard Times']
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Teddy Eagle 02 Dec 21 8.41am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I'm saving that rocker for the day when I feel as old as I really am. Then what was he going to do with him?
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 21 11.01am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Then what was he going to do with him? Join him on the "Stairway to Heaven"?
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Teddy Eagle 02 Dec 21 11.13am | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Join him on the "Stairway to Heaven"? Provided the Mods don’t object.
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