Rafiq

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Rafiq

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Spiderman Horsham 22 Nov 21 10.14am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing. Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller. Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee. Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change. I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message. This fine upstanding Muslim who, allegedly, offered a 17 year old female an alcoholic drink. If proven, this does make him a hypocrite, bearing in mind his testimony about being made to drink alcohol. Of course not proven yet but if so will you agree it is hypocritical of him?
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Spiderman

Horsham 22 Nov 21 10.14am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing.

Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller.

Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee.

Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change.

I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message.

This fine upstanding Muslim who, allegedly, offered a 17 year old female an alcoholic drink. If proven, this does make him a hypocrite, bearing in mind his testimony about being made to drink alcohol. Of course not proven yet but if so will you agree it is hypocritical of him?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 10.52am
Originally posted by Badger11 If you publicly criticise the character of other public figures it is only right and proper that your behaviour is also examined. This happens all the time in courts and the media. I am not so sure if he has criticised their character! He was much more critical of the culture in which the behaviour was regarded as normal, and acknowledged that they are personally good people. As he included himself in the criticism, there is really no need for anyone else to do it. What this is doing is distracting from the main issue, which is, no doubt, why it is done. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 10.52am

Originally posted by Badger11

If you publicly criticise the character of other public figures it is only right and proper that your behaviour is also examined. This happens all the time in courts and the media.

I am not so sure if he has criticised their character! He was much more critical of the culture in which the behaviour was regarded as normal, and acknowledged that they are personally good people. As he included himself in the criticism, there is really no need for anyone else to do it.

What this is doing is distracting from the main issue, which is, no doubt, why it is done.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 10.55am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman He knew why he didn’t make claims about himself. Change of a culture in work or sport are fair enough if there’s a culture of bullying or using race in unacceptable ways, or perhaps any if some don’t understand the differences or pick up on what’s innocent and use it for their hatred or ignorance way. But if this guy has serious question marks over his character and attitude towards others and certain groups then this should be remembered and in no way should he start receiving any compensation etc. That is an entirely separate issue, and ought not be allowed to obscure the really important one. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 10.55am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

He knew why he didn’t make claims about himself. Change of a culture in work or sport are fair enough if there’s a culture of bullying or using race in unacceptable ways, or perhaps any if some don’t understand the differences or pick up on what’s innocent and use it for their hatred or ignorance way. But if this guy has serious question marks over his character and attitude towards others and certain groups then this should be remembered and in no way should he start receiving any compensation etc.

That is an entirely separate issue, and ought not be allowed to obscure the really important one.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Helmet46 Croydon 22 Nov 21 10.59am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not so sure if he has criticised their character! He was much more critical of the culture in which the behaviour was regarded as normal, and acknowledged that they are personally good people. As he included himself in the criticism, there is really no need for anyone else to do it. What this is doing is distracting from the main issue, which is, no doubt, why it is done. So are you saying that we ignore what he’s done as it’s clearly a distraction?
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Helmet46

Croydon 22 Nov 21 10.59am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

What this is doing is distracting from the main issue, which is, no doubt, why it is done.

So are you saying that we ignore what he’s done as it’s clearly a distraction?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.09am
Originally posted by Eaglecoops Credibility is everything and Rafiq no longer has any. Putting him up as poster boy for racial awareness is akin to putting Harold Shipman up as a shining example of NHS doctors. Irrelevant. What matters is if the issues he has highlighted get addressed. If any additional issues because of his own behaviour get addressed, then so much the better. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.09am

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

Credibility is everything and Rafiq no longer has any. Putting him up as poster boy for racial awareness is akin to putting Harold Shipman up as a shining example of NHS doctors.

Irrelevant. What matters is if the issues he has highlighted get addressed. If any additional issues because of his own behaviour get addressed, then so much the better.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 21 11.12am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Irrelevant. What matters is if the issues he has highlighted get addressed. If any additional issues because of his own behaviour get addressed, then so much the better. The issues aren't significant issues and bad behaviour will always occur.. It's people like you who are the problem....making out that there's some great significance to feck all...you actually create more division than anything else......Poop stirrers. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.17am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 21 11.12am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Irrelevant. What matters is if the issues he has highlighted get addressed. If any additional issues because of his own behaviour get addressed, then so much the better.

The issues aren't significant issues and bad behaviour will always occur..

It's people like you who are the problem....making out that there's some great significance to feck all...you actually create more division than anything else......Poop stirrers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.17am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.26am
Originally posted by Spiderman This fine upstanding Muslim who, allegedly, offered a 17 year old female an alcoholic drink. If proven, this does make him a hypocrite, bearing in mind his testimony about being made to drink alcohol. Of course not proven yet but if so will you agree it is hypocritical of him? Does he claim to be a fine, upstanding Muslim? I think, at least for the moment, we can assume it's true. However, being forced to drink as a youngster is different to being offered and accepting one. Whether he personally has changed his position on drinking alcohol is irrelevant, as is his behaviour on the plane and afterwards, unacceptable though it was. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.26am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Does he claim to be a fine, upstanding Muslim?

I think, at least for the moment, we can assume it's true. However, being forced to drink as a youngster is different to being offered and accepting one. Whether he personally has changed his position on drinking alcohol is irrelevant, as is his behaviour on the plane and afterwards, unacceptable though it was.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.30am
Originally posted by Helmet46 So are you saying that we ignore what he’s done as it’s clearly a distraction? Whether I think that, or not, won't change the way the media will feed the public appetite for scandal. What concerns me is the way this is becoming the story, rather than the much more important one which his testimony highlighted. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.30am

Originally posted by Helmet46

So are you saying that we ignore what he’s done as it’s clearly a distraction?

Whether I think that, or not, won't change the way the media will feed the public appetite for scandal.

What concerns me is the way this is becoming the story, rather than the much more important one which his testimony highlighted.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 21 11.34am
'Forced'....Is this an accurate reflection of all situations it is described for? A lot of the time it's simple language used to describe grey situations. When children or adults are given the bumps on a birthday are they being 'forced'? When someone goes on a hen night or slag do....are they 'forced' into the activities. These people are awful....they create false narratives to gain advantage for their crap ideologies or in Rafiq's case it's probably money for a failed career against people he doesn't like for whatever reason. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.36am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 21 11.34am

'Forced'....Is this an accurate reflection of all situations it is described for?

A lot of the time it's simple language used to describe grey situations.

When children or adults are given the bumps on a birthday are they being 'forced'? When someone goes on a hen night or slag do....are they 'forced' into the activities.

These people are awful....they create false narratives to gain advantage for their crap ideologies or in Rafiq's case it's probably money for a failed career against people he doesn't like for whatever reason.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.36am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.36am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The issues aren't significant issues and bad behaviour will always occur.. It's people like you who are the problem....making out that there's some great significance to feck all...you actually create more division than anything else......Poop stirrers. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.17am) It's people like you who are the problem. Seeking to minimise the issue to the point where it doesn't exist. Fortunately, it seems you are now an increasingly small minority who are being marginalised by events. Times they are a'changing! Edited by Wisbech Eagle (22 Nov 2021 11.37am) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.36am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The issues aren't significant issues and bad behaviour will always occur..

It's people like you who are the problem....making out that there's some great significance to feck all...you actually create more division than anything else......Poop stirrers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.17am)

It's people like you who are the problem. Seeking to minimise the issue to the point where it doesn't exist.

Fortunately, it seems you are now an increasingly small minority who are being marginalised by events. Times they are a'changing!

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (22 Nov 2021 11.37am)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 21 11.39am
No, I'm in the significant majority. The ideologies of the people in charge are actually in the minority well actually most of them are cowards scared to stand up against it.....The original Yorkshire board will be celebrated, in the future, for not kneeling and destroying people's lives over very little.....that is on others. Most people don't like 'woke', just as they don't like poop stirrers. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.42am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 21 11.39am

No, I'm in the significant majority.

The ideologies of the people in charge are actually in the minority well actually most of them are cowards scared to stand up against it.....The original Yorkshire board will be celebrated, in the future, for not kneeling and destroying people's lives over very little.....that is on others.

Most people don't like 'woke', just as they don't like poop stirrers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.42am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.42am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays 'Forced'....Is this an accurate reflection of all situations it is described for? A lot of the time it's simple language used to describe grey situations. When children or adults are given the bumps on a birthday are they being 'forced'? When someone goes on a hen night or slag do....are they 'forced' into the activities. These people are awful....they create false narratives to gain advantage for their crap ideologies or in Rafiq's case it's probably money for a failed career against people he doesn't like for whatever reason. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.36am) Did you listen to his testimony? If you did, was your brain engaged, or thinking that how getting the bumps is the equivalent of pouring alcohol down a Muslim teenager's throat. Disgusting! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 11.42am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

'Forced'....Is this an accurate reflection of all situations it is described for?

A lot of the time it's simple language used to describe grey situations.

When children or adults are given the bumps on a birthday are they being 'forced'? When someone goes on a hen night or slag do....are they 'forced' into the activities.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2021 11.36am)

Did you listen to his testimony? If you did, was your brain engaged, or thinking that how getting the bumps is the equivalent of pouring alcohol down a Muslim teenager's throat. Disgusting!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Alert a moderator to this post

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