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Taking the knee (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 10.39am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Well, yes, because your original contention was that no political organisation owns a gesture. I gave an example of one. And as I showed it doesn't "own" it as it has been used for thousands of years by various people. It has just become associated with the Nazis and is now regarded as theirs by common consent. That's us making the judgement and not them owning it. We could take away our consent. Who knows if, when and how that common consent might change but if it became associated with something else it might.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 10.41am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Learn what? Try harder to do what? And how will we know that enough has been learned? That's up to the individual involved.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 09 Dec 20 10.50am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
And as I showed it doesn't "own" it as it has been used for thousands of years by various people. It has just become associated with the Nazis and is now regarded as theirs by common consent. That's us making the judgement and not them owning it. We could take away our consent. Who knows if, when and how that common consent might change but if it became associated with something else it might. You are over intellectualising. A Black power salute is inflammatory and unnecessary. I defend the right of people to express themselves but any action leads to reaction. I certainly don't think that football authorities should allow these kinds of political demonstrations. It is the proverbial slippery slope. Please don't tell me this is non political.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 10.50am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
There are about twenty people on this thread with differences of opinion but hundreds of footballers from all over the world are in complete agreement? On a simple issue of whether they stay together as a team or not yes it seems so. Who knows whether some might have reservations about the wisdom of the gesture and the possibility it might be misinterpreted by people in the way that some have, and clearly still do, as witnessed in this thread. I doubt though whether too many think that deeply about it. They know that discrimination exists. They see it themselves. They know they have an opportunity to make a public gesture that will be seen worldwide and could possibly make a difference. If the leaders within their team back it, and they back their team, then they are being a team player by taking part. Add to that that their employers and the FA back it and you will soon be convinced.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 10.59am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
This feeling has been brewing up for months since last season was finished after the riots. Sincere in some eyes, tainted in disrespect to the nation in others. See the paradox? And yes, alternatives have already happened and passed peacefully. Millwall held their tongues when those stupid qpr players tried to make it more divisive, because the black panther salute isn’t harmonious is it? What riots? Do you mean the protests and attempts at statue removal? Just let the Police deal with them. That's their job. It isn't the job of self-appointed vigilante groups seeking confrontation and making things worse. How we as a nation respond to a re-evaluation of our past can be dealt with peacefully. From what I read the Millwall fans were pressured by the club not to repeat the booing. With so few inside and CCTV watching I suspect fear of bans played a big part. I agree though that the raised fists were a provocative and unwise statement.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.05am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
You don’t know my sexual and dating history lol. I would like to see fair changes made in society that bring fairness to minorities, not these empty, divisive and provocative displays. Seems like you’re losing, or you just don’t like being pressed too much. You and those who take the same position lost this argument pages and pages ago. Dead horses have more chance of winning the Grand National than your argument winning. In truth it never even got to the starting gate. In a race between hobby horses, and there a few owned by people who populate these pages, this one would come last. It's a 3 legged donkey. So did you belong to the National Front?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 11.10am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are over intellectualising. A Black power salute is inflammatory and unnecessary. I defend the right of people to express themselves but any action leads to reaction. I certainly don't think that football authorities should allow these kinds of political demonstrations. It is the proverbial slippery slope. Please don't tell me this is non political. Players weren’t allowed to express themselves before this. Di Canio’s fascist salute got him in a lot of problems, as have others, and taking shifts off ( often to show messages on t shirts) gets a booking.
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| Eaglecoops CR3 09 Dec 20 11.11am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You and those who take the same position lost this argument pages and pages ago. Dead horses have more chance of winning the Grand National than your argument winning. In truth it never even got to the starting gate. In a race between hobby horses, and there a few owned by people who populate these pages, this one would come last. It's a 3 legged donkey. So did you belong to the National Front? Did you belong to The Red Brigades?
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| Badger11 Beckenham 09 Dec 20 11.14am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You and those who take the same position lost this argument pages and pages ago. Dead horses have more chance of winning the Grand National than your argument winning. In truth it never even got to the starting gate. In a race between hobby horses, and there a few owned by people who populate these pages, this one would come last. It's a 3 legged donkey. So did you belong to the National Front? According to you, but then other opinions are not available in your world.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.25am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
By your logic the whole readership of The Telegraph and Daily Mail are former members of the National Front. Anyone who tutted at the demands for the police to kneel and the subservient police must of course be racist former National Front members through your sanctimonious Truro lenses. I’ve heard people that would distance themselves from saying anything like we have a two tier policing system since then say that after the lockdown protests that is exactly what we have. Yes, respectable middle class people eventually see the policing instructed via politics. You frankly disgust me more as time goes on. Not only do you excuse such behaviour from your safe haven but you accuse others of being members of racist organisations because they dare to speak out about it. But that you all over isn’t it? Control of speech, thought and politics. Pretty shameful. Have a day off. The reason I ask is that someone, on another forum I use, posted a leaflet from the National Front published in the 1970s. It read "STOP IMMIGRATION, REJECT the Common Market, RESTORE capital punishment, MAKE Britain great again, SCRAP overseas aid, REBUILD our armed forces. The NF was widely regarded as pseudo-fascist back then but how much of this wish list is now on the agenda of people like you? How far to the right has the right side of Britsh politics now drifted? Which of those policies do you NOT agree with?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.27am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
According to you, but then other opinions are not available in your world. Its not just according to me though is it? Listen to what those involved, and responsible for the actions are saying. Believe them if you don't believe me.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 11.31am |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
There’s no “maybe” about it. It’s a fact. Like the fact viewing figures for American football are down 20%. You are ignoring the "so what". I am sitting in my armchair. That's a fact too. It also has no connection to the issue. Nor by the way does a 20% drop in viewing figures. It's a reaction and not the action.
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