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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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jamiemartin721  Reading 13 Apr 16 10.08am |
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Originally posted by JHB
Really? Every single artificial union in history has fallen apart? Last time I checked the UK and USA still existed but maybe I missed some dramatic news overnight The USA and UK aren't all that old, and arguably events in NI and Scotland, along with the rise of Plydd Cymru, and the establishment of the Welsh Parliament, suggest that the political identity of the UK has massively changed in my lifetime, in an attempt to keep its structure. The USA isn't that old either, the civil war only ended in 1865, and arguably its identity is not really a united states, but Federated State of America, as its a series of independent state laws, bound together by federal legal structure. In terms of a 'real country' the USA we identify is probably not much older than the turn of the 20th century with the end of the 'wild west' and its increasing industrialisation. Politically and culturally, the US is a very divided nation - with a lot of groups focused on independence and self determination of states.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Kermit8  Hevon 13 Apr 16 10.48am |
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6,500 spoken languages in the world and 196 countries. We are all gonna end up coffee coloured.
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| johnfirewall 13 Apr 16 11.19am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
6,500 spoken languages in the world and 196 countries. We are all gonna end up coffee coloured. Does anyone genuinely believe in having no borders or races? You are aware that would result in even fewer people running the whole world? Of course even if we were one land mass again, it would still be a thousand years at the earliest before everyone learnt not to stick to their own. But nothing has really happened in the half century since Lennon sang about it, because geology and genetics have dictated that we're not all identical. Squash all the continents back together in the name of equality if you like but we'd only end up dividing ourselves again. We'd have beige rich and beige poor living apart. What's the fcuking point? Edited by johnfirewall (13 Apr 2016 11.27am)
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 13 Apr 16 12.16pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
btw Always said I was a lefty. It's Labour i am not. Imagine a right-winger not voting Tory. Nigel Farage is a dick, but Corbyn is a massive terrorist sympathising Grade a w***er. Anyway back to the EU: Over a quarter of a million people come to the UK every year from the EU, thats a city the size of Plymouth every year. With no extra help financially that growth is unsustainable. When we joined there were 9 member states there is now 28, most recently Romania Bulgaria and Croatia, five more that are being considered are Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Turkey. all with the same rights as other member states (think bail outs). Then imagine the chaos when our borders literally end on Syria's front doot step. We give approx 350,000,000 every week to the EU, we get about half back, the difference equates to one new NHS hospital per week, and what's more we have no control over how this money is spent. If there is a conflict between an EU member state's national law and EU law, then EU law trumps the national law. We have already been over ruled by the faceless EU bureaucrats on counter terrorism powers, immigration quotas, VAT, and prisoner voting. The new deal that Dodgy Dave has brokered means nothing, after the referendum, the EU can ignore it as it is NOT legally binding no matter what Jamie Martin might like to tell you. Whilst in the EU we CAN NOT negotiate our own trade deals with emerging economies like India China Brazil we have to wait for all the other 27 member states to scrutinise the deal and agree it. Why is every one so adamant you have to be in the EU to trade with it, you don't it's a completely fallacious argument, Switzerland is not in the EU and EXPORTS more to the EU than we do. In essence in business it's only the big banks (that constantly f*** us over) that want to remain in the EU. Small and medium sized firms don't want any part of the EU, they only Export about 6% to the EU but have to abide by all it's bureaucratic nonsense. The European union oor Common market (as it was called at its inception) was designed for trade purposes, not to decide our laws, our borders, our public services, or the rights of prisoners in the UK. It is not fit for purpose and we should leave now while we have the chance. Yes there are associated short term risks, however the long term benefits of free trade with non EU members are exponential compared to staying in a broken power crazed EU. Better ?
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Stuk Top half 13 Apr 16 2.00pm |
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Originally posted by Hoof Hearted
Well.... David Cameron's "£9 million folly" arrived through my letter box yesterday. I'm tempted to send it back to Downing Street like many others are doing, but have given it a cursory glance/speed read and would comment.... It's not a leaflet it's a 16 page high quality booklet with 7 pages just consisting of a glossy photo and strapline. The production costs and postage could have been drastically reduced (to about £1 million in total) if the message was imparted using a 2 sided A4 leaflet delivered by a cheaper courier/distributor than Royal Mail. There is nothing new in the booklet, just the same tired arguments and blatant scaremongering that we are hearing every day. The biggest joke is the statement "We have a commitment to reduce EU red tape"..... well Mr Cameron you haven't done very well in reducing it so far have you? In fact his negotiating skills in trying to get the other 27 EU nations to agree to any of our demands has been pretty useless all round. Lets face it, being in the EU is as good for our country as participating in the Eurovision Song Contest.... the rest of Europe want us in but aren't going to let us win it. My conclusion about Cameron's booklet - total waste of money and full of guff. Edited by Hoof Hearted (13 Apr 2016 10.00am) The part that made me laugh the most was "Canada's deal with the EU will give limited access for services, it has so far been seven years in the making and is still not in force" Could that be because 29 separate countries all have to agree, instead of 2?
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 14 Apr 16 9.31am |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Nigel Farage is a dick, but Corbyn is a massive terrorist sympathising Grade a w***er. Anyway back to the EU: Over a quarter of a million people come to the UK every year from the EU, thats a city the size of Plymouth every year. With no extra help financially that growth is unsustainable. When we joined there were 9 member states there is now 28, most recently Romania Bulgaria and Croatia, five more that are being considered are Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, and Turkey. all with the same rights as other member states (think bail outs). Then imagine the chaos when our borders literally end on Syria's front doot step. We give approx 350,000,000 every week to the EU, we get about half back, the difference equates to one new NHS hospital per week, and what's more we have no control over how this money is spent. If there is a conflict between an EU member state's national law and EU law, then EU law trumps the national law. We have already been over ruled by the faceless EU bureaucrats on counter terrorism powers, immigration quotas, VAT, and prisoner voting. The new deal that Dodgy Dave has brokered means nothing, after the referendum, the EU can ignore it as it is NOT legally binding no matter what Jamie Martin might like to tell you. Whilst in the EU we CAN NOT negotiate our own trade deals with emerging economies like India China Brazil we have to wait for all the other 27 member states to scrutinise the deal and agree it. Why is every one so adamant you have to be in the EU to trade with it, you don't it's a completely fallacious argument, Switzerland is not in the EU and EXPORTS more to the EU than we do. In essence in business it's only the big banks (that constantly f*** us over) that want to remain in the EU. Small and medium sized firms don't want any part of the EU, they only Export about 6% to the EU but have to abide by all it's bureaucratic nonsense. The European union oor Common market (as it was called at its inception) was designed for trade purposes, not to decide our laws, our borders, our public services, or the rights of prisoners in the UK. It is not fit for purpose and we should leave now while we have the chance. Yes there are associated short term risks, however the long term benefits of free trade with non EU members are exponential compared to staying in a broken power crazed EU. Better ? Bit egotistical to bump my own post, however I have answered a certain Scottish socialist and have yet to get a rebuttal. Interesting ......
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 14 Apr 16 9.49am |
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Originally posted by dannyh
Bit egotistical to bump my own post, however I have answered a certain Scottish socialist and have yet to get a rebuttal. Interesting ...... Patience, my good man, patience. I was/am planning to give it the effort and time in reply similar to that which you have put in out of courtesy rather than a rushed post. Tomorrow probably. Addressing your points it'll mostly be about actual impact in real terms of being in the EU and likely risks at exit. Edited by Kermit8 (14 Apr 2016 9.55am)
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| DanH SW2 14 Apr 16 10.31am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Patience, my good man, patience. I was/am planning to give it the effort and time in reply similar to that which you have put in out of courtesy rather than a rushed post. Tomorrow probably. Addressing your points it'll mostly be about actual impact in real terms of being in the EU and likely risks at exit. Edited by Kermit8 (14 Apr 2016 9.55am) Just call him a bum queen and be done with it.
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| dannyh wherever I lay my hat....... 14 Apr 16 10.51am |
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Originally posted by DanH
Just call him a bum queen and be done with it. Says the man in tight jeans and a man bun. Isn't loose women on ? careful you'll miss it.
"It's not the bullet that's got my name on it that concerns me; it's all them other ones flyin' around marked 'To Whom It May Concern.'" |
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| Hoof Hearted 14 Apr 16 11.02am | |
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So..... Jeremy Corbyn has read Cameron's £9 million leaflet and has changed his mind about the EU after 41 years (at least) of being a Euro Sceptic. He voted NO in 1975 and since then has spoken out about the bureaucracy, waste etc on a regular basis. Today he is going to make a speech confirming he and the Labour Party are firmly in the Remain camp. This is what the country thinks of Corbyn's opinions as measured by the device..... Edited by Hoof Hearted (14 Apr 2016 11.03am)
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Attachment: | johnfirewall 14 Apr 16 11.12am |
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On Facebook an acquaintance asked for peoples Brexit views. Most replies were along the below lines: The Out campaign is dominated by Farage and racists This is basically what the left are going by. I've honestly never seen the same people acknowledge the money. Apart from in The Mirror who found an enormous group of 50 NHS staff that said it'd be better spent on hospitals. Even those who pluck out figures to say we'd be richer in Europe only do so as a footnote to the aforementioned reasons to stay. The most abusurd reason, genuinely given by a few people in response to that one Facebook post was that they would do the opposite of Cameron wants, but thought it may be a double-bluff. Edited by johnfirewall (14 Apr 2016 11.15am)
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Apr 16 11.23am |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Does anyone genuinely believe in having no borders or races? You are aware that would result in even fewer people running the whole world? My concern tends to be more with how we think about concepts such as nationality and race, and how these can often be absurd based on the actual reality, rather than the fantasy. Nothing wrong with some forms of nationalism, but when it becomes people making decisions specifically on the basis of their nationality, regardless of the consequences, it becomes very absurd. Also, race, scientifically has no basis - Its a flawed concept based on observation bias and convenience of discrimination (i.e. reducing large groups of people to a few physical characteristics - often for political reasons of using terms like all whites, all blacks, all Asians etc).
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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