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Calais migrant trouble

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 07 Aug 15 11.36am

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 11.22am

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Aug 2015 10.51am

Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 10.29am
Do you think that there should be any immigration controls. If so, why do we need them and what should they be?

Yes, I think there should be immigration controls on non-asylum cases. These should be based on skill, demand for skills, student visas, employment history, criminal history and capacity for self provision in terms of long term immigration.

In terms of short term migration controls, non-migration, the capacity for self sufficiency for the period of their stay and visa, legal documentation etc - bearing in mind most short term immigration relates to tourism.

Asylum should be defined on the risk to the individual from the state in which they're claiming asylum from, and the history of that state.

At last, an answer from the left on these questions - good for you Jamie. I would agree with most of your controls, although the sheer numbers is a major problem. But would like to know why you think we need controls. Presumably you welcome Cameron's attempts (if they are genuine) to introduce such controls on EU immigration? Would also agree with your controls on asylum-seekers. I would be happy to receive genuine refugees, but the current 'system' is riddled with abuse.

There is a political party called UKIP that shares many of your views on controls, perhaps you should consider joining them?

Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Aug 2015 11.58am)

I've been against EU worker migration for as long as its been around, as it undermined the supply and demand factor for wages and fundamentally weakened the position of low skill working class people. The difference is that I don't have an issue with the migrants, but a policy that allows employers to profit at the detriment of society (both here, and in home countries).

UKIP offer no solution to the underlying problems either, they just address the symptom that people have identified (migrants), not the underlying financial exploitation of those migrants and the UK working class. I don't remember them talking about making the minimum wage a real UK wage. Like the conservatives, their problem with it being 'financially benefical' to be on welfare compared to working, was cutting benefits (when the real problem was that benefits were tied to the cost of living and wages were not).

Controls on any system are necessary to protect the existing status quo. Migration per se isn't a problem but the failure of the government to migrate unemployed within the UK into areas where employment demands existed, rather than opting for the cheap solutions of migrant labour.

However, as far as the EU goes, other than the 'right to work where ever' I don't have an issue with the EU or the ECHR etc. I also don't believe the system is riddled with 'abuse', I am yet to be convinced.


 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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nairb75 Flag Baltimore 07 Aug 15 1.31pm Send a Private Message to nairb75 Add nairb75 as a friend

just heard on the news that 125K have come into greece this year, with 50K in july alone. i believe the #'s were around 60% from syria, 20% from afghanistan, 4% from iraq, etc.

can say for sure they all aren't going to be staying in greece. good luck keeping them out of your backyard.

 

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corkery Flag Cork City 07 Aug 15 1.34pm Send a Private Message to corkery Add corkery as a friend

Quote nairb75 at 07 Aug 2015 1.31pm

just heard on the news that 125K have come into greece this year, with 50K in july alone. i believe the #'s were around 60% from syria, 20% from afghanistan, 4% from iraq, etc.

can say for sure they all aren't going to be staying in greece. good luck keeping them out of your backyard.


Ya, the Americans should be taking them. They brought 'freedom' to the middle east.


 


We'll never die

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the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 07 Aug 15 1.46pm Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Aug 2015 9.50am

Quote johnfirewall at 05 Aug 2015 4.33pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Aug 2015 4.25pm

Quote johnfirewall at 05 Aug 2015 4.23pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Aug 2015 4.08pm

Quote johnfirewall at 05 Aug 2015 3.43pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Aug 2015 3.33pm

If all expats decided to come home at once, how would you feel about allowing them in if we are already overcrowded?

Legally it depends if they're still citizens doesn't it, but it's fair to assume they left for a reason as have the migrants.

You seem to favour those with families here. That would likely apply to most expats.


Edited by johnfirewall (05 Aug 2015 3.44pm)


The question was purely a hypothetical one about numbers and people's attitudes to a 'swarm' of expats in our bursting full green and pleasant, rather than reasons / family ties.

They're not going to be ripping the fences down are they. Thay can all re-integrate immediately, likely have accommodation in the UK and won't be entitled to benefits.


Even those ex pats claiming benefits abroad?

That's quite similar to foreign nationals here claiming for children outside of the UK, except this actually happens.

There are limits for how long you can be away, which are significantly shorter than the length of time it'd take to be considered even a de facto expat.

Or do you mean a pension which someone has already paid in to?


UK Benefits, if you're not a citizen, have to be paid in for. Most foreign nationals need to have worked for at least 3 years to be entitled to welfare payments as a foreign national.

Personally I don't believe anyone not resident in the UK, should be able to claim any kind of benefit from the state, except for pension and student subsidies. Those leaving the UK, who have 'worked the requisite period to qualify for benefits' should be paid off based on their tax payments during their time in the UK.



So the £36 a week, free board and lodging isn't a "benefit" then?? Few weeks in a nice ensuite hotel room, free food and WiFi......maybe my old mum should apply, long time since she had a holiday in a nice hotel.

As for your comment re expats/those leaving the country being "paid off"... We paid in for 35 years,we are not
getting anything we are not entitled to! A pension we paid for, are you saying we shouldn't get it???

 

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nairb75 Flag Baltimore 07 Aug 15 2.45pm Send a Private Message to nairb75 Add nairb75 as a friend

Quote corkery at 07 Aug 2015 1.34pm

Quote nairb75 at 07 Aug 2015 1.31pm

just heard on the news that 125K have come into greece this year, with 50K in july alone. i believe the #'s were around 60% from syria, 20% from afghanistan, 4% from iraq, etc.

can say for sure they all aren't going to be staying in greece. good luck keeping them out of your backyard.


Ya, the Americans should be taking them. They brought 'freedom' to the middle east.


no doubt but if that's how we're going to assign these immigrants, england will get a lot more than the few lining up in calaise seeing as they were all on board for the campaigns.

 

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fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 07 Aug 15 6.39pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 06 Aug 2015 12.37pm

Lifted from Facebook, but pertinent to this thread.
I’ve been thinking all day about how I can find the words for what we experienced yesterday.

An hours drive from my house, then half an hour on the Eurotunnel, and we were in the world’s worst refugee camp in terms of resources and conditions, yet we were welcomed with open arms. It’s amazing how only the people who have nothing really know how to share.

The ‘jungle’ (as the camp is known), is loosely and naturally divided by country, with every one of the worlds warzones represented. We walked through ‘Afghanistan’, ‘Syria,’ ‘Eritrea’ and ‘Sudan,’ all living peacefully alongside each other. This struck a chord with me – it was immediately clear that these people, fleeing war and persecution, want anything but conflict. The ‘mosque’ (a wooden frame), next to the church (some wood and tarpaulin, crowned with a wooden cross), right next to each other, representing that we are all the same, regardless of religion or race.

Nothing could have prepared me for hearing the stories of these people first hand.

A man from Afghanistan told me how he had fled his country with over 100 other people with the aim of walking together to England. Many people (mainly women and children) died along the way. They were so hungry they ate grass, and one night, walking through Bulgarian woodland in the dark, he tripped and a stick pierced through his eye. He spent 2 weeks in hospital in Sofia and the group left him behind. He carried on alone and had finally made it to Calais.

Then we met three Eritrean brothers aged 14, 13 and 10. They were alone. Sent by their parents to escape conscription to compulsory, indefinite military service, which is basically slave labour, they had made their way from Eritrea on foot.

And then, a 23-year-old from Dafur, Sudan. He told me that the Gangaweed had come to his village on horseback when he was 18, burnt it to the ground and brutally shot many people, including his dad, just for being black. He was arrested, accused of opposing the government, and put in prison for two years. As soon as he got out, he went back to where the village once was, desperate to find his two little brothers, little sister and mother. He was told his sister was alive and in a nearby town so he went looking for her. She wasn’t there. He searched towns and cities until he was again arrested, as travelling through the country is not permitted. Unable to face any more time in prison, he spent all the money he had to be smuggled to Libya. Here he started his journey, on foot and alone to England.

England..where everybody is always smiling and no one has problems, he told me. “Is it this cold in England?”, he asked in the middle of a sunny day in August. His expectations, and the reality of his life if he ever does make it to England, make my heart hurt.

He told me he doesn’t feel the hunger (the refugees get one free meal a day they have to queue for hours for), or the cold (I cant even begin to imagine winter in this camp), he just feels the pain of his lost family. Each time he spoke the word family, his voice broke and he put his head in his hands. Crying, he told me that every time he closes his eyes, he sees his mother, telling him he is a good boy, and that he is doing the right thing. ‘Why then, am I living like an animal?’ he asked me.

Every night he walks a few miles to the tunnel in an attempt to make it to England, although he told me he was taking a couple of days break from trying to allow his leg to heal. He proceeded to show me a huge bruise on his calf from where he had been hit by a police baton.

Many many people from Sudan tell the same story. Persecuted for being black, many have seen their entire family killed infront of their eyes.

We sat for ages in the Sudanese part of the camp. The guys here searched the surroundings to find the most mis-match selection of chairs, and even made us tea over an open fire. ‘You are our guests’ they told us, infront of the opening to their makeshift tents.

Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice.

These people aren't migrants...these are REFUGEES. They can't go back, but they can't go forward, they are stuck, trying to create some kind of normal life from a bit of tarpaulin and a blanket.

And they are heroes. Their stories show more determination, strength and courage than anything I have ever heard from anyone in the UK. They should be an inspiration to us all...yet they are portrayed by our media as a drain on our society, scrounging our benefits. This couldn't be further from the truth. These people WANT to work, want to earn enough money to pay tax, and want to be given the opportunities they deserve.

These people are desperate. On the one hand we commemorate holocaust Memorial Day, yet on the other we turn away at people facing as extreme persecution as the Jews, right on our doorstep.

What the actual f***?

A sign in the camp read 'we must all learn to live together like brothers, or we will die together like idiots'.

This needs to happen, and quick.

Many people didn't want us to take their picture, scared of the negative media representation, but also in case their families face repercussions under repressive governments back home. They are also ashamed; ashamed to be living in such an undignified manner.

We'll be going back next week to start filming, as sensitively as possible, with the aim of sharing the stories of these inspirational people. We're also stocking up on men's shoes, men's clothing, SIM cards, old phones (people are desperate to call home) and anything else people many be able to donate...

If you would like to donate, here are the drop off points:

[Link]


For goodness sakes, what a load of old guff. The only money I'll donate is to send them back to their country of origin. And that rubbish of having no choice of coming here? There's plenty of other European countries so they have every choice.

 

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fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 07 Aug 15 6.43pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Quote the silurian at 07 Aug 2015 1.46pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Aug 2015 9.50am

Quote johnfirewall at 05 Aug 2015 4.33pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Aug 2015 4.25pm

Quote johnfirewall at 05 Aug 2015 4.23pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Aug 2015 4.08pm

Quote johnfirewall at 05 Aug 2015 3.43pm

Quote nickgusset at 05 Aug 2015 3.33pm

If all expats decided to come home at once, how would you feel about allowing them in if we are already overcrowded?

Legally it depends if they're still citizens doesn't it, but it's fair to assume they left for a reason as have the migrants.

You seem to favour those with families here. That would likely apply to most expats.


Edited by johnfirewall (05 Aug 2015 3.44pm)


The question was purely a hypothetical one about numbers and people's attitudes to a 'swarm' of expats in our bursting full green and pleasant, rather than reasons / family ties.

They're not going to be ripping the fences down are they. Thay can all re-integrate immediately, likely have accommodation in the UK and won't be entitled to benefits.


Even those ex pats claiming benefits abroad?

That's quite similar to foreign nationals here claiming for children outside of the UK, except this actually happens.

There are limits for how long you can be away, which are significantly shorter than the length of time it'd take to be considered even a de facto expat.

Or do you mean a pension which someone has already paid in to?


UK Benefits, if you're not a citizen, have to be paid in for. Most foreign nationals need to have worked for at least 3 years to be entitled to welfare payments as a foreign national.

Personally I don't believe anyone not resident in the UK, should be able to claim any kind of benefit from the state, except for pension and student subsidies. Those leaving the UK, who have 'worked the requisite period to qualify for benefits' should be paid off based on their tax payments during their time in the UK.



So the £36 a week, free board and lodging isn't a "benefit" then?? Few weeks in a nice ensuite hotel room, free food and WiFi......maybe my old mum should apply, long time since she had a holiday in a nice hotel.

As for your comment re expats/those leaving the country being "paid off"... We paid in for 35 years,we are not
getting anything we are not entitled to! A pension we paid for, are you saying we shouldn't get it???

Yeah that's what he's saying and the more I read it the more ludicrous it sounds doesn't it? For the record I agree with you.

 

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 07 Aug 15 10.40pm

Perhaps Legaleagle and his cohorts on here should get on some Greek forums and tell them how they are so lucky being enriched by this.

[Link]

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 08 Aug 15 10.17am Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

The situation across the whole of Europe is getting worse and I think this old article says it all really.
[Link]

The figures are terrible and something has to be done!

[Link]

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 08 Aug 15 5.21pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Quote leggedstruggle at 07 Aug 2015 10.40pm

Perhaps Legaleagle and his cohorts on here should get on some Greek forums and tell them how they are so lucky being enriched by this.

[Link]


Don't worry @Leggedstruggle, they probably are already being sanctimonious and patronising on Greek forums telling them how this invasion is a such a wonderful thing and despite their country being more or less bankrupt they must lavish benefits on them and anyone who disagrees with them is a facist, Hitler loving murderer and that they'll burn in hell.

 

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fed up eagle Flag Between Horley, Surrey and Preston... 08 Aug 15 5.31pm Send a Private Message to fed up eagle Add fed up eagle as a friend

Quote susmik at 08 Aug 2015 10.17am

The situation across the whole of Europe is getting worse and I think this old article says it all really.
[Link]

The figures are terrible and something has to be done!

[Link]

Good articles that show how this nonsense is getting completely out of hand. The only thing to do is to stop the boats leaving in the first place, but this won't happen and they'll continue to come and soon we'll be over run, but the liberals are more than happy to acommadate them with your money.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 08 Aug 15 8.04pm

Erm, why are people coming out of Libya in particular do you think? What caused this?

Quote fed up eagle at 08 Aug 2015 5.31pm

Quote susmik at 08 Aug 2015 10.17am

The situation across the whole of Europe is getting worse and I think this old article says it all really.
[Link]

The figures are terrible and something has to be done!

[Link]

Good articles that show how this nonsense is getting completely out of hand. The only thing to do is to stop the boats leaving in the first place, but this won't happen and they'll continue to come and soon we'll be over run, but the liberals are more than happy to acommadate them with your money.


 

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