Rafiq

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PalazioVecchio south pole 21 Nov 21 1.26pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman Twice. That was one of a couple of things that made me doubt a lot or all of this. Then we should take his intentions as pure as the usual want them to be after it appears he had opinions on Jews making him look a hypocrite. The problem with things like this is there’s one thing after another every day and until everything is in front of you you could still be making the wrong call, but this Rafiq doesn’t look like the man the people behind should’ve been looking to use. its a bit like George Floyd. Before the media wish to sacrifice an anti-racism victim on the altar of Political Correctness, the media must ensure he is of clean soul. No previous criminality or dodgy history is to be permitted. The media will quietly shelf Rafiq and keep searching for an ethnic jesus to crucify for all our sins. When really it is the nasty White man being crucified. The Rafiq PC circus is dead, longlive the PC circus. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 21 Nov 21 1.26pm

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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Twice. That was one of a couple of things that made me doubt a lot or all of this. Then we should take his intentions as pure as the usual want them to be after it appears he had opinions on Jews making him look a hypocrite. The problem with things like this is there’s one thing after another every day and until everything is in front of you you could still be making the wrong call, but this Rafiq doesn’t look like the man the people behind should’ve been looking to use.

its a bit like George Floyd. Before the media wish to sacrifice an anti-racism victim on the altar of Political Correctness, the media must ensure he is of clean soul. No previous criminality or dodgy history is to be permitted.

The media will quietly shelf Rafiq and keep searching for an ethnic jesus to crucify for all our sins. When really it is the nasty White man being crucified.

The Rafiq PC circus is dead, longlive the PC circus.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Nov 21 1.53pm
Interesting response from his legal team when asked on Friday about the text messages to the girl. "Speaking to the Yorkshire Post last night, a spokesperson for Rafiq's legal team said: 'This was put to us late on a Friday evening. We need to look into this, so cannot comment further for now." Okay well now it's Sunday morning and still no response. If innocent how long does it take to issue a denial? Not a good look from him and his legal team. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Nov 21 1.53pm

Interesting response from his legal team when asked on Friday about the text messages to the girl.

"Speaking to the Yorkshire Post last night, a spokesperson for Rafiq's legal team said: 'This was put to us late on a Friday evening. We need to look into this, so cannot comment further for now."

Okay well now it's Sunday morning and still no response. If innocent how long does it take to issue a denial?

Not a good look from him and his legal team.

One more point

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The Dolphin 21 Nov 21 7.57pm
The media generally will pretend he has never done anything wrong and that if he has it doesn't matter as it does not suit their narrative! Pathetic.
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The Dolphin

21 Nov 21 7.57pm

The media generally will pretend he has never done anything wrong and that if he has it doesn't matter as it does not suit their narrative!
Pathetic.

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Helmet46 Croydon 22 Nov 21 8.16am
Originally posted by cryrst I do think he's wishing for the whole thing to go away but Pandoras box is open. Wheres orange gone? I’ve not really been following this on every page as I switched off after he started boasting about his business success and asked if someone was ‘jealous’ (envious?) of his financial success - so I may have missed some posts. However, from those comments I can only surmise that he may be struggling to extricate himself from the confines of his own rectum. :} I expect he (Rafiq) is wishing it would all go away, however, that it highlights issues across all spheres (his as well as others) will hopefully help educate all. That he did what he did should not dilute what was done to him, either. So a much wider and more inclusive enquiry I would suggest. Edited by Helmet46 (22 Nov 2021 9.14am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 22 Nov 21 8.16am

Originally posted by cryrst

I do think he's wishing for the whole thing to go away but Pandoras box is open. Wheres orange gone?

I’ve not really been following this on every page as I switched off after he started boasting about his business success and asked if someone was ‘jealous’ (envious?) of his financial success - so I may have missed some posts.
However, from those comments I can only surmise that he may be struggling to extricate himself from the confines of his own rectum. :}

I expect he (Rafiq) is wishing it would all go away, however, that it highlights issues across all spheres (his as well as others) will hopefully help educate all. That he did what he did should not dilute what was done to him, either. So a much wider and more inclusive enquiry I would suggest.

Edited by Helmet46 (22 Nov 2021 9.14am)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 8.56am
I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing. Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller. Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee. Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change. I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Nov 21 8.56am

I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing.

Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller.

Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee.

Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change.

I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Badger11 Beckenham 22 Nov 21 9.13am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing. Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller. Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee. Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change. I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message. If you publicly criticise the character of other public figures it is only right and proper that your behaviour is also examined. This happens all the time in courts and the media. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 22 Nov 21 9.13am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing.

Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller.

I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message.

If you publicly criticise the character of other public figures it is only right and proper that your behaviour is also examined. This happens all the time in courts and the media.

One more point

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Helmet46 Croydon 22 Nov 21 9.24am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing. Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller. Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee. Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change. I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message. I broadly agree here. There is clearly a culture that needs to change but an equal focus does need to placed upon this from all sides. For example any anti-semitism needs to be looked at through the same lens. His testimony was powerful and, regardless of his character, what happened to him is unacceptable. He may be no angel and, in my opinion, needs to be thoroughly investigated for his misdemeanours in exactly the same way but it ALL needs to be stamped out for the next person and the one after that etc etc. Edited by Helmet46 (22 Nov 2021 9.25am)
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Helmet46

Croydon 22 Nov 21 9.24am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing.

Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller.

I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message.

I broadly agree here. There is clearly a culture that needs to change but an equal focus does need to placed upon this from all sides. For example any anti-semitism needs to be looked at through the same lens. His testimony was powerful and, regardless of his character, what happened to him is unacceptable. He may be no angel and, in my opinion, needs to be thoroughly investigated for his misdemeanours in exactly the same way but it ALL needs to be stamped out for the next person and the one after that etc etc.

Edited by Helmet46 (22 Nov 2021 9.25am)

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 21 9.27am
People rarely think about consequences. Apart from the destruction of worthwhile careers based upon 'feelings'. The only practical outcome from this will be distrust and informal separation. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 21 9.27am

People rarely think about consequences.

Apart from the destruction of worthwhile careers based upon 'feelings'. The only practical outcome from this will be distrust and informal separation.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Nov 21 9.34am
Originally posted by Helmet46 I broadly agree here. There is clearly a culture that needs to change but an equal focus does need to placed upon this from all sides. For example any anti-semitism needs to be looked at through the same lens. His testimony was powerful and, regardless of his character, what happened to him is unacceptable. He may be no angel and, in my opinion, needs to be thoroughly investigated for his misdemeanours in exactly the same way but it ALL needs to be stamped out for the next person and the one after that etc etc. Edited by Helmet46 (22 Nov 2021 9.25am) Do you? This is a lesson in human behaviour. The hypocrisy and self serving attitudes of some, and the gullibility of those happy to lap up anything that appears to confirm their flimsy belief system. This guy was happy to ruin people's live for historical behaviour, the nature of which is highly questionable, and yet we are supposed to forgive him for indulging in similar if not far more serious behaviour so that he can still be held up as some sort of champion for an agenda that is itself dubious in the extreme. None of this is about equality or racism. This is about controlling the message for personal gain. How anyone believes in the sincerity of any of this is beyond me. This is just the gullible being led by the cynical.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Nov 21 9.34am

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Originally posted by Helmet46

I broadly agree here. There is clearly a culture that needs to change but an equal focus does need to placed upon this from all sides. For example any anti-semitism needs to be looked at through the same lens. His testimony was powerful and, regardless of his character, what happened to him is unacceptable. He may be no angel and, in my opinion, needs to be thoroughly investigated for his misdemeanours in exactly the same way but it ALL needs to be stamped out for the next person and the one after that etc etc.

Edited by Helmet46 (22 Nov 2021 9.25am)

Do you?

This is a lesson in human behaviour. The hypocrisy and self serving attitudes of some, and the gullibility of those happy to lap up anything that appears to confirm their flimsy belief system.

This guy was happy to ruin people's live for historical behaviour, the nature of which is highly questionable, and yet we are supposed to forgive him for indulging in similar if not far more serious behaviour so that he can still be held up as some sort of champion for an agenda that is itself dubious in the extreme.

None of this is about equality or racism. This is about controlling the message for personal gain. How anyone believes in the sincerity of any of this is beyond me.
This is just the gullible being led by the cynical.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 22 Nov 21 9.44am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing. Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller. Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee. Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change. I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message. He knew why he didn’t make claims about himself. Change of a culture in work or sport are fair enough if there’s a culture of bullying or using race in unacceptable ways, or perhaps any if some don’t understand the differences or pick up on what’s innocent and use it for their hatred or ignorance way. But if this guy has serious question marks over his character and attitude towards others and certain groups then this should be remembered and in no way should he start receiving any compensation etc. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 22 Nov 21 9.44am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing.

Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller.

I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message.

He knew why he didn’t make claims about himself. Change of a culture in work or sport are fair enough if there’s a culture of bullying or using race in unacceptable ways, or perhaps any if some don’t understand the differences or pick up on what’s innocent and use it for their hatred or ignorance way. But if this guy has serious question marks over his character and attitude towards others and certain groups then this should be remembered and in no way should he start receiving any compensation etc.

COYP

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Eaglecoops CR3 22 Nov 21 9.55am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing. Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller. Rafiq doesn't claim to be a saint, or even a nice guy. His testimony made clear he was as much part of the problem as anyone else. If true, and these accusations have every indication that they probably are, they wouldn't be the first of this kind to ever been made, but would never have seen the light of day unless someone someone had gone looking for them because of his evidence to the committee. Does this make him a hypocrite? Not in my book, because he didn't make claims about himself. He described a culture that needs to be changed. Does it change what needs to happen? Not in any way. If what he described is true, and it seems probable it is, then it needs to change. I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message. Credibility is everything and Rafiq no longer has any. Putting him up as poster boy for racial awareness is akin to putting Harold Shipman up as a shining example of NHS doctors.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 22 Nov 21 9.55am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I haven't read this thread for a few days as the story appeared to have been told and what happens next is now the most important thing.

Having read the last couple of pages, it's informative, yet unsurprising, that there is nothing at all about the actual story and lots and lots of character assassination of the storyteller.

I have no doubt though that those who don't like the implications of what needs to change will continue to try to find ways to shoot the messenger. Rather than listen to the message.

Credibility is everything and Rafiq no longer has any. Putting him up as poster boy for racial awareness is akin to putting Harold Shipman up as a shining example of NHS doctors.

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Helmet46 Croydon 22 Nov 21 10.02am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Do you? This is a lesson in human behaviour. The hypocrisy and self serving attitudes of some, and the gullibility of those happy to lap up anything that appears to confirm their flimsy belief system. This guy was happy to ruin people's live for historical behaviour, the nature of which is highly questionable, and yet we are supposed to forgive him for indulging in similar if not far more serious behaviour so that he can still be held up as some sort of champion for an agenda that is itself dubious in the extreme. None of this is about equality or racism. This is about controlling the message for personal gain. How anyone believes in the sincerity of any of this is beyond me. This is just the gullible being led by the cynical. Indeed. My worry is balance and that’s what I said (or tried to). He should not have been treated how he was by cricket (and I take this at face value) and that needs to change and stop for the future - BUT he should also be viewed as a perpetrator for what he did - and that needs to be highlighted, investigated and him treated in exactly the same way. (So in the public eye, as his case set that particular hare running). If we start to have a different set of rules for the minority in these situations then that is a path that ultimately leads to anarchy as the pendulum just swings the other way. That seems to be what I am seeing on these pages and in the media. I defy anyone to argue that absolute equality should work both ways. I’m not saying the balance is right now - far from it - but what I am saying is that in trying to get it right we are going too far the other way and that is dangerous. My worry with the direction we are heading and with this particular case is that his misdemeanours seem to be have been glossed over and not reported upon, as he gave a ‘heartfelt apology’ and that cannot be allowed to happen if we don’t do the same to misdemeanours in the other direction.
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Helmet46

Croydon 22 Nov 21 10.02am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do you?

This is a lesson in human behaviour. The hypocrisy and self serving attitudes of some, and the gullibility of those happy to lap up anything that appears to confirm their flimsy belief system.

Indeed. My worry is balance and that’s what I said (or tried to). He should not have been treated how he was by cricket (and I take this at face value) and that needs to change and stop for the future - BUT he should also be viewed as a perpetrator for what he did - and that needs to be highlighted, investigated and him treated in exactly the same way. (So in the public eye, as his case set that particular hare running).

If we start to have a different set of rules for the minority in these situations then that is a path that ultimately leads to anarchy as the pendulum just swings the other way. That seems to be what I am seeing on these pages and in the media. I defy anyone to argue that absolute equality should work both ways. I’m not saying the balance is right now - far from it - but what I am saying is that in trying to get it right we are going too far the other way and that is dangerous.

My worry with the direction we are heading and with this particular case is that his misdemeanours seem to be have been glossed over and not reported upon, as he gave a ‘heartfelt apology’ and that cannot be allowed to happen if we don’t do the same to misdemeanours in the other direction.

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