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Calais migrant trouble
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jamiemartin721  Reading 06 Aug 15 10.51am |
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Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 10.29am
Do you think that there should be any immigration controls. If so, why do we need them and what should they be? Yes, I think there should be immigration controls on non-asylum cases. These should be based on skill, demand for skills, student visas, employment history, criminal history and capacity for self provision in terms of long term immigration. In terms of short term migration controls, non-migration, the capacity for self sufficiency for the period of their stay and visa, legal documentation etc - bearing in mind most short term immigration relates to tourism. Asylum should be defined on the risk to the individual from the state in which they're claiming asylum from, and the history of that state.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| leggedstruggle Croydon 06 Aug 15 11.22am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 06 Aug 2015 10.51am
Quote leggedstruggle at 06 Aug 2015 10.29am
Do you think that there should be any immigration controls. If so, why do we need them and what should they be? Yes, I think there should be immigration controls on non-asylum cases. These should be based on skill, demand for skills, student visas, employment history, criminal history and capacity for self provision in terms of long term immigration. In terms of short term migration controls, non-migration, the capacity for self sufficiency for the period of their stay and visa, legal documentation etc - bearing in mind most short term immigration relates to tourism. Asylum should be defined on the risk to the individual from the state in which they're claiming asylum from, and the history of that state. At last, an answer from the left on these questions - good for you Jamie. I would agree with most of your controls, although the sheer numbers is a major problem. But would like to know why you think we need controls. Presumably you welcome Cameron's attempts (if they are genuine) to introduce such controls on EU immigration? Would also agree with your controls on asylum-seekers. I would be happy to receive genuine refugees, but the current 'system' is riddled with abuse. There is a political party called UKIP that shares many of your views on controls, perhaps you should consider joining them? Edited by leggedstruggle (06 Aug 2015 11.58am)
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Aug 15 12.37pm |
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Lifted from Facebook, but pertinent to this thread. An hours drive from my house, then half an hour on the Eurotunnel, and we were in the world’s worst refugee camp in terms of resources and conditions, yet we were welcomed with open arms. It’s amazing how only the people who have nothing really know how to share. The ‘jungle’ (as the camp is known), is loosely and naturally divided by country, with every one of the worlds warzones represented. We walked through ‘Afghanistan’, ‘Syria,’ ‘Eritrea’ and ‘Sudan,’ all living peacefully alongside each other. This struck a chord with me – it was immediately clear that these people, fleeing war and persecution, want anything but conflict. The ‘mosque’ (a wooden frame), next to the church (some wood and tarpaulin, crowned with a wooden cross), right next to each other, representing that we are all the same, regardless of religion or race. Nothing could have prepared me for hearing the stories of these people first hand. A man from Afghanistan told me how he had fled his country with over 100 other people with the aim of walking together to England. Many people (mainly women and children) died along the way. They were so hungry they ate grass, and one night, walking through Bulgarian woodland in the dark, he tripped and a stick pierced through his eye. He spent 2 weeks in hospital in Sofia and the group left him behind. He carried on alone and had finally made it to Calais. Then we met three Eritrean brothers aged 14, 13 and 10. They were alone. Sent by their parents to escape conscription to compulsory, indefinite military service, which is basically slave labour, they had made their way from Eritrea on foot. And then, a 23-year-old from Dafur, Sudan. He told me that the Gangaweed had come to his village on horseback when he was 18, burnt it to the ground and brutally shot many people, including his dad, just for being black. He was arrested, accused of opposing the government, and put in prison for two years. As soon as he got out, he went back to where the village once was, desperate to find his two little brothers, little sister and mother. He was told his sister was alive and in a nearby town so he went looking for her. She wasn’t there. He searched towns and cities until he was again arrested, as travelling through the country is not permitted. Unable to face any more time in prison, he spent all the money he had to be smuggled to Libya. Here he started his journey, on foot and alone to England. England..where everybody is always smiling and no one has problems, he told me. “Is it this cold in England?”, he asked in the middle of a sunny day in August. His expectations, and the reality of his life if he ever does make it to England, make my heart hurt. He told me he doesn’t feel the hunger (the refugees get one free meal a day they have to queue for hours for), or the cold (I cant even begin to imagine winter in this camp), he just feels the pain of his lost family. Each time he spoke the word family, his voice broke and he put his head in his hands. Crying, he told me that every time he closes his eyes, he sees his mother, telling him he is a good boy, and that he is doing the right thing. ‘Why then, am I living like an animal?’ he asked me. Every night he walks a few miles to the tunnel in an attempt to make it to England, although he told me he was taking a couple of days break from trying to allow his leg to heal. He proceeded to show me a huge bruise on his calf from where he had been hit by a police baton. Many many people from Sudan tell the same story. Persecuted for being black, many have seen their entire family killed infront of their eyes. We sat for ages in the Sudanese part of the camp. The guys here searched the surroundings to find the most mis-match selection of chairs, and even made us tea over an open fire. ‘You are our guests’ they told us, infront of the opening to their makeshift tents. Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice. These people aren't migrants...these are REFUGEES. They can't go back, but they can't go forward, they are stuck, trying to create some kind of normal life from a bit of tarpaulin and a blanket. And they are heroes. Their stories show more determination, strength and courage than anything I have ever heard from anyone in the UK. They should be an inspiration to us all...yet they are portrayed by our media as a drain on our society, scrounging our benefits. This couldn't be further from the truth. These people WANT to work, want to earn enough money to pay tax, and want to be given the opportunities they deserve. These people are desperate. On the one hand we commemorate holocaust Memorial Day, yet on the other we turn away at people facing as extreme persecution as the Jews, right on our doorstep. What the actual f***? A sign in the camp read 'we must all learn to live together like brothers, or we will die together like idiots'. This needs to happen, and quick. Many people didn't want us to take their picture, scared of the negative media representation, but also in case their families face repercussions under repressive governments back home. They are also ashamed; ashamed to be living in such an undignified manner. We'll be going back next week to start filming, as sensitively as possible, with the aim of sharing the stories of these inspirational people. We're also stocking up on men's shoes, men's clothing, SIM cards, old phones (people are desperate to call home) and anything else people many be able to donate... If you would like to donate, here are the drop off points:
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 johnfirewall 06 Aug 15 6.52pm |
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Not sure what I'm reading here. "Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice."
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Aug 15 7.24pm |
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Quote johnfirewall at 06 Aug 2015 6.52pm
Not sure what I'm reading here. "Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice."
Either way, conditions in the camp aren't that good, so to my mind it is a humanitarian issue.
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| johnfirewall 06 Aug 15 7.42pm |
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If you get that idea in your head and you're of the mindset that they MUST come here, then details don't matter. Same with the point you made that individual stories are irrelevant if you don't want anyone in the country. Overall though it seems she's just an attention seeking posh-o who wants to make a film about it. Edited by johnfirewall (06 Aug 2015 7.43pm)
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| davenotamonkey 07 Aug 15 2.21am |
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Quote nickgusset at 06 Aug 2015 12.37pm
Lifted from Facebook, but pertinent to this thread. An hours drive from my house, then half an hour on the Eurotunnel, and we were in the world’s worst refugee camp in terms of resources and conditions, yet we were welcomed with open arms. It’s amazing how only the people who have nothing really know how to share. The ‘jungle’ (as the camp is known), is loosely and naturally divided by country, with every one of the worlds warzones represented. We walked through ‘Afghanistan’, ‘Syria,’ ‘Eritrea’ and ‘Sudan,’ all living peacefully alongside each other. This struck a chord with me – it was immediately clear that these people, fleeing war and persecution, want anything but conflict. The ‘mosque’ (a wooden frame), next to the church (some wood and tarpaulin, crowned with a wooden cross), right next to each other, representing that we are all the same, regardless of religion or race. Nothing could have prepared me for hearing the stories of these people first hand. A man from Afghanistan told me how he had fled his country with over 100 other people with the aim of walking together to England. Many people (mainly women and children) died along the way. They were so hungry they ate grass, and one night, walking through Bulgarian woodland in the dark, he tripped and a stick pierced through his eye. He spent 2 weeks in hospital in Sofia and the group left him behind. He carried on alone and had finally made it to Calais. Then we met three Eritrean brothers aged 14, 13 and 10. They were alone. Sent by their parents to escape conscription to compulsory, indefinite military service, which is basically slave labour, they had made their way from Eritrea on foot. And then, a 23-year-old from Dafur, Sudan. He told me that the Gangaweed had come to his village on horseback when he was 18, burnt it to the ground and brutally shot many people, including his dad, just for being black. He was arrested, accused of opposing the government, and put in prison for two years. As soon as he got out, he went back to where the village once was, desperate to find his two little brothers, little sister and mother. He was told his sister was alive and in a nearby town so he went looking for her. She wasn’t there. He searched towns and cities until he was again arrested, as travelling through the country is not permitted. Unable to face any more time in prison, he spent all the money he had to be smuggled to Libya. Here he started his journey, on foot and alone to England. England..where everybody is always smiling and no one has problems, he told me. “Is it this cold in England?”, he asked in the middle of a sunny day in August. His expectations, and the reality of his life if he ever does make it to England, make my heart hurt. He told me he doesn’t feel the hunger (the refugees get one free meal a day they have to queue for hours for), or the cold (I cant even begin to imagine winter in this camp), he just feels the pain of his lost family. Each time he spoke the word family, his voice broke and he put his head in his hands. Crying, he told me that every time he closes his eyes, he sees his mother, telling him he is a good boy, and that he is doing the right thing. ‘Why then, am I living like an animal?’ he asked me. Every night he walks a few miles to the tunnel in an attempt to make it to England, although he told me he was taking a couple of days break from trying to allow his leg to heal. He proceeded to show me a huge bruise on his calf from where he had been hit by a police baton. Many many people from Sudan tell the same story. Persecuted for being black, many have seen their entire family killed infront of their eyes. We sat for ages in the Sudanese part of the camp. The guys here searched the surroundings to find the most mis-match selection of chairs, and even made us tea over an open fire. ‘You are our guests’ they told us, infront of the opening to their makeshift tents. Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice. These people aren't migrants...these are REFUGEES. They can't go back, but they can't go forward, they are stuck, trying to create some kind of normal life from a bit of tarpaulin and a blanket. And they are heroes. Their stories show more determination, strength and courage than anything I have ever heard from anyone in the UK. They should be an inspiration to us all...yet they are portrayed by our media as a drain on our society, scrounging our benefits. This couldn't be further from the truth. These people WANT to work, want to earn enough money to pay tax, and want to be given the opportunities they deserve. These people are desperate. On the one hand we commemorate holocaust Memorial Day, yet on the other we turn away at people facing as extreme persecution as the Jews, right on our doorstep. What the actual f***? A sign in the camp read 'we must all learn to live together like brothers, or we will die together like idiots'. This needs to happen, and quick. Many people didn't want us to take their picture, scared of the negative media representation, but also in case their families face repercussions under repressive governments back home. They are also ashamed; ashamed to be living in such an undignified manner. We'll be going back next week to start filming, as sensitively as possible, with the aim of sharing the stories of these inspirational people. We're also stocking up on men's shoes, men's clothing, SIM cards, old phones (people are desperate to call home) and anything else people many be able to donate... If you would like to donate, here are the drop off points: Gap yah virtue signalling. Shoe-in for a Gruan job no doubt, if Daddy has the contacts. "world’s worst refugee camp"??? Two weeks in hospital in Sofia, yet didn't think to claim asylum there? Perhaps it slipped his mind? Indeed, asylum where it's genuinely needed (so why not in France, where they are), but a non-trivial number of those in the camp (which is, in terms of inward migration, a tiny number anyway) are economic migrants.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Aug 15 2.39am |
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Quote davenotamonkey at 07 Aug 2015 2.21am
Quote nickgusset at 06 Aug 2015 12.37pm
Lifted from Facebook, but pertinent to this thread. An hours drive from my house, then half an hour on the Eurotunnel, and we were in the world’s worst refugee camp in terms of resources and conditions, yet we were welcomed with open arms. It’s amazing how only the people who have nothing really know how to share. The ‘jungle’ (as the camp is known), is loosely and naturally divided by country, with every one of the worlds warzones represented. We walked through ‘Afghanistan’, ‘Syria,’ ‘Eritrea’ and ‘Sudan,’ all living peacefully alongside each other. This struck a chord with me – it was immediately clear that these people, fleeing war and persecution, want anything but conflict. The ‘mosque’ (a wooden frame), next to the church (some wood and tarpaulin, crowned with a wooden cross), right next to each other, representing that we are all the same, regardless of religion or race. Nothing could have prepared me for hearing the stories of these people first hand. A man from Afghanistan told me how he had fled his country with over 100 other people with the aim of walking together to England. Many people (mainly women and children) died along the way. They were so hungry they ate grass, and one night, walking through Bulgarian woodland in the dark, he tripped and a stick pierced through his eye. He spent 2 weeks in hospital in Sofia and the group left him behind. He carried on alone and had finally made it to Calais. Then we met three Eritrean brothers aged 14, 13 and 10. They were alone. Sent by their parents to escape conscription to compulsory, indefinite military service, which is basically slave labour, they had made their way from Eritrea on foot. And then, a 23-year-old from Dafur, Sudan. He told me that the Gangaweed had come to his village on horseback when he was 18, burnt it to the ground and brutally shot many people, including his dad, just for being black. He was arrested, accused of opposing the government, and put in prison for two years. As soon as he got out, he went back to where the village once was, desperate to find his two little brothers, little sister and mother. He was told his sister was alive and in a nearby town so he went looking for her. She wasn’t there. He searched towns and cities until he was again arrested, as travelling through the country is not permitted. Unable to face any more time in prison, he spent all the money he had to be smuggled to Libya. Here he started his journey, on foot and alone to England. England..where everybody is always smiling and no one has problems, he told me. “Is it this cold in England?”, he asked in the middle of a sunny day in August. His expectations, and the reality of his life if he ever does make it to England, make my heart hurt. He told me he doesn’t feel the hunger (the refugees get one free meal a day they have to queue for hours for), or the cold (I cant even begin to imagine winter in this camp), he just feels the pain of his lost family. Each time he spoke the word family, his voice broke and he put his head in his hands. Crying, he told me that every time he closes his eyes, he sees his mother, telling him he is a good boy, and that he is doing the right thing. ‘Why then, am I living like an animal?’ he asked me. Every night he walks a few miles to the tunnel in an attempt to make it to England, although he told me he was taking a couple of days break from trying to allow his leg to heal. He proceeded to show me a huge bruise on his calf from where he had been hit by a police baton. Many many people from Sudan tell the same story. Persecuted for being black, many have seen their entire family killed infront of their eyes. We sat for ages in the Sudanese part of the camp. The guys here searched the surroundings to find the most mis-match selection of chairs, and even made us tea over an open fire. ‘You are our guests’ they told us, infront of the opening to their makeshift tents. Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice. These people aren't migrants...these are REFUGEES. They can't go back, but they can't go forward, they are stuck, trying to create some kind of normal life from a bit of tarpaulin and a blanket. And they are heroes. Their stories show more determination, strength and courage than anything I have ever heard from anyone in the UK. They should be an inspiration to us all...yet they are portrayed by our media as a drain on our society, scrounging our benefits. This couldn't be further from the truth. These people WANT to work, want to earn enough money to pay tax, and want to be given the opportunities they deserve. These people are desperate. On the one hand we commemorate holocaust Memorial Day, yet on the other we turn away at people facing as extreme persecution as the Jews, right on our doorstep. What the actual f***? A sign in the camp read 'we must all learn to live together like brothers, or we will die together like idiots'. This needs to happen, and quick. Many people didn't want us to take their picture, scared of the negative media representation, but also in case their families face repercussions under repressive governments back home. They are also ashamed; ashamed to be living in such an undignified manner. We'll be going back next week to start filming, as sensitively as possible, with the aim of sharing the stories of these inspirational people. We're also stocking up on men's shoes, men's clothing, SIM cards, old phones (people are desperate to call home) and anything else people many be able to donate... If you would like to donate, here are the drop off points: Gap yah virtue signalling. Shoe-in for a Gruan job no doubt, if Daddy has the contacts. "world’s worst refugee camp"??? Two weeks in hospital in Sofia, yet didn't think to claim asylum there? Perhaps it slipped his mind? Indeed, asylum where it's genuinely needed (so why not in France, where they are), but a non-trivial number of those in the camp (which is, in terms of inward migration, a tiny number anyway) are economic migrants. Why caricature the author? Doesn't stop the camp from being a s***e place to be does it? As for the person in Sofia, I've already said the writer didn't push a couple of lines of interrogation.
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| chris123 hove actually 07 Aug 15 7.41am |
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Quote nickgusset at 06 Aug 2015 12.37pm
Lifted from Facebook, but pertinent to this thread. An hours drive from my house, then half an hour on the Eurotunnel, and we were in the world’s worst refugee camp in terms of resources and conditions, yet we were welcomed with open arms. It’s amazing how only the people who have nothing really know how to share. The ‘jungle’ (as the camp is known), is loosely and naturally divided by country, with every one of the worlds warzones represented. We walked through ‘Afghanistan’, ‘Syria,’ ‘Eritrea’ and ‘Sudan,’ all living peacefully alongside each other. This struck a chord with me – it was immediately clear that these people, fleeing war and persecution, want anything but conflict. The ‘mosque’ (a wooden frame), next to the church (some wood and tarpaulin, crowned with a wooden cross), right next to each other, representing that we are all the same, regardless of religion or race. Nothing could have prepared me for hearing the stories of these people first hand. A man from Afghanistan told me how he had fled his country with over 100 other people with the aim of walking together to England. Many people (mainly women and children) died along the way. They were so hungry they ate grass, and one night, walking through Bulgarian woodland in the dark, he tripped and a stick pierced through his eye. He spent 2 weeks in hospital in Sofia and the group left him behind. He carried on alone and had finally made it to Calais. Then we met three Eritrean brothers aged 14, 13 and 10. They were alone. Sent by their parents to escape conscription to compulsory, indefinite military service, which is basically slave labour, they had made their way from Eritrea on foot. And then, a 23-year-old from Dafur, Sudan. He told me that the Gangaweed had come to his village on horseback when he was 18, burnt it to the ground and brutally shot many people, including his dad, just for being black. He was arrested, accused of opposing the government, and put in prison for two years. As soon as he got out, he went back to where the village once was, desperate to find his two little brothers, little sister and mother. He was told his sister was alive and in a nearby town so he went looking for her. She wasn’t there. He searched towns and cities until he was again arrested, as travelling through the country is not permitted. Unable to face any more time in prison, he spent all the money he had to be smuggled to Libya. Here he started his journey, on foot and alone to England. England..where everybody is always smiling and no one has problems, he told me. “Is it this cold in England?”, he asked in the middle of a sunny day in August. His expectations, and the reality of his life if he ever does make it to England, make my heart hurt. He told me he doesn’t feel the hunger (the refugees get one free meal a day they have to queue for hours for), or the cold (I cant even begin to imagine winter in this camp), he just feels the pain of his lost family. Each time he spoke the word family, his voice broke and he put his head in his hands. Crying, he told me that every time he closes his eyes, he sees his mother, telling him he is a good boy, and that he is doing the right thing. ‘Why then, am I living like an animal?’ he asked me. Every night he walks a few miles to the tunnel in an attempt to make it to England, although he told me he was taking a couple of days break from trying to allow his leg to heal. He proceeded to show me a huge bruise on his calf from where he had been hit by a police baton. Many many people from Sudan tell the same story. Persecuted for being black, many have seen their entire family killed infront of their eyes. We sat for ages in the Sudanese part of the camp. The guys here searched the surroundings to find the most mis-match selection of chairs, and even made us tea over an open fire. ‘You are our guests’ they told us, infront of the opening to their makeshift tents. Yesterday I realised that the people in this camp don't WANT to come to England. They have no choice. These people aren't migrants...these are REFUGEES. They can't go back, but they can't go forward, they are stuck, trying to create some kind of normal life from a bit of tarpaulin and a blanket. And they are heroes. Their stories show more determination, strength and courage than anything I have ever heard from anyone in the UK. They should be an inspiration to us all...yet they are portrayed by our media as a drain on our society, scrounging our benefits. This couldn't be further from the truth. These people WANT to work, want to earn enough money to pay tax, and want to be given the opportunities they deserve. These people are desperate. On the one hand we commemorate holocaust Memorial Day, yet on the other we turn away at people facing as extreme persecution as the Jews, right on our doorstep. What the actual f***? A sign in the camp read 'we must all learn to live together like brothers, or we will die together like idiots'. This needs to happen, and quick. Many people didn't want us to take their picture, scared of the negative media representation, but also in case their families face repercussions under repressive governments back home. They are also ashamed; ashamed to be living in such an undignified manner. We'll be going back next week to start filming, as sensitively as possible, with the aim of sharing the stories of these inspirational people. We're also stocking up on men's shoes, men's clothing, SIM cards, old phones (people are desperate to call home) and anything else people many be able to donate... If you would like to donate, here are the drop off points:
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Aug 15 10.02am |
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What concerns me more about those on the 'Stop them all now' is the lack of sympathy for asylum seekers, and the willingness to immediately assume that they're out to rip the UK off, and aren't genuine or that its an acceptable loss to send 'them all back'. These are people who voluntarily left their home and country, and now live in makeshift shacks and camps in Calais. Similarly those drowning in the med, these are desperate and lost people.
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| johnfirewall 07 Aug 15 10.53am |
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Quote nickgusset at 06 Aug 2015 12.37pm
Lifted from Facebook, but pertinent to this thread. Bizarrely I hadn't even read your post when I posted that extract. I'd just seen it on Facebook myself.
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| chris123 hove actually 07 Aug 15 11.11am |
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Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Aug 2015 10.02am
What concerns me more about those on the 'Stop them all now' is the lack of sympathy for asylum seekers, and the willingness to immediately assume that they're out to rip the UK off, and aren't genuine or that its an acceptable loss to send 'them all back'. These are people who voluntarily left their home and country, and now live in makeshift shacks and camps in Calais. Similarly those drowning in the med, these are desperate and lost people.
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