This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.
Israel / Palestine
Register | Edit Profile | Subscriptions | Forum Rules | Log In
nickgusset  Shizzlehurst 24 Jul 14 11.04pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
Does supporting Hamas firing rockets count as anti semitism? I don't support any firing onto UN facilities but the situation here is unclear. Yet the usual suspects are fully in 'minds made up mode' and have their Hamas loving in top gear. This organisation rejected a cease firs a week ago. They apparently store arms at UN locations.....Apparently fire from them. Would Hamas engineer this by bringing the fight here for maximum publicity?.....It certainty gets their supporters foaming at the mouth. What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire.
Israel say they are targeting places where Hamas are hiding.
They hid at the Al-Aqsa hospital. They hid at the beach, where children played football. They hid at the yard of 75-year-old Muhammad Hamad. They hid among the residential quarters of Shujaya. They hid in the neighbourhoods of Zaytoun and Toffah. They hid in Rafah and Khan Younis. They hid in the home of the Qassan family. They hid in the home of the poet, Othman Hussein. They hid in the village of Khuzaa. They hid in the thousands of houses damaged or destroyed. They hid in 84 schools and 23 medical facilities. They hid in a cafe, where Gazans were watching the World Cup. They hid in the ambulances trying to retrieve the injured. They hid themselves in 24 corpses, buried under rubble. They hid themselves in a young woman in pink household slippers, sprawled on the pavement, taken down while fleeing. They hid themselves in two brothers, eight and four, lying in the intensive burn care unit in Al-Shifa. They hid themselves in the little boy whose parts were carried away by his father in a plastic shopping bag. They hid themselves in the “incomparable chaos of bodies” arriving at Gaza hospitals. They hid themselves in an elderly woman, lying in a pool of blood on a stone floor. Hamas, they tell us, is cowardly and cynical. An Israeli spokesman even had the temerity to tell Jon Snow on channel 4 news that Hamas were deliberately killing their own in order to blame Israel!
|
|
 Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
 Kermit8  Hevon 24 Jul 14 11.04pm |
  |
|---|---|
|
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
Does supporting Hamas firing rockets count as anti semitism? I don't support any firing onto UN facilities but the situation here is unclear. Yet the usual suspects are fully in 'minds made up mode' and have their Hamas loving in top gear. This organisation rejected a cease firs a week ago. They apparently store arms at UN locations.....Apparently fire from them. Would Hamas engineer this by bringing the fight here for maximum publicity?.....It certainty gets their supporters foaming at the mouth. What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire.
They want the blockade to be relaxed to sign the ceasefire. 80 per cent of Gazans are reliant on aid because of the blockade. Are Hamas being unreasonable with this request?
Big chest and massive boobs |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
 |
| Stirlingsays 24 Jul 14 11.05pm |
 |
|---|---|
|
Quote corkery at 24 Jul 2014 10.56pm
I wouldn't accept it either. Some man called David decided thousands of years ago that this was their Holy land, then they all hop in and take land that isn't theres. Killing civilians will only make the matter worse. What's the point of a paragraph like that? 'take land that isn't theres'....To an extent I agree with you...But that was 47....I guess you're anti immigration...Because that's how the state was enabled and ultimately happened.....They moved in and bought it up and then won it in war. It's 2014 not 1947......We can't wave a wand and magic the state away.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| legaleagle 24 Jul 14 11.12pm |
|
|---|---|
|
. Edited by legaleagle (24 Jul 2014 11.13pm)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 24 Jul 14 11.13pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Kermit8 at 24 Jul 2014 11.04pm
I can understand your distaste for Hamas but don't understand why you are letting the Israeli Government off the hook by generally blaming the former for the serious crimes of the latter. They want the blockade to be relaxed to sign the ceasefire. 80 per cent of Gazans are reliant on aid because of the blockade. Are Hamas being unreasonable with this request?
A ceasefire stops the conflict.....That brings a stop to the bloodshed......Sod adding conditions if you actually care about kids in buildings. Hamas by linking it to the blockage are implicitly recognizing that lots of their tunnel infrastructure has been damaged and hence they know that once a ceasefire stops they are going to be blamed for worsening the economic and dire situation even more by not accepting that initial Arab league chance. They played right into this right wing Israeli's government's hands and now they are probably engineering as many fire fights next to 'shelters' as they can.....They have no ethics at all like that....Though I also condemn any IDF action that deliberately targeted civilians. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Jul 2014 11.14pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| legaleagle 24 Jul 14 11.13pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
Does supporting Hamas firing rockets count as anti semitism? I don't support any firing onto UN facilities but the situation here is unclear. Yet the usual suspects are fully in 'minds made up mode' and have their Hamas loving in top gear. This organisation rejected a cease firs a week ago. They apparently store arms at UN locations.....Apparently fire from them. Would Hamas engineer this by bringing the fight here for maximum publicity?.....It certainty gets their supporters foaming at the mouth. What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire. No, it does not count as anti-Semitism ,Sterling. Neither does supporting the Palestinian "cause" or demonstrating against Israel. What does (even when not done consciously) is discrimination against Jewish people for being Jews or negative assertions about them for being Jews, or (in context) categorising all Jews as having certain characteristics. Europe has some nasty antecedents in the anti-semitism stakes which are a root cause of Israel's situation today and why Zionism arose/manifests itself in the way it does today. Some self-righteous people in Europe conveniently overlook this; it is a painful truth. Unfortunately, those historical but still alive anti-Semitic thought patterns in parts of Europe now mix with a degree of anti-semitism in some parts of some communities coming to Europe from elsewhere (ie N Africa),which I have personally experienced, and plenty of people failing to distinguish between "the Jews" and the regime in Israel when (understandably) being outraged when they see innocents being killed in Gaza. This is not helped by things like HAMAS' charter or the former Iranian president saying all "Zionists" were warned to stay away from the twin towers on 9/11 because the bombings were a Zionist plot. Morality is not divisible. I feel sick to the stomach if the sounds of calls for Jews to be gassed are resounding even today in Germany...and so should we all...it is very close to home. We should be alarmed...very alarmed with no excuses of "its only to be expected because of the Israelis" ,or "you have to understand..." It also taints the struggle of the Palestinian people for justice. Edited by legaleagle (25 Jul 2014 12.13am)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| Stirlingsays 24 Jul 14 11.21pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote legaleagle at 24 Jul 2014 11.13pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
Does supporting Hamas firing rockets count as anti semitism? I don't support any firing onto UN facilities but the situation here is unclear. Yet the usual suspects are fully in 'minds made up mode' and have their Hamas loving in top gear. This organisation rejected a cease firs a week ago. They apparently store arms at UN locations.....Apparently fire from them. Would Hamas engineer this by bringing the fight here for maximum publicity?.....It certainty gets their supporters foaming at the mouth. What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire. No, it does not count as anti-Semitism. So supporting the deliberate killing of Jewish civilians isn't anti Semitic?......Ok....God forbid they say something racist about Jews....Man that would be so much worse. I don't support Israel targeting civilians....I'm quite clear on that.....Yet it's ok to support Hamas targeting civilians? Comes across as rather fuzzy thinking to me. ps.....It's Stirling.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| legaleagle 24 Jul 14 11.24pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote nickgusset at 24 Jul 2014 11.04pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
Does supporting Hamas firing rockets count as anti semitism? I don't support any firing onto UN facilities but the situation here is unclear. Yet the usual suspects are fully in 'minds made up mode' and have their Hamas loving in top gear. This organisation rejected a cease firs a week ago. They apparently store arms at UN locations.....Apparently fire from them. Would Hamas engineer this by bringing the fight here for maximum publicity?.....It certainty gets their supporters foaming at the mouth. What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire.
Israel say they are targeting places where Hamas are hiding.
They hid at the Al-Aqsa hospital. They hid at the beach, where children played football. They hid at the yard of 75-year-old Muhammad Hamad. They hid among the residential quarters of Shujaya. They hid in the neighbourhoods of Zaytoun and Toffah. They hid in Rafah and Khan Younis. They hid in the home of the Qassan family. They hid in the home of the poet, Othman Hussein. They hid in the village of Khuzaa. They hid in the thousands of houses damaged or destroyed. They hid in 84 schools and 23 medical facilities. They hid in a cafe, where Gazans were watching the World Cup. They hid in the ambulances trying to retrieve the injured. They hid themselves in 24 corpses, buried under rubble. They hid themselves in a young woman in pink household slippers, sprawled on the pavement, taken down while fleeing. They hid themselves in two brothers, eight and four, lying in the intensive burn care unit in Al-Shifa. They hid themselves in the little boy whose parts were carried away by his father in a plastic shopping bag. They hid themselves in the “incomparable chaos of bodies” arriving at Gaza hospitals. They hid themselves in an elderly woman, lying in a pool of blood on a stone floor. Hamas, they tell us, is cowardly and cynical. An Israeli spokesman even had the temerity to tell Jon Snow on channel 4 news that Hamas were deliberately killing their own in order to blame Israel! Fair point. But, the morality of lies and spin is not divisible, nor is the moral corruption of the "political leadership" on both sides. HAMAS spokesman interviewed on Newsnight tonight said it was "lies" that 20 rockets found in a school. They were found by the UNRWA, which is very unhappy about it and which organisation I think few could accuse as being beloved of the Israeli government. What is happening cannot be defended, but don't think that doesn't mean some cynical people are not seeking maximum political and PR gain as the overriding objective, as opposed to absolute possible minimalisation of casualties, however "right" the cause and great the suffering of the innocents..
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| legaleagle 24 Jul 14 11.33pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote corkery at 24 Jul 2014 10.56pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire.
Edited by legaleagle (25 Jul 2014 12.10am)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| legaleagle 24 Jul 14 11.49pm |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 11.21pm
Quote legaleagle at 24 Jul 2014 11.13pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 10.50pm
Does supporting Hamas firing rockets count as anti semitism? I don't support any firing onto UN facilities but the situation here is unclear. Yet the usual suspects are fully in 'minds made up mode' and have their Hamas loving in top gear. This organisation rejected a cease firs a week ago. They apparently store arms at UN locations.....Apparently fire from them. Would Hamas engineer this by bringing the fight here for maximum publicity?.....It certainty gets their supporters foaming at the mouth. What happened here isn't clear.......But I do know the people continuing this fight are Hamas by rejecting an Arab league cease fire. No, it does not count as anti-Semitism. So supporting the deliberate killing of Jewish civilians isn't anti Semitic?......Ok....God forbid they say something racist about Jews....Man that would be so much worse. I don't support Israel targeting civilians....I'm quite clear on that.....Yet it's ok to support Hamas targeting civilians? Comes across as rather fuzzy thinking to me. ps.....It's Stirling. No, Stirling, your thinking is wrong. Killing Israeli civilians is a conflict situation in Israel/Palestine doesn't, hey presto, automatically per se equate to being anti-semitic. You may logically think it wrong and unjust and murder, as being a "war crime" in its indiscriminate targeting of civilian areas (that would depend on circumstances)but it is not, of itself, anti Semitism. You need to understand the actual difference between "Zionist" and "Jew", however much you may rightly say it is conveniently blurred and manipulated by some (including in HAMAS' charter). Don't fall into the same trap in reverse yourself. Edited by legaleagle (24 Jul 2014 11.49pm) Edited by legaleagle (25 Jul 2014 12.18am)
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
| legaleagle 25 Jul 14 12.04am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote nickgusset at 23 Jul 2014 4.09pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 23 Jul 2014 3.56pm
Quote nickgusset at 23 Jul 2014 3.51pm
Israeli mp...
So to use stirling's values, Hamas shouldn't stop firing missiles into Israel as long as Israeli mp's want to see Palestinians wiped out.
An individual nutter MP's (very attractive interestingly) point of view does not equate to Hamas's constitution does it. She does not represent the Israeli state......Hamas's constitution represents them.
|
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
corkery  Cork City 25 Jul 14 8.17am |
|
|---|---|
|
Quote Stirlingsays at 24 Jul 2014 11.05pm
Quote corkery at 24 Jul 2014 10.56pm
I wouldn't accept it either. Some man called David decided thousands of years ago that this was their Holy land, then they all hop in and take land that isn't theres. Killing civilians will only make the matter worse. What's the point of a paragraph like that? 'take land that isn't theres'....To an extent I agree with you...But that was 47....I guess you're anti immigration...Because that's how the state was enabled and ultimately happened.....They moved in and bought it up and then won it in war. It's 2014 not 1947......We can't wave a wand and magic the state away.
We'll never die |
|
| Alert a moderator to this post |
|
Login / RegisterNew users
Registration is now on our new message board
Existing users
To login with your existing username you will need to convert your account over to the new message board.
Sponsors
All images and text on this site are copyright © 1999-2024 The Holmesdale Online, unless otherwise stated.
Web Design by Guntrisoft Ltd.