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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Oct 17 5.24pm
Originally posted by Mapletree So I don't get my proof? I think maybe a few ancient Britons, Scots, Saxons etc. may disagree with your point about significance. The Potato Famine must have been a shock to the system in its time. By the way, at its peak the number of 'honour killings' in a year in the UK was 4. A minority of those would relate to people wanting to marry a non-Muslim, there are power freaks in every 'community' innit. I daresay the Krays killed more per year. I don't know about honor killings and I don't what you are getting at. Apart from very recent migrants, British ancestry is mostly ancient. Either post ice age European or later Germanic/Anglo Saxon. It's hard to distinguish some Europeans because they are so mixed. There are also mutations that have appeared since our ancestors moved to Britain and are therefore different to mainland Europeans. There wera a lot of Irish arriving in the 19th century but they are hard to distinguish from other so called 'Celtic' genes that arrived previously.
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Hrolf The Ganger

06 Oct 17 5.24pm

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Originally posted by Mapletree

So I don't get my proof?

I think maybe a few ancient Britons, Scots, Saxons etc. may disagree with your point about significance. The Potato Famine must have been a shock to the system in its time.

By the way, at its peak the number of 'honour killings' in a year in the UK was 4. A minority of those would relate to people wanting to marry a non-Muslim, there are power freaks in every 'community' innit. I daresay the Krays killed more per year.

I don't know about honor killings and I don't what you are getting at. Apart from very recent migrants, British ancestry is mostly ancient. Either post ice age European or later Germanic/Anglo Saxon. It's hard to distinguish some Europeans because they are so mixed.
There are also mutations that have appeared since our ancestors moved to Britain and are therefore different to mainland Europeans.
There wera a lot of Irish arriving in the 19th century but they are hard to distinguish from other so called 'Celtic' genes that arrived previously.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Oct 17 5.27pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I would suggest you look back through your own family tree but I just know it will be absolutely homogeneous. So I put you to proof, I don't have to. It was your assertion in the first place and it is you that seems absolutely fascinated by immigration as if it is some kind of new thing. Goodness knows how many of us have French or Viking ancestry if you go back far enough. Wondered when the ancient history card would be played - Vikings LOL, very relevant. It was not my assertion in the first place, it was Kermit's, saying that the majority of people born in England do not have four English-born grandparents and eight English-born great-grandparent. There does not seem to be statistics on this bit I doubt it to be the case. As for my own family tree, my four grandparents were born in, Holborn, a Cambridgeshire village, Woolwich and a West Surrey village, respectively. My eight great-grandparents were born in, Stepney, Limehouse, the former Cambridgeshire village, another Cambridgeshire village, Southampton, the former West Surrey village, the former West Surrey village, another West Surrey Village, respectively. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 06 Oct 17 5.27pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I would suggest you look back through your own family tree but I just know it will be absolutely homogeneous. So I put you to proof, I don't have to. It was your assertion in the first place and it is you that seems absolutely fascinated by immigration as if it is some kind of new thing. Goodness knows how many of us have French or Viking ancestry if you go back far enough.

Wondered when the ancient history card would be played - Vikings LOL, very relevant.
It was not my assertion in the first place, it was Kermit's, saying that the majority of people born in England do not have four English-born grandparents and eight English-born great-grandparent. There does not seem to be statistics on this bit I doubt it to be the case.
As for my own family tree, my four grandparents were born in, Holborn, a Cambridgeshire village, Woolwich and a West Surrey village, respectively.
My eight great-grandparents were born in, Stepney, Limehouse, the former Cambridgeshire village, another Cambridgeshire village, Southampton, the former West Surrey village, the former West Surrey village, another West Surrey Village, respectively.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Mapletree Croydon 06 Oct 17 6.35pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Wondered when the ancient history card would be played - Vikings LOL, very relevant. It was not my assertion in the first place, it was Kermit's, saying that the majority of people born in England do not have four English-born grandparents and eight English-born great-grandparent. There does not seem to be statistics on this bit I doubt it to be the case. As for my own family tree, my four grandparents were born in, Holborn, a Cambridgeshire village, Woolwich and a West Surrey village, respectively. My eight great-grandparents were born in, Stepney, Limehouse, the former Cambridgeshire village, another Cambridgeshire village, Southampton, the former West Surrey village, the former West Surrey village, another West Surrey Village, respectively. I knew I would be right After how long is history irrelevant? The Irish Potato Famine did indeed create a great deal of concern in England. A year after the potato blight first struck in Ireland, Irish immigration to England really took off. Hundreds of thousands of Irish were on the move, desperate for food, shelter and, if they could think that far ahead, a future free of the starvation and poverty that characterised life for the majority in Ireland. The largest numbers descended on Liverpool. In just five months of 1847, some 300,000 utterly destitute and starving Irish men, women and children arrived in the docks. This more than doubled the population of the town. I guess you could consider that to have been significant.
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Mapletree

Croydon 06 Oct 17 6.35pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I knew I would be right

After how long is history irrelevant? The Irish Potato Famine did indeed create a great deal of concern in England.

A year after the potato blight first struck in Ireland, Irish immigration to England really took off. Hundreds of thousands of Irish were on the move, desperate for food, shelter and, if they could think that far ahead, a future free of the starvation and poverty that characterised life for the majority in Ireland.

The largest numbers descended on Liverpool. In just five months of 1847, some 300,000 utterly destitute and starving Irish men, women and children arrived in the docks.

This more than doubled the population of the town.

I guess you could consider that to have been significant.

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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Oct 17 6.48pm
Originally posted by Mapletree I knew I would be right After how long is history irrelevant? The Irish Potato Famine did indeed create a great deal of concern in England. A year after the potato blight first struck in Ireland, Irish immigration to England really took off. Hundreds of thousands of Irish were on the move, desperate for food, shelter and, if they could think that far ahead, a future free of the starvation and poverty that characterised life for the majority in Ireland. The largest numbers descended on Liverpool. In just five months of 1847, some 300,000 utterly destitute and starving Irish men, women and children arrived in the docks. This more than doubled the population of the town. I guess you could consider that to have been significant. In this case, as we are discussing grandparents and great-grandparents, about 100 years I guess. Nothing you have said makes me believe that the majority of people born in England have grandparents or great-grandparents who were not. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 06 Oct 17 6.48pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

I knew I would be right

After how long is history irrelevant? The Irish Potato Famine did indeed create a great deal of concern in England.

The largest numbers descended on Liverpool. In just five months of 1847, some 300,000 utterly destitute and starving Irish men, women and children arrived in the docks.

This more than doubled the population of the town.

I guess you could consider that to have been significant.

In this case, as we are discussing grandparents and great-grandparents, about 100 years I guess. Nothing you have said makes me believe that the majority of people born in England have grandparents or great-grandparents who were not.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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leifandersonshair Newport 06 Oct 17 7.00pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 In this case, as we are discussing grandparents and great-grandparents, about 100 years I guess. Nothing you have said makes me believe that the majority of people born in England have grandparents or great-grandparents who were not. Not sure how it could be proven either way- don't think it's on the Census, for example. Speaking for myself, 1 Welsh grandparent, so I guess I'm not English then... just as well I moved to Wales this year, isn't it? Regardless, does it matter? Where is the line drawn- 2 generations back? 3? 4?
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leifandersonshair

Newport 06 Oct 17 7.00pm

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Originally posted by hedgehog50

Not sure how it could be proven either way- don't think it's on the Census, for example.

Speaking for myself, 1 Welsh grandparent, so I guess I'm not English then... just as well I moved to Wales this year, isn't it?

Regardless, does it matter? Where is the line drawn- 2 generations back? 3? 4?

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Oct 17 7.03pm
Originally posted by leifandersonshair Not sure how it could be proven either way- don't think it's on the Census, for example. Speaking for myself, 1 Welsh grandparent, so I guess I'm not English then... just as well I moved to Wales this year, isn't it? Regardless, does it matter? Where is the line drawn- 2 generations back? 3? 4? Blimey, yer adapting quickly.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Oct 17 7.03pm

Originally posted by leifandersonshair

Not sure how it could be proven either way- don't think it's on the Census, for example.

Speaking for myself, 1 Welsh grandparent, so I guess I'm not English then... just as well I moved to Wales this year, isn't it?

Regardless, does it matter? Where is the line drawn- 2 generations back? 3? 4?

Blimey, yer adapting quickly.

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Mapletree Croydon 06 Oct 17 7.12pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I don't know about honor killings and I don't what you are getting at. Apart from very recent migrants, British ancestry is mostly ancient. Either post ice age European or later Germanic/Anglo Saxon. It's hard to distinguish some Europeans because they are so mixed. There are also mutations that have appeared since our ancestors moved to Britain and are therefore different to mainland Europeans. There wera a lot of Irish arriving in the 19th century but they are hard to distinguish from other so called 'Celtic' genes that arrived previously. The point about honour killings was made by your twin, I was merely pointing out the hyperbole. You seem to say Irish people aren't proper immigrants because they look like some of the rest of us. Interesting view point. One of the points made earlier was about 'significance', it is only recently we have had significant immigration. Clearly that is wrong, it is cyclical. It isn't even correct for the 20th century and neither is it correct for the 19th century. Yet somehow we seem to be fed the line that we have just entered the dark ages whereas 30 years ago all was sweetness and light because we didn't have this dreadful, disruptive immigration I suggest swap the word Muslim for Catholic or Jew and you can find many historic parallels.
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Mapletree

Croydon 06 Oct 17 7.12pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The point about honour killings was made by your twin, I was merely pointing out the hyperbole. You seem to say Irish people aren't proper immigrants because they look like some of the rest of us. Interesting view point.

One of the points made earlier was about 'significance', it is only recently we have had significant immigration. Clearly that is wrong, it is cyclical. It isn't even correct for the 20th century and neither is it correct for the 19th century. Yet somehow we seem to be fed the line that we have just entered the dark ages whereas 30 years ago all was sweetness and light because we didn't have this dreadful, disruptive immigration

I suggest swap the word Muslim for Catholic or Jew and you can find many historic parallels.

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Stirlingsays 06 Oct 17 7.18pm
For me, what's important is where a person's allegiance is. I'm secular English/British/European/Western/Human. Skin colour matters to some people and that's fine for them....black and proud, white and whatever. But I'm more interested in the cultural allegiances of someone. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Oct 17 7.18pm

For me, what's important is where a person's allegiance is.

I'm secular English/British/European/Western/Human.

Skin colour matters to some people and that's fine for them....black and proud, white and whatever. But I'm more interested in the cultural allegiances of someone.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Oct 17 7.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays For me, what's important is where a person's allegiance is. I'm secular English/British/European/Western/Human. Skin colour matters to some people and that's fine for them....black and proud, white and whatever. But I'm more interested in the cultural allegiances of someone. Human is last in your list?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 06 Oct 17 7.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

For me, what's important is where a person's allegiance is.

I'm secular English/British/European/Western/Human.

Skin colour matters to some people and that's fine for them....black and proud, white and whatever. But I'm more interested in the cultural allegiances of someone.

Human is last in your list?

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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Oct 17 7.47pm
Originally posted by Mapletree The point about honour killings was made by your twin, I was merely pointing out the hyperbole. You seem to say Irish people aren't proper immigrants because they look like some of the rest of us. Interesting view point. One of the points made earlier was about 'significance', it is only recently we have had significant immigration. Clearly that is wrong, it is cyclical. It isn't even correct for the 20th century and neither is it correct for the 19th century. Yet somehow we seem to be fed the line that we have just entered the dark ages whereas 30 years ago all was sweetness and light because we didn't have this dreadful, disruptive immigration I suggest swap the word Muslim for Catholic or Jew and you can find many historic parallels. Wrong again - like most of your 'twins'. From the excellent Immigration Watch: "A study of official census records from 1851 until the present shows that the number of people born abroad living in Britain was very small until the middle of the twentieth century and that the growth of this population between censuses was quite slow. Indeed, in the eighty years between 1851 and 1931, the population born abroad increased by only about one million. It increased slowly after the Second World War, growing by less than two million in the forty years between 1951 and 1991. In the late 1990s the pace and scale of migration increased to a level without historical precedent. Indeed the foreign born population of England and Wales more than doubled, increasing by nearly four million in the twenty years between the 1991 and 2011 censuses. It has now reached 13.4% of our population. This massive increase dwarfs the scale of any previous inflow in our history." We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 06 Oct 17 7.47pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

One of the points made earlier was about 'significance', it is only recently we have had significant immigration. Clearly that is wrong, it is cyclical. It isn't even correct for the 20th century and neither is it correct for the 19th century. Yet somehow we seem to be fed the line that we have just entered the dark ages whereas 30 years ago all was sweetness and light because we didn't have this dreadful, disruptive immigration

I suggest swap the word Muslim for Catholic or Jew and you can find many historic parallels.

Wrong again - like most of your 'twins'. From the excellent Immigration Watch:
"A study of official census records from 1851 until the present shows that the number of people born abroad living in Britain was very small until the middle of the twentieth century and that the growth of this population between censuses was quite slow. Indeed, in the eighty years between 1851 and 1931, the population born abroad increased by only about one million. It increased slowly after the Second World War, growing by less than two million in the forty years between 1951 and 1991. In the late 1990s the pace and scale of migration increased to a level without historical precedent. Indeed the foreign born population of England and Wales more than doubled, increasing by nearly four million in the twenty years between the 1991 and 2011 censuses. It has now reached 13.4% of our population. This massive increase dwarfs the scale of any previous inflow in our history."

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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Kermit8 Hevon 06 Oct 17 7.51pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays For me, what's important is where a person's allegiance is. I'm secular English/British/European/Western/Human. Skin colour matters to some people and that's fine for them....black and proud, white and whatever. But I'm more interested in the cultural allegiances of someone. You're part Irish and I'm half-Scottish. We engage. Add fully English Hedgie to the convo then it proves multi-culturalism can work. I'd like to buy the world a coke.... Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 06 Oct 17 7.51pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

For me, what's important is where a person's allegiance is.

I'm secular English/British/European/Western/Human.

Skin colour matters to some people and that's fine for them....black and proud, white and whatever. But I'm more interested in the cultural allegiances of someone.

You're part Irish and I'm half-Scottish. We engage. Add fully English Hedgie to the convo then it proves multi-culturalism can work.

I'd like to buy the world a coke....

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 06 Oct 17 8.03pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 You're part Irish and I'm half-Scottish. We engage. Add fully English Hedgie to the convo then it proves multi-culturalism can work. I'd like to buy the world a coke.... I'm not part Northern Irish. My father's nationality isn't mine it is his. I'm English, born and raised. Multiculturalism? English and Northern Irish? I guess the word 'unionist' doesn't really resonate with you. You're just on a weak wind up.....you're the one with this half that half stuff. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2017 2.27pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

06 Oct 17 8.03pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

You're part Irish and I'm half-Scottish. We engage. Add fully English Hedgie to the convo then it proves multi-culturalism can work.

I'd like to buy the world a coke....

I'm not part Northern Irish. My father's nationality isn't mine it is his.

I'm English, born and raised.

Multiculturalism? English and Northern Irish? I guess the word 'unionist' doesn't really resonate with you.

You're just on a weak wind up.....you're the one with this half that half stuff.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2017 2.27pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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