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npn Crowborough 14 Nov 13 5.33pm
Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 5.19pm Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 4.43pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 2.28pm Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 2.06pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.47pm Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 1.24pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.01pm I accept that mine is a massive generalisation (with regard to prem supporters). Funnily enough I was born in Battersea and large portions of my family are Chelsea, and I can chat football to them knowing their history. My issue is one of first impressions. I'm sure you'll agree that if you're in a pub and meet a Liverpool, Man Utd, and, yes, Chelsea fan, your first impression is "probably an armchair fan, let's keep the conversation off football". Obvioulsy there are many thousands of fans of those clubs who go every week, and have a broad football knowledge, but there's also hundreds of thousands who are just along for the glory ride. I actually feel sorry for a Citeh fan at work - proper Manc born and bred, down here for work, season ticket holder for years (travelling up from London), and now he's lumped in with the glory hunters. The away experience is lessened, in my mind at least, by sheer numbers, logistics, and the 'football tourists' you get at the big clubs. When you travel in numbers you tend to have pubs allocated etc, much more 'home only' pubs, and, as much as I love my fellow Palace fans like a family (albeit a dysfunctional one) I can drink with them at home - I'd rather drink in a pub mingling with the locals where me and a couple of mates are the only Palace fans in the village (obviously the welcome varies depending on where you go, but I've always found if you go in with a non-aggressive friendly attitude, you're usually welcomed). I, too, don't miss the violence, but much of the soul has gone out of the game at the highest level, I hope you'll agree. I agree with a lot of what you have said. I think the issue for the 'big' clubs of growth is a difficult one. I do agree that at Chelsea now we have a wider spectrum of fan. I was recently informed that our world wide fan base has grown from 30 million to 300 million in three years, hence all the preseason asia tours. We had 10 000 watch our training in the USA last year. So as a club we are expanding from a local business to a world wide business and I would agree that that comes with a cost. Of course, many of these new fans cant understand or appreciate our history (and yes, we do have one LOL) but the nature of football at the top is that you have to grow into a world wide organisation or you stagnate and watch the others over take you. Personally I think this is a good thing as long as the club doesnt lose its heart and soul from West London and to be honest it really hasnt. The impression is that it has but the vast majority of fans who go week in week out are the 'locals'. Football, and particularly, english football has an increasing global appeal and I cant help but think that is a positive thing for the game. I do worry about young players here but, putting aside the compensation issue, the EPPP is a great step forward in this area. Chelsea are producing some outstanding young players, who und=fortunately are more likely to play for other teams. I do hope this changes though. I'll ignore that you are from Battersea but support Palace LOL The three highlighted bits: 1. I've supported Palace my whole life, and despite our complete lack of success (except the ZDS) in all those years, I'd honestly rather 'stagnate' than swap it to become a global brand. Wherever I go in the world I bump into Palace fans, only one or two, and they're pretty much always from Croydon - we have a bond, shared experiences, not just claiming to support the same football team when they're on telly 2. Don't get me started on EPPP. EPPP is just another example of the premier league trying to cut themselves an even bigger piece of the pie, with scant regard for what it does further down the tree or even for the national game (will the likes of Crewe, famed for some excellent young talent coming through their academy in the past, have any chance of keeping decent young players? Probably not, and the majority will disappear to 'big' clubs and be swallowed up never to be seen again) 3. Born in Battersea - moved to Croydon when I was one year old (and with my old man being from Kings Cross and a Spurs fan, the only way I was going to be able to watch live football at the age of 11 was to go to my local club on my own or with a mate - hence Palace is/was my local team - first time I've been accused of glory hunting by spurning Chelsea for Palace ) 1. I understand this BUT I can honestly say my greatest moments at a football ground have not been scunthorpe away. I love football and love my club. I love the passion, the commaraderie, the ups and downs. The champions league was like a soap opera for us but I can assure nothing will ever beat our night in Munich. It wasn't just about winning it was compensation for all the hurt. Whether you are a local club or world wide brand the excitement and devotion to your team isnt really any different and I love seeing Chelsea shirts all over the world. Those people may have a slight affinity but if football touches there hearts in that way great! 2. There's a danger this becomes EPPP conversation but the EPPP is a very good thing. Crewe?? what world class players they developed?? David Platt?? The issue of youth development in this country is that basically for decades we have been pretty awful. The law of averages says every club will produce players for the professional game and YES some clubs have been more successful then others. However, how many WORLD CLASS players are we producing considering the amount who enter our system?? Very few. The EPPP actually forces clubs to invest heavily in player development. I think its a great thing. The most talented mathematician should be schooled at the best maths school. The most talented musicians similarly at the best music schools. The best footballers should get the best schooling at the best academies which are assessed against a variety of criteria, including player advancement. 3. BORN IN BATTERSEA!! LOL Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.50pm) Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.51pm) Re: Crewe - I never said World class, but from memory: David Platt, Geoff Thomas, Danny Murphy, Robbie Savage, Neil Lennon (I think), Dean Ashton - undoubtedly there will be more, and apologies if any of those are mis-remembered. They're also the only pro club I know to have done this: [Link] Born in Battersea, dragged up in Croydon. I couldn't even walk when I left Battersea - I have no affinity with the area aside from much of my family hailing from there - I see my choice to follow my local club in preference to a much larger one my mothers' family followed as a badge of honour, and certainly not something to be ashamed of. If my kids choose to follow Crowborough Athletic rather than Palace because they are their local team, I'll actually be proud of them for that (although I've been to watch them play and they are truly dreadful) Only joking about Battersea thing!! Sorry I dont have his 'look how good crewe are'. Not one of those players are world class. The point about youth development in this country is that we dont, and have not with any form of consistency, developed technically and tactically gifted world class players. Hence the England team lacks in those areas outside of maybe 4 or 5. Great English players come through despite our system and not because of it. Youth development in this country is playing catch-up with the rest of the world, partly due to our football culture here and the FA being backward. Nearly every top team BUYS its creative players from abroad because we dont tend to produce them. We focus far too much on passing and team work at a young age and less on creativity. What the 'passers' in this county forget is that Barcelona pass the ball quickly until they can get it to Iniesta, Messi or Neymar. Its about time we invested time and energy in to our youth system but let the top clubs and premier league do it because the FA have been found wanting for 150 years!!! Forget Greg Dykes useless commission.Roll on the EPPP!! Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 2.29pm) But surely that's the point. A club the size of Crewe has consistently produced international footballers (again, I never said or implied world class), and brought through sufficient numbers of kids to be able to field a side of completely home-produced talent. The fact that 'top teams' bring these players in from abroad is surely part of the problem. Take Wilf Zaha - he comes through the Palace ranks and, partially at least because we don't have the resources to simply buy in foreign talent, he gets a run in the first team early and develops as a player because of it. Then a 'top team' pick him up, where he warms the bench. He won't end up a better player from being at a 'top team', he'll end up a worse one, with shot confidence. Or John Bostock - in the Palace first team at the age of 15, scouted by Barcelona (allegedly), one of the most exciting prospects in the country (arguably), poached by Spurs because he was too young to sign a pro contract at Palace, and that was the end of his career. If you think those, and examples like them, are a good thing for the game, then I respectfully suggest you're blinkered into seeing the benefit to the 'top teams' of being able to cherrypick talent produced by others for a derisory sum on a whim (and then discard them if/when they don't fit) over and above any benefit to the game at a national or international level. Certainly if I were running a club and we had a massively talented young prospect, I'd be doing my utmost to keep him out of the public eye for fear of him being pinched - certainly nobody under 16 would ever be promoted to the first team squad - you'd be mad to! In fact, arguably, the whole point of teams outside the top having an academy at all is diminished (now that they know they have to make their talent available to 'top teams' for peanuts). What this basically means is: 1. take a kid on 2. teach him, coach him, turn him into a decent player 3. if you turn him into a player who's good, he's gone in return for a Mars bar and a hearty handshake 4. if he turns out to not be as good as you thought he might be, you can keep him (but probably don't want him) 5. find new kid and repeat from point 1 Brilliant for the 'top teams' but a death knell for academies in the lower leagues in this country. I can't actually remember what status our academy has currently, but I know it's high (either top tier or second tier) so EPPP may well be good for Palace, but it's certainly not good for the game. They got it through by blackmail - threatening to withdraw part of the money the premier league gives to the rest of the league if it wasn't passed. Of course for all those clubs who have let their academies go already or have such dire ones they don't produce any decent players, it was an absolute no brainer to take the cash over the massively unlikely prospect of ever being able to sell a Zaha, Ashton, Walcott, etc. but for the clubs who have consistently produced talent, it's a kick in the teeth The point is the top teams tend to bring in foreign talent because we dont produce world class talent anywhere near enough in this country. I appreciate you never said Crewe players were world class but again thats my point. We congratulate academies who produce mediocre players. The top teams want the top players. They want to be world class and compete with Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern etc. The English/British talent has just not been produced due to poor coaching and a even worse a poor philosophy/culture. In terms of players leaving one club and going to a 'bigger' club there are also plenty of examples of where players have progressed and done well. Walcott at Arsenal you could say? Also Jack Wilshere was a luton as a kid before Arsenal took him. Also the whole point about youth development in ANY sphere is that they should train at the best training centres. The EPPP is an objective assessment of how good each academy is, thus Cat 1 clubs have the Best training centres for youth development. In terms of being 'blinkered', the truth is that very few players will make it into our first team but they will make it in to other peoples first team. When a player is released by Chelsea, Man Utd or the likes they are 'snapped up' by so-called smaller clubs who will then benefit from these players. Smaller clubs will be getting VERY good players from us. In fact, you are far more likely to have a youth player from Chelsea in your team then we are likely to have from you (yes I know about Victor Moses), but the point is still relevant. I have less problem with the movement of youth players than the derisory mandated sum for them (apologies if this is incorrect but I've had enough of work and on my way out the door so can't be @rsed to look it up) I remeber it being in the 120K region? That's f**k all in return for possibly 7 years or more of investment by the feeder club in the player. Also keep in mind that for every Zaha or Bostock there's probably 50 players who don't make it. So you spend a fortune on players, most don't make it, and the few who do are taken from you by clubs with far more financial resources than you for next to nothing - kind of makes the academy slightly untenable wouldn't you agree? Anyroad, I'm going home!
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npn

Crowborough 14 Nov 13 5.33pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 5.19pm

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 4.43pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 2.28pm

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 2.06pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.47pm

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 1.24pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.01pm

I accept that mine is a massive generalisation (with regard to prem supporters).
Funnily enough I was born in Battersea and large portions of my family are Chelsea, and I can chat football to them knowing their history. My issue is one of first impressions. I'm sure you'll agree that if you're in a pub and meet a Liverpool, Man Utd, and, yes, Chelsea fan, your first impression is "probably an armchair fan, let's keep the conversation off football". Obvioulsy there are many thousands of fans of those clubs who go every week, and have a broad football knowledge, but there's also hundreds of thousands who are just along for the glory ride. I actually feel sorry for a Citeh fan at work - proper Manc born and bred, down here for work, season ticket holder for years (travelling up from London), and now he's lumped in with the glory hunters.

The away experience is lessened, in my mind at least, by sheer numbers, logistics, and the 'football tourists' you get at the big clubs. When you travel in numbers you tend to have pubs allocated etc, much more 'home only' pubs, and, as much as I love my fellow Palace fans like a family (albeit a dysfunctional one) I can drink with them at home - I'd rather drink in a pub mingling with the locals where me and a couple of mates are the only Palace fans in the village (obviously the welcome varies depending on where you go, but I've always found if you go in with a non-aggressive friendly attitude, you're usually welcomed).

I, too, don't miss the violence, but much of the soul has gone out of the game at the highest level, I hope you'll agree.

I agree with a lot of what you have said. I think the issue for the 'big' clubs of growth is a difficult one. I do agree that at Chelsea now we have a wider spectrum of fan. I was recently informed that our world wide fan base has grown from 30 million to 300 million in three years, hence all the preseason asia tours. We had 10 000 watch our training in the USA last year. So as a club we are expanding from a local business to a world wide business and I would agree that that comes with a cost. Of course, many of these new fans cant understand or appreciate our history (and yes, we do have one LOL) but the nature of football at the top is that you have to grow into a world wide organisation or you stagnate and watch the others over take you.
Personally I think this is a good thing as long as the club doesnt lose its heart and soul from West London and to be honest it really hasnt. The impression is that it has but the vast majority of fans who go week in week out are the 'locals'.
Football, and particularly, english football has an increasing global appeal and I cant help but think that is a positive thing for the game. I do worry about young players here but, putting aside the compensation issue, the EPPP is a great step forward in this area. Chelsea are producing some outstanding young players, who und=fortunately are more likely to play for other teams. I do hope this changes though.

I'll ignore that you are from Battersea but support Palace LOL

The three highlighted bits:
1. I've supported Palace my whole life, and despite our complete lack of success (except the ZDS) in all those years, I'd honestly rather 'stagnate' than swap it to become a global brand. Wherever I go in the world I bump into Palace fans, only one or two, and they're pretty much always from Croydon - we have a bond, shared experiences, not just claiming to support the same football team when they're on telly

2. Don't get me started on EPPP. EPPP is just another example of the premier league trying to cut themselves an even bigger piece of the pie, with scant regard for what it does further down the tree or even for the national game (will the likes of Crewe, famed for some excellent young talent coming through their academy in the past, have any chance of keeping decent young players? Probably not, and the majority will disappear to 'big' clubs and be swallowed up never to be seen again)

3. Born in Battersea - moved to Croydon when I was one year old (and with my old man being from Kings Cross and a Spurs fan, the only way I was going to be able to watch live football at the age of 11 was to go to my local club on my own or with a mate - hence Palace is/was my local team - first time I've been accused of glory hunting by spurning Chelsea for Palace )

1. I understand this BUT I can honestly say my greatest moments at a football ground have not been scunthorpe away. I love football and love my club. I love the passion, the commaraderie, the ups and downs. The champions league was like a soap opera for us but I can assure nothing will ever beat our night in Munich. It wasn't just about winning it was compensation for all the hurt.
Whether you are a local club or world wide brand the excitement and devotion to your team isnt really any different and I love seeing Chelsea shirts all over the world. Those people may have a slight affinity but if football touches there hearts in that way great!
2. There's a danger this becomes EPPP conversation but the EPPP is a very good thing. Crewe?? what world class players they developed?? David Platt?? The issue of youth development in this country is that basically for decades we have been pretty awful. The law of averages says every club will produce players for the professional game and YES some clubs have been more successful then others. However, how many WORLD CLASS players are we producing considering the amount who enter our system?? Very few.
The EPPP actually forces clubs to invest heavily in player development. I think its a great thing. The most talented mathematician should be schooled at the best maths school. The most talented musicians similarly at the best music schools. The best footballers should get the best schooling at the best academies which are assessed against a variety of criteria, including player advancement.
3. BORN IN BATTERSEA!! LOL

Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.50pm)

Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.51pm)

Re: Crewe - I never said World class, but from memory: David Platt, Geoff Thomas, Danny Murphy, Robbie Savage, Neil Lennon (I think), Dean Ashton - undoubtedly there will be more, and apologies if any of those are mis-remembered. They're also the only pro club I know to have done this:
[Link]

Born in Battersea, dragged up in Croydon. I couldn't even walk when I left Battersea - I have no affinity with the area aside from much of my family hailing from there - I see my choice to follow my local club in preference to a much larger one my mothers' family followed as a badge of honour, and certainly not something to be ashamed of. If my kids choose to follow Crowborough Athletic rather than Palace because they are their local team, I'll actually be proud of them for that (although I've been to watch them play and they are truly dreadful)

Only joking about Battersea thing!!

Sorry I dont have his 'look how good crewe are'. Not one of those players are world class. The point about youth development in this country is that we dont, and have not with any form of consistency, developed technically and tactically gifted world class players. Hence the England team lacks in those areas outside of maybe 4 or 5. Great English players come through despite our system and not because of it.
Youth development in this country is playing catch-up with the rest of the world, partly due to our football culture here and the FA being backward. Nearly every top team BUYS its creative players from abroad because we dont tend to produce them. We focus far too much on passing and team work at a young age and less on creativity. What the 'passers' in this county forget is that Barcelona pass the ball quickly until they can get it to Iniesta, Messi or Neymar.
Its about time we invested time and energy in to our youth system but let the top clubs and premier league do it because the FA have been found wanting for 150 years!!! Forget Greg Dykes useless commission.Roll on the EPPP!!

Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 2.29pm)

But surely that's the point.
A club the size of Crewe has consistently produced international footballers (again, I never said or implied world class), and brought through sufficient numbers of kids to be able to field a side of completely home-produced talent.

The fact that 'top teams' bring these players in from abroad is surely part of the problem. Take Wilf Zaha - he comes through the Palace ranks and, partially at least because we don't have the resources to simply buy in foreign talent, he gets a run in the first team early and develops as a player because of it. Then a 'top team' pick him up, where he warms the bench. He won't end up a better player from being at a 'top team', he'll end up a worse one, with shot confidence. Or John Bostock - in the Palace first team at the age of 15, scouted by Barcelona (allegedly), one of the most exciting prospects in the country (arguably), poached by Spurs because he was too young to sign a pro contract at Palace, and that was the end of his career. If you think those, and examples like them, are a good thing for the game, then I respectfully suggest you're blinkered into seeing the benefit to the 'top teams' of being able to cherrypick talent produced by others for a derisory sum on a whim (and then discard them if/when they don't fit) over and above any benefit to the game at a national or international level.

Certainly if I were running a club and we had a massively talented young prospect, I'd be doing my utmost to keep him out of the public eye for fear of him being pinched - certainly nobody under 16 would ever be promoted to the first team squad - you'd be mad to! In fact, arguably, the whole point of teams outside the top having an academy at all is diminished (now that they know they have to make their talent available to 'top teams' for peanuts). What this basically means is:
1. take a kid on
2. teach him, coach him, turn him into a decent player
3. if you turn him into a player who's good, he's gone in return for a Mars bar and a hearty handshake
4. if he turns out to not be as good as you thought he might be, you can keep him (but probably don't want him)
5. find new kid and repeat from point 1

Brilliant for the 'top teams' but a death knell for academies in the lower leagues in this country.

I can't actually remember what status our academy has currently, but I know it's high (either top tier or second tier) so EPPP may well be good for Palace, but it's certainly not good for the game. They got it through by blackmail - threatening to withdraw part of the money the premier league gives to the rest of the league if it wasn't passed. Of course for all those clubs who have let their academies go already or have such dire ones they don't produce any decent players, it was an absolute no brainer to take the cash over the massively unlikely prospect of ever being able to sell a Zaha, Ashton, Walcott, etc. but for the clubs who have consistently produced talent, it's a kick in the teeth

The point is the top teams tend to bring in foreign talent because we dont produce world class talent anywhere near enough in this country. I appreciate you never said Crewe players were world class but again thats my point. We congratulate academies who produce mediocre players. The top teams want the top players. They want to be world class and compete with Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern etc. The English/British talent has just not been produced due to poor coaching and a even worse a poor philosophy/culture.
In terms of players leaving one club and going to a 'bigger' club there are also plenty of examples of where players have progressed and done well. Walcott at Arsenal you could say? Also Jack Wilshere was a luton as a kid before Arsenal took him.
Also the whole point about youth development in ANY sphere is that they should train at the best training centres. The EPPP is an objective assessment of how good each academy is, thus Cat 1 clubs have the Best training centres for youth development.
In terms of being 'blinkered', the truth is that very few players will make it into our first team but they will make it in to other peoples first team. When a player is released by Chelsea, Man Utd or the likes they are 'snapped up' by so-called smaller clubs who will then benefit from these players. Smaller clubs will be getting VERY good players from us. In fact, you are far more likely to have a youth player from Chelsea in your team then we are likely to have from you (yes I know about Victor Moses), but the point is still relevant.

I have less problem with the movement of youth players than the derisory mandated sum for them (apologies if this is incorrect but I've had enough of work and on my way out the door so can't be @rsed to look it up) I remeber it being in the 120K region? That's f**k all in return for possibly 7 years or more of investment by the feeder club in the player. Also keep in mind that for every Zaha or Bostock there's probably 50 players who don't make it. So you spend a fortune on players, most don't make it, and the few who do are taken from you by clubs with far more financial resources than you for next to nothing - kind of makes the academy slightly untenable wouldn't you agree?

Anyroad, I'm going home!

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oohahh Caterham 14 Nov 13 5.49pm
Quote oohahh at 12 Nov 2013 10.21pm Chelsea have the biggest squad of juniors in the world How many will make it to your under 16's or under 18's? And how many will make it to the first team? In fact how many of your first team are from your own academy? This could reach 1000 LOL Ok, firstly the above quote. Actually they dont. You just ASSUME they do and no nothing about Chesea's youth system. You make the mistake that a few have made in repsonses. YOU ASSUME and state an opinion as if it is fact. Its not. The fact is that the vast majority of U16's and U18's are English. We recently offered ten 14 year olds (English) scholarships at the club. An anwswer to my own question in this report Terry was the last player to graduate from your £100 million academy [Link]
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oohahh

Caterham 14 Nov 13 5.49pm

Quote oohahh at 12 Nov 2013 10.21pm

Chelsea have the biggest squad of juniors in the world How many will make it to your under 16's or under 18's? And how many will make it to the first team? In fact how many of your first team are from your own academy?

This could reach 1000 LOL

Ok, firstly the above quote. Actually they dont. You just ASSUME they do and no nothing about Chesea's youth system. You make the mistake that a few have made in repsonses. YOU ASSUME and state an opinion as if it is fact. Its not. The fact is that the vast majority of U16's and U18's are English. We recently offered ten 14 year olds (English) scholarships at the club.

An anwswer to my own question in this report Terry was the last player to graduate from your £100 million academy

[Link]

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chelski london 15 Nov 13 11.46am
Quote goodersgold at 14 Nov 2013 5.20pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 5.02pm Quote goodersgold at 14 Nov 2013 4.51pm In other words greed is good according to Chelsea fc money is everything and a sugar daddy is the way forward. Whoopee f*ing do. Start to have a reasonable conversation and then school finishes and the children arrive!! Your such a sad boring individual. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz You still bleating your Chelsea s*e on here? I tell you what I'll spend my time writing essay after essay on a Crystal Palace FC forumTime must just fly by being around you........zzzzzzzz Edited by goodersgold (14 Nov 2013 5.22pm) Reading your illiterate and brainless posts I would suggest that you are clearly incapable of this. Stick to colouring!!
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chelski

london 15 Nov 13 11.46am

Quote goodersgold at 14 Nov 2013 5.20pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 5.02pm

Quote goodersgold at 14 Nov 2013 4.51pm

In other words greed is good according to Chelsea fc money is everything and a sugar daddy is the way forward.
Whoopee f***ing do.

Start to have a reasonable conversation and then school finishes and the children arrive!!

Your such a sad boring individual.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
You still bleating your Chelsea s***e on here?
I tell you what I'll spend my time writing essay after essay on a Crystal Palace FC forumTime must just fly by being around you........zzzzzzzz

Edited by goodersgold (14 Nov 2013 5.22pm)

Reading your illiterate and brainless posts I would suggest that you are clearly incapable of this. Stick to colouring!!

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chelski london 15 Nov 13 11.54am
Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 5.33pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 5.19pm Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 4.43pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 2.28pm Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 2.06pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.47pm Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 1.24pm Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.01pm I accept that mine is a massive generalisation (with regard to prem supporters). Funnily enough I was born in Battersea and large portions of my family are Chelsea, and I can chat football to them knowing their history. My issue is one of first impressions. I'm sure you'll agree that if you're in a pub and meet a Liverpool, Man Utd, and, yes, Chelsea fan, your first impression is "probably an armchair fan, let's keep the conversation off football". Obvioulsy there are many thousands of fans of those clubs who go every week, and have a broad football knowledge, but there's also hundreds of thousands who are just along for the glory ride. I actually feel sorry for a Citeh fan at work - proper Manc born and bred, down here for work, season ticket holder for years (travelling up from London), and now he's lumped in with the glory hunters. The away experience is lessened, in my mind at least, by sheer numbers, logistics, and the 'football tourists' you get at the big clubs. When you travel in numbers you tend to have pubs allocated etc, much more 'home only' pubs, and, as much as I love my fellow Palace fans like a family (albeit a dysfunctional one) I can drink with them at home - I'd rather drink in a pub mingling with the locals where me and a couple of mates are the only Palace fans in the village (obviously the welcome varies depending on where you go, but I've always found if you go in with a non-aggressive friendly attitude, you're usually welcomed). I, too, don't miss the violence, but much of the soul has gone out of the game at the highest level, I hope you'll agree. I agree with a lot of what you have said. I think the issue for the 'big' clubs of growth is a difficult one. I do agree that at Chelsea now we have a wider spectrum of fan. I was recently informed that our world wide fan base has grown from 30 million to 300 million in three years, hence all the preseason asia tours. We had 10 000 watch our training in the USA last year. So as a club we are expanding from a local business to a world wide business and I would agree that that comes with a cost. Of course, many of these new fans cant understand or appreciate our history (and yes, we do have one LOL) but the nature of football at the top is that you have to grow into a world wide organisation or you stagnate and watch the others over take you. Personally I think this is a good thing as long as the club doesnt lose its heart and soul from West London and to be honest it really hasnt. The impression is that it has but the vast majority of fans who go week in week out are the 'locals'. Football, and particularly, english football has an increasing global appeal and I cant help but think that is a positive thing for the game. I do worry about young players here but, putting aside the compensation issue, the EPPP is a great step forward in this area. Chelsea are producing some outstanding young players, who und=fortunately are more likely to play for other teams. I do hope this changes though. I'll ignore that you are from Battersea but support Palace LOL The three highlighted bits: 1. I've supported Palace my whole life, and despite our complete lack of success (except the ZDS) in all those years, I'd honestly rather 'stagnate' than swap it to become a global brand. Wherever I go in the world I bump into Palace fans, only one or two, and they're pretty much always from Croydon - we have a bond, shared experiences, not just claiming to support the same football team when they're on telly 2. Don't get me started on EPPP. EPPP is just another example of the premier league trying to cut themselves an even bigger piece of the pie, with scant regard for what it does further down the tree or even for the national game (will the likes of Crewe, famed for some excellent young talent coming through their academy in the past, have any chance of keeping decent young players? Probably not, and the majority will disappear to 'big' clubs and be swallowed up never to be seen again) 3. Born in Battersea - moved to Croydon when I was one year old (and with my old man being from Kings Cross and a Spurs fan, the only way I was going to be able to watch live football at the age of 11 was to go to my local club on my own or with a mate - hence Palace is/was my local team - first time I've been accused of glory hunting by spurning Chelsea for Palace ) 1. I understand this BUT I can honestly say my greatest moments at a football ground have not been scunthorpe away. I love football and love my club. I love the passion, the commaraderie, the ups and downs. The champions league was like a soap opera for us but I can assure nothing will ever beat our night in Munich. It wasn't just about winning it was compensation for all the hurt. Whether you are a local club or world wide brand the excitement and devotion to your team isnt really any different and I love seeing Chelsea shirts all over the world. Those people may have a slight affinity but if football touches there hearts in that way great! 2. There's a danger this becomes EPPP conversation but the EPPP is a very good thing. Crewe?? what world class players they developed?? David Platt?? The issue of youth development in this country is that basically for decades we have been pretty awful. The law of averages says every club will produce players for the professional game and YES some clubs have been more successful then others. However, how many WORLD CLASS players are we producing considering the amount who enter our system?? Very few. The EPPP actually forces clubs to invest heavily in player development. I think its a great thing. The most talented mathematician should be schooled at the best maths school. The most talented musicians similarly at the best music schools. The best footballers should get the best schooling at the best academies which are assessed against a variety of criteria, including player advancement. 3. BORN IN BATTERSEA!! LOL Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.50pm) Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.51pm) Re: Crewe - I never said World class, but from memory: David Platt, Geoff Thomas, Danny Murphy, Robbie Savage, Neil Lennon (I think), Dean Ashton - undoubtedly there will be more, and apologies if any of those are mis-remembered. They're also the only pro club I know to have done this: [Link] Born in Battersea, dragged up in Croydon. I couldn't even walk when I left Battersea - I have no affinity with the area aside from much of my family hailing from there - I see my choice to follow my local club in preference to a much larger one my mothers' family followed as a badge of honour, and certainly not something to be ashamed of. If my kids choose to follow Crowborough Athletic rather than Palace because they are their local team, I'll actually be proud of them for that (although I've been to watch them play and they are truly dreadful) Only joking about Battersea thing!! Sorry I dont have his 'look how good crewe are'. Not one of those players are world class. The point about youth development in this country is that we dont, and have not with any form of consistency, developed technically and tactically gifted world class players. Hence the England team lacks in those areas outside of maybe 4 or 5. Great English players come through despite our system and not because of it. Youth development in this country is playing catch-up with the rest of the world, partly due to our football culture here and the FA being backward. Nearly every top team BUYS its creative players from abroad because we dont tend to produce them. We focus far too much on passing and team work at a young age and less on creativity. What the 'passers' in this county forget is that Barcelona pass the ball quickly until they can get it to Iniesta, Messi or Neymar. Its about time we invested time and energy in to our youth system but let the top clubs and premier league do it because the FA have been found wanting for 150 years!!! Forget Greg Dykes useless commission.Roll on the EPPP!! Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 2.29pm) But surely that's the point. A club the size of Crewe has consistently produced international footballers (again, I never said or implied world class), and brought through sufficient numbers of kids to be able to field a side of completely home-produced talent. The fact that 'top teams' bring these players in from abroad is surely part of the problem. Take Wilf Zaha - he comes through the Palace ranks and, partially at least because we don't have the resources to simply buy in foreign talent, he gets a run in the first team early and develops as a player because of it. Then a 'top team' pick him up, where he warms the bench. He won't end up a better player from being at a 'top team', he'll end up a worse one, with shot confidence. Or John Bostock - in the Palace first team at the age of 15, scouted by Barcelona (allegedly), one of the most exciting prospects in the country (arguably), poached by Spurs because he was too young to sign a pro contract at Palace, and that was the end of his career. If you think those, and examples like them, are a good thing for the game, then I respectfully suggest you're blinkered into seeing the benefit to the 'top teams' of being able to cherrypick talent produced by others for a derisory sum on a whim (and then discard them if/when they don't fit) over and above any benefit to the game at a national or international level. Certainly if I were running a club and we had a massively talented young prospect, I'd be doing my utmost to keep him out of the public eye for fear of him being pinched - certainly nobody under 16 would ever be promoted to the first team squad - you'd be mad to! In fact, arguably, the whole point of teams outside the top having an academy at all is diminished (now that they know they have to make their talent available to 'top teams' for peanuts). What this basically means is: 1. take a kid on 2. teach him, coach him, turn him into a decent player 3. if you turn him into a player who's good, he's gone in return for a Mars bar and a hearty handshake 4. if he turns out to not be as good as you thought he might be, you can keep him (but probably don't want him) 5. find new kid and repeat from point 1 Brilliant for the 'top teams' but a death knell for academies in the lower leagues in this country. I can't actually remember what status our academy has currently, but I know it's high (either top tier or second tier) so EPPP may well be good for Palace, but it's certainly not good for the game. They got it through by blackmail - threatening to withdraw part of the money the premier league gives to the rest of the league if it wasn't passed. Of course for all those clubs who have let their academies go already or have such dire ones they don't produce any decent players, it was an absolute no brainer to take the cash over the massively unlikely prospect of ever being able to sell a Zaha, Ashton, Walcott, etc. but for the clubs who have consistently produced talent, it's a kick in the teeth The point is the top teams tend to bring in foreign talent because we dont produce world class talent anywhere near enough in this country. I appreciate you never said Crewe players were world class but again thats my point. We congratulate academies who produce mediocre players. The top teams want the top players. They want to be world class and compete with Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern etc. The English/British talent has just not been produced due to poor coaching and a even worse a poor philosophy/culture. In terms of players leaving one club and going to a 'bigger' club there are also plenty of examples of where players have progressed and done well. Walcott at Arsenal you could say? Also Jack Wilshere was a luton as a kid before Arsenal took him. Also the whole point about youth development in ANY sphere is that they should train at the best training centres. The EPPP is an objective assessment of how good each academy is, thus Cat 1 clubs have the Best training centres for youth development. In terms of being 'blinkered', the truth is that very few players will make it into our first team but they will make it in to other peoples first team. When a player is released by Chelsea, Man Utd or the likes they are 'snapped up' by so-called smaller clubs who will then benefit from these players. Smaller clubs will be getting VERY good players from us. In fact, you are far more likely to have a youth player from Chelsea in your team then we are likely to have from you (yes I know about Victor Moses), but the point is still relevant. I have less problem with the movement of youth players than the derisory mandated sum for them (apologies if this is incorrect but I've had enough of work and on my way out the door so can't be @rsed to look it up) I remeber it being in the 120K region? That's f**k all in return for possibly 7 years or more of investment by the feeder club in the player. Also keep in mind that for every Zaha or Bostock there's probably 50 players who don't make it. So you spend a fortune on players, most don't make it, and the few who do are taken from you by clubs with far more financial resources than you for next to nothing - kind of makes the academy slightly untenable wouldn't you agree? Anyroad, I'm going home! I think you have a point on the compensation although it is more than you are suggesting. I do feel that whilst compensation is an issue there are many very good points to the EPPP- some of which I have already highlighted. The most important being that Academies will be properly checked and have to deliver a top quality service. This includes more contact time, better coaching, better facitlities and a higher level of matches (Chelsea have played a multitude of top teams academies in this country and abroad since the EPPP has been introduced). Their U19's are unbeaten in the UEFA Champions Youth League and have qualified for the next stage. This league is where the youth teams of those clubs in the Champions league play the same teams in a youth version of the event. In terms of all the players that drop out from an academy, the facts are that the biys who drop out from a top clubs academy are far more likely to saty in professional football then those who dont make it at a 'lesser' academy.
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chelski

london 15 Nov 13 11.54am

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 5.33pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 5.19pm

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 4.43pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 2.28pm

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 2.06pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.47pm

Quote npn at 14 Nov 2013 1.24pm

Quote chelski at 14 Nov 2013 1.01pm

I, too, don't miss the violence, but much of the soul has gone out of the game at the highest level, I hope you'll agree.

I'll ignore that you are from Battersea but support Palace LOL

Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.50pm)

Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 1.51pm)

Only joking about Battersea thing!!

Edited by chelski (14 Nov 2013 2.29pm)

Brilliant for the 'top teams' but a death knell for academies in the lower leagues in this country.

Anyroad, I'm going home!

I think you have a point on the compensation although it is more than you are suggesting.
I do feel that whilst compensation is an issue there are many very good points to the EPPP- some of which I have already highlighted. The most important being that Academies will be properly checked and have to deliver a top quality service. This includes more contact time, better coaching, better facitlities and a higher level of matches (Chelsea have played a multitude of top teams academies in this country and abroad since the EPPP has been introduced). Their U19's are unbeaten in the UEFA Champions Youth League and have qualified for the next stage. This league is where the youth teams of those clubs in the Champions league play the same teams in a youth version of the event.
In terms of all the players that drop out from an academy, the facts are that the biys who drop out from a top clubs academy are far more likely to saty in professional football then those who dont make it at a 'lesser' academy.

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chelski london 15 Nov 13 12.04pm
Quote oohahh at 14 Nov 2013 5.49pm Quote oohahh at 12 Nov 2013 10.21pm Chelsea have the biggest squad of juniors in the world How many will make it to your under 16's or under 18's? And how many will make it to the first team? In fact how many of your first team are from your own academy? This could reach 1000 LOL Ok, firstly the above quote. Actually they dont. You just ASSUME they do and no nothing about Chesea's youth system. You make the mistake that a few have made in repsonses. YOU ASSUME and state an opinion as if it is fact. Its not. The fact is that the vast majority of U16's and U18's are English. We recently offered ten 14 year olds (English) scholarships at the club. An anwswer to my own question in this report Terry was the last player to graduate from your £100 million academy [Link] Not actually true. In terms of graduating to our first team there have been quite a few who have played since John Terry, although few regulars. Ryan Bertrand is a first team squad member although he only came to us at 16. Most of our recent successful academy products are out on loan and are doing very well e.g Nathaniel Chalobah, Todd Kane, Josh McEachran. Vitesse Arnheim are our international feeder club and we have 6 players there I believe, on loan. I think they may be top of the dutch league having beat Ajax this week (but not sure). Our youth teams over the last few years have been very successful in domestic and international competitions having won the FA youth Cup twice in the last 4 years and been runners-up twice in the last six years. Our U16's won the FA Premier League tournament recently beating Real Madrid in the final and that was without our two best players who were on international duty. These squads are predominantly homegrown players and whilst our academy has had a lot spent on it it is beginning to see the benefits with the quality of players being produced. It is true to state that we have lacked players coming through to our own first team in recent years although i suggest that this will change in the next couple of years. However, the academy is clearly producing some exceptional players which may not benefit chelsea but will benefit other clubs and English football generally. PS 1000?!?!?! Edited by chelski (15 Nov 2013 12.05pm)
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chelski

london 15 Nov 13 12.04pm

Quote oohahh at 14 Nov 2013 5.49pm

Quote oohahh at 12 Nov 2013 10.21pm

This could reach 1000 LOL

An anwswer to my own question in this report Terry was the last player to graduate from your £100 million academy

[Link]

Not actually true. In terms of graduating to our first team there have been quite a few who have played since John Terry, although few regulars. Ryan Bertrand is a first team squad member although he only came to us at 16.
Most of our recent successful academy products are out on loan and are doing very well e.g Nathaniel Chalobah, Todd Kane, Josh McEachran. Vitesse Arnheim are our international feeder club and we have 6 players there I believe, on loan. I think they may be top of the dutch league having beat Ajax this week (but not sure).
Our youth teams over the last few years have been very successful in domestic and international competitions having won the FA youth Cup twice in the last 4 years and been runners-up twice in the last six years.
Our U16's won the FA Premier League tournament recently beating Real Madrid in the final and that was without our two best players who were on international duty.
These squads are predominantly homegrown players and whilst our academy has had a lot spent on it it is beginning to see the benefits with the quality of players being produced.
It is true to state that we have lacked players coming through to our own first team in recent years although i suggest that this will change in the next couple of years. However, the academy is clearly producing some exceptional players which may not benefit chelsea but will benefit other clubs and English football generally.

PS 1000?!?!?!

Edited by chelski (15 Nov 2013 12.05pm)

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chelski london 16 Dec 13 12.16pm
Oh I was going to post something and this says it all: So we at Palace will prefer to have a few hundred 'singers' in a 25,000 stadium and settle for players who will succeed with a 2-1 defeat? We will bemoan the absence of a hard hooligan element? Well if I were a rich man I'd want to take a small stadium, increase it to a big stadium and fill it every game by supplying a stream of very good players. I'd want a team to aspire to winning a European cup, then to just hold onto a prem position. If that meant attracting families and visitors to a safe, comfortable place. If this meant encouraging the hard, hooligan element to stay away (with their season tickets?) in distant pubs, job done I'd say. Those who say otherwise really will prefer to have a lesser club subsidised by a rich man so they can sing songs and look hard. Perhaps this type of supporter can be expected to take over at Chelsea and take their club to their exalted level. Abram is a business man, not a fool.
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chelski

london 16 Dec 13 12.16pm

Oh I was going to post something and this says it all:

So we at Palace will prefer to have a few hundred 'singers' in a 25,000 stadium and settle for players who will succeed with a 2-1 defeat? We will bemoan the absence of a hard hooligan element? Well if I were a rich man I'd want to take a small stadium, increase it to a big stadium and fill it every game by supplying a stream of very good players. I'd want a team to aspire to winning a European cup, then to just hold onto a prem position. If that meant attracting families and visitors to a safe, comfortable place. If this meant encouraging the hard, hooligan element to stay away (with their season tickets?) in distant pubs, job done I'd say. Those who say otherwise really will prefer to have a lesser club subsidised by a rich man so they can sing songs and look hard. Perhaps this type of supporter can be expected to take over at Chelsea and take their club to their exalted level. Abram is a business man, not a fool.

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pink Northfleet, Kent 16 Dec 13 12.20pm
All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ? " I hate those f@cking northern monkeys " The late Lenny Mclean.
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pink

Northfleet, Kent 16 Dec 13 12.20pm

All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ?

" I hate those f@cking northern monkeys " The late Lenny Mclean.

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chelski london 16 Dec 13 12.24pm
Quote pink at 16 Dec 2013 12.20pm All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ? Yes I agree. I thought you were actually unlucky not to get something out of the game. We lack the finisher to kill teams off but that said, you had good opportunities that were wasted
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chelski

london 16 Dec 13 12.24pm

Quote pink at 16 Dec 2013 12.20pm

All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ?

Yes I agree. I thought you were actually unlucky not to get something out of the game. We lack the finisher to kill teams off but that said, you had good opportunities that were wasted

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Beaverwilly Croydon 16 Dec 13 1.37pm
Quote chelski at 16 Dec 2013 12.24pm Quote pink at 16 Dec 2013 12.20pm All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ? Yes I agree. I thought you were actually unlucky not to get something out of the game. We lack the finisher to kill teams off but that said, you had good opportunities that were wasted Is that the kind of "support" you normally get for your home games? I think I heard your fans sing 2 or 3 songs all game whereas we carried on till the end. Is is embarrassing your own manager clapped us away fans but didn't bother with the home fans? Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.
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Beaverwilly

Croydon 16 Dec 13 1.37pm

Quote chelski at 16 Dec 2013 12.24pm

Quote pink at 16 Dec 2013 12.20pm

All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ?

Yes I agree. I thought you were actually unlucky not to get something out of the game. We lack the finisher to kill teams off but that said, you had good opportunities that were wasted

Is that the kind of "support" you normally get for your home games?

I think I heard your fans sing 2 or 3 songs all game whereas we carried on till the end.

Is is embarrassing your own manager clapped us away fans but didn't bother with the home fans?

Whenever I feel the need to exercise, I lie down until it goes away.

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chelski london 16 Dec 13 1.50pm
Quote Beaverwilly at 16 Dec 2013 1.37pm Quote chelski at 16 Dec 2013 12.24pm Quote pink at 16 Dec 2013 12.20pm All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ? Yes I agree. I thought you were actually unlucky not to get something out of the game. We lack the finisher to kill teams off but that said, you had good opportunities that were wasted Is that the kind of "support" you normally get for your home games? I think I heard your fans sing 2 or 3 songs all game whereas we carried on till the end. Is is embarrassing your own manager clapped us away fans but didn't bother with the home fans? None of the above. I'd be the first to accept that the atmosphere when we play the small teams isnt often good. We are expected to win and having experienced so many big games at the bridge playing palace isnt a big motivation for many fans. Of course for you it was a massive game! Atmosphere varies depending on the team and stature of the match. I am sure if you were to play your equivalent, of say, grimsby the atmosphere wouldnt be great either LOL Edited by chelski (16 Dec 2013 2.08pm)
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chelski

london 16 Dec 13 1.50pm

Quote Beaverwilly at 16 Dec 2013 1.37pm

Quote chelski at 16 Dec 2013 12.24pm

Quote pink at 16 Dec 2013 12.20pm

All that aside Chelski, i thought we did well on Saturday , and with some sharper finishing could have got something from the game. Your view ?

Yes I agree. I thought you were actually unlucky not to get something out of the game. We lack the finisher to kill teams off but that said, you had good opportunities that were wasted

Is that the kind of "support" you normally get for your home games?

I think I heard your fans sing 2 or 3 songs all game whereas we carried on till the end.

Is is embarrassing your own manager clapped us away fans but didn't bother with the home fans?

None of the above. I'd be the first to accept that the atmosphere when we play the small teams isnt often good. We are expected to win and having experienced so many big games at the bridge playing palace isnt a big motivation for many fans. Of course for you it was a massive game! Atmosphere varies depending on the team and stature of the match. I am sure if you were to play your equivalent, of say, grimsby the atmosphere wouldnt be great either LOL

Edited by chelski (16 Dec 2013 2.08pm)

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Baldfella Wigan 16 Dec 13 1.55pm
Of the opponents you've seen this year Mr Chelski how did we compare ?
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Baldfella

Wigan 16 Dec 13 1.55pm

Of the opponents you've seen this year Mr Chelski how did we compare ?

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chelski london 16 Dec 13 1.59pm
Quote Baldfella at 16 Dec 2013 1.55pm Of the opponents you've seen this year Mr Chelski how did we compare ? I thought you did quite well. Fulham have been the worse team at our place and you were better then Hull. Even though we beat Cardiff easily they did quite well at our place. You definately better than Fulham and Hull. Think you could stay up as long as you pick up points against the bottom 6/7 teams.
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chelski

london 16 Dec 13 1.59pm

Quote Baldfella at 16 Dec 2013 1.55pm

Of the opponents you've seen this year Mr Chelski how did we compare ?

I thought you did quite well. Fulham have been the worse team at our place and you were better then Hull. Even though we beat Cardiff easily they did quite well at our place. You definately better than Fulham and Hull. Think you could stay up as long as you pick up points against the bottom 6/7 teams.

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