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Franca Matheus to start v Everton!?

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PatrickA Flag London 05 Jan 24 9.32am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

I thought he had a promising first half.
He has that easy control of the ball and good first touch.
I would have liked him to get more of the ball as much of our play was concentrated down our left side instead.
It may have been better for Franca to start on the left where at least he would have been the beneficiary of Anderson’s switched passes.
To me he looks like his real role might be attacking midfield, but of course Eze plays there so it looks like Franca’s opportunities at the moment will be in wide areas.

 

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Mwncisee Flag Middlesbrough 05 Jan 24 9.57am Send a Private Message to Mwncisee Add Mwncisee as a friend

I has have always been an advocate of Franca from the very first whispers of us being linked to him and last night reassured me. As others have said he looked tidy and direct albeit a little rusty.

I can see a future with Olise's ability to cut inside from the right wing and play in-swinging shots/crosses with his left and Franca playing on the right wing, driving towards the box.

 

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TheBigToePunt Flag 05 Jan 24 11.21am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

I don't want to be pessimistic, and of course it is very early days, but I didn't see any sort of quality in Franca whatsoever last night, or in his previous sub appearances.

He is obviously very keen, which might be affecting his decision-making, but he seemed to have almost no judgement or awareness at all.

In terms of distribution, he was trying passes which were never, ever there to be played, ignoring ones that were, but most of all making a below-average job of even those passes he did identify.

At one point just before he came off, he tried a left foot pass through to Eze in the box (when Eze had clearly been tracked by covering defenders) and sort of blundered it in there at knee height. It went flying out for a goal kick. Eze gave him an encouraging clap, but must have thought 'WTF?'.

A couple of minutes later Franca had the ball wide right during a period where we had Everton pinned back. Andersen stepped forward into the right-back position to offer Franca support. Our players could see what was happening and started getting ready for a cross into the box from Andersen, who was clearly setting himself to whip a first-time ball into the area.

Franca held it too long, giving Everton players a chance to get close and then, instead of setting the ball in front of Andersen's right foot to allow a first-time cross, he played it too heavily just outside Andersen's left foot. Andersen had to take three touches just to prevent the counter.

These are very small details, but they smack of poor quality, and Franca did it all night.

Finally, his judgement when running with the ball was poor. His best moment came in the first half when he got away from the left-back on the halfway line and ran at the centre of the Everton defence. He got a free kick in a good position, but it was a needless foul - Franca had already played his pass, to nobody, despite having two well-placed players to pick from.

The moment in front of the Holmesdale, when he got the ball in a 1v1 with Mykolenko out by the corner flag, summed up my concerns. Franca faced his defender, touched the ball to the right and advanced as if he expected the defender to just disappear into thin air. Mykolenko, who is a young and average player himself, just casually stepped in front of the ball, leaving Franca helpless as it rolled out of play for a goal kick. No forward beats his man every time, but it was a really weird attempt to begin with, as if Franca had never played against an adult before.

It would be unlike Palace to spend north of £15m on a player without careful research, so I presume he looked the part before arriving here. Based on what I have seen though, I am not sure what type of player he is supposed to be. He is not slow, but certainly not rapid. He seems to do everything too frantically to be a passer. I wonder what position and style he thinks he plays best in?

The lad is very young, a long way from home, and trying to play in a very different and much higher standard of football. He will need many more games to have any chance, but so does every young player. Most don't get them, because you have to be useful (to some extent) pretty quickly just to get those first 20-30 games. Based on last night, I'm not sure why Franca is going to get them apart from the price tag.

I would, or course, love him to do well.

 

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Jan 24 11.31am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I don't want to be pessimistic, and of course it is very early days, but I didn't see any sort of quality in Franca whatsoever last night, or in his previous sub appearances.

He is obviously very keen, which might be affecting his decision-making, but he seemed to have almost no judgement or awareness at all.

In terms of distribution, he was trying passes which were never, ever there to be played, ignoring ones that were, but most of all making a below-average job of even those passes he did identify.

At one point just before he came off, he tried a left foot pass through to Eze in the box (when Eze had clearly been tracked by covering defenders) and sort of blundered it in there at knee height. It went flying out for a goal kick. Eze gave him an encouraging clap, but must have thought 'WTF?'.

A couple of minutes later Franca had the ball wide right during a period where we had Everton pinned back. Andersen stepped forward into the right-back position to offer Franca support. Our players could see what was happening and started getting ready for a cross into the box from Andersen, who was clearly setting himself to whip a first-time ball into the area.

Franca held it too long, giving Everton players a chance to get close and then, instead of setting the ball in front of Andersen's right foot to allow a first-time cross, he played it too heavily just outside Andersen's left foot. Andersen had to take three touches just to prevent the counter.

These are very small details, but they smack of poor quality, and Franca did it all night.

Finally, his judgement when running with the ball was poor. His best moment came in the first half when he got away from the left-back on the halfway line and ran at the centre of the Everton defence. He got a free kick in a good position, but it was a needless foul - Franca had already played his pass, to nobody, despite having two well-placed players to pick from.

The moment in front of the Holmesdale, when he got the ball in a 1v1 with Mykolenko out by the corner flag, summed up my concerns. Franca faced his defender, touched the ball to the right and advanced as if he expected the defender to just disappear into thin air. Mykolenko, who is a young and average player himself, just casually stepped in front of the ball, leaving Franca helpless as it rolled out of play for a goal kick. No forward beats his man every time, but it was a really weird attempt to begin with, as if Franca had never played against an adult before.

It would be unlike Palace to spend north of £15m on a player without careful research, so I presume he looked the part before arriving here. Based on what I have seen though, I am not sure what type of player he is supposed to be. He is not slow, but certainly not rapid. He seems to do everything too frantically to be a passer. I wonder what position and style he thinks he plays best in?

The lad is very young, a long way from home, and trying to play in a very different and much higher standard of football. He will need many more games to have any chance, but so does every young player. Most don't get them, because you have to be useful (to some extent) pretty quickly just to get those first 20-30 games. Based on last night, I'm not sure why Franca is going to get them apart from the price tag.

I would, or course, love him to do well.

I actually thought Franca showed promise. One I don't think has the potential or skill set is Ahamada. Franca had flashes of driving forward and seemed stronger than I thought he would be. Ahamada has had one half decent run out in the last two seasons. If we could, I'd like to see him on loan somewhere.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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silvertop Flag Portishead 05 Jan 24 11.33am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Yeah, I was not hugely impressed either. His mazy run got the pulse racing - perhaps the only time last night - but then he fluffed the end product. I would rather he had found a killer pass than "won" a free kick.

He is panicky, is not strong enough, and he lacks any understanding with his team mates. However, all these things will improve over time with more game time, training, English, and upper body conditioning.

My worst gripe with him was his lack of complete player. And by this I mean his defensive capabilities. He doesn't have them in mind or body. I think that is why Roy won't play him save for late sub cameos. Players rounded him with ease and he simply let them go. He made moderate quality players look like Pele. That requires a complete change of mindset as well as training.

 

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dreamwaverider Flag London 05 Jan 24 11.39am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I don't want to be pessimistic, and of course it is very early days, but I didn't see any sort of quality in Franca whatsoever last night, or in his previous sub appearances.

He is obviously very keen, which might be affecting his decision-making, but he seemed to have almost no judgement or awareness at all.

In terms of distribution, he was trying passes which were never, ever there to be played, ignoring ones that were, but most of all making a below-average job of even those passes he did identify.

At one point just before he came off, he tried a left foot pass through to Eze in the box (when Eze had clearly been tracked by covering defenders) and sort of blundered it in there at knee height. It went flying out for a goal kick. Eze gave him an encouraging clap, but must have thought 'WTF?'.

A couple of minutes later Franca had the ball wide right during a period where we had Everton pinned back. Andersen stepped forward into the right-back position to offer Franca support. Our players could see what was happening and started getting ready for a cross into the box from Andersen, who was clearly setting himself to whip a first-time ball into the area.

Franca held it too long, giving Everton players a chance to get close and then, instead of setting the ball in front of Andersen's right foot to allow a first-time cross, he played it too heavily just outside Andersen's left foot. Andersen had to take three touches just to prevent the counter.

These are very small details, but they smack of poor quality, and Franca did it all night.

Finally, his judgement when running with the ball was poor. His best moment came in the first half when he got away from the left-back on the halfway line and ran at the centre of the Everton defence. He got a free kick in a good position, but it was a needless foul - Franca had already played his pass, to nobody, despite having two well-placed players to pick from.

The moment in front of the Holmesdale, when he got the ball in a 1v1 with Mykolenko out by the corner flag, summed up my concerns. Franca faced his defender, touched the ball to the right and advanced as if he expected the defender to just disappear into thin air. Mykolenko, who is a young and average player himself, just casually stepped in front of the ball, leaving Franca helpless as it rolled out of play for a goal kick. No forward beats his man every time, but it was a really weird attempt to begin with, as if Franca had never played against an adult before.

It would be unlike Palace to spend north of £15m on a player without careful research, so I presume he looked the part before arriving here. Based on what I have seen though, I am not sure what type of player he is supposed to be. He is not slow, but certainly not rapid. He seems to do everything too frantically to be a passer. I wonder what position and style he thinks he plays best in?

The lad is very young, a long way from home, and trying to play in a very different and much higher standard of football. He will need many more games to have any chance, but so does every young player. Most don't get them, because you have to be useful (to some extent) pretty quickly just to get those first 20-30 games. Based on last night, I'm not sure why Franca is going to get them apart from the price tag.

I would, or course, love him to do well.

I got slated for questioning his price tag after his second cameo appearance. I appreciate it was early days, but even so £20m for an unproven kid with average skills seemed excessive. Nothing has changed.
Maybe he will grow into a top player and be worth it then. But I can assure you, no farmer pays mature value for a piglet ever no matter how good its shape. How on earth could we possibly have agreed such a high figure? As I recall, one of the conditions of release clause was if he wins the Balon d'Or. Seems a long way off today.
I would love to know what really happened in the negotiations.
Once again, I really hope ive called this wrong as he seems a really good kid with a great heart, and clearly eager to learn. Best of luck to him no matter what.

 

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TheBigToePunt Flag 05 Jan 24 11.52am Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by dreamwaverider

I got slated for questioning his price tag after his second cameo appearance. I appreciate it was early days, but even so £20m for an unproven kid with average skills seemed excessive. Nothing has changed.
Maybe he will grow into a top player and be worth it then. But I can assure you, no farmer pays mature value for a piglet ever no matter how good its shape. How on earth could we possibly have agreed such a high figure? As I recall, one of the conditions of release clause was if he wins the Balon d'Or. Seems a long way off today.
I would love to know what really happened in the negotiations.
Once again, I really hope ive called this wrong as he seems a really good kid with a great heart, and clearly eager to learn. Best of luck to him no matter what.

The Guardian reported this at the time:

Crystal Palace are set to sign the 19-year-old Brazilian forward Matheus França from Flamengo in a deal worth up to £26m. França has emerged as Palace’s main attacking target after WilfriedZaha turned down a deal worth £200,000 a week to join Galatasaray last week.

França, who has represented Brazil at various youth levels and can play in a variety of forward roles, was also tracked by Chelsea and Newcastle after starring for Flamengo last season. Palace’s sporting director, Dougie Freedman, is believed to have played an instrumental role in the signing, having scouted França for some time.

França is expected to complete a medical on Monday before travelling to London to sign. It is understood the deal includes various bonuses, including €5m (£4.3m) if Franca is nominated for the Ballon d’Or and a 20% sell-on clause for any fee that exceeds the £17m Palace will pay up front.

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 05 Jan 24 11.55am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I don't want to be pessimistic, and of course it is very early days, but I didn't see any sort of quality in Franca whatsoever last night, or in his previous sub appearances.

He is obviously very keen, which might be affecting his decision-making, but he seemed to have almost no judgement or awareness at all.

In terms of distribution, he was trying passes which were never, ever there to be played, ignoring ones that were, but most of all making a below-average job of even those passes he did identify.

At one point just before he came off, he tried a left foot pass through to Eze in the box (when Eze had clearly been tracked by covering defenders) and sort of blundered it in there at knee height. It went flying out for a goal kick. Eze gave him an encouraging clap, but must have thought 'WTF?'.

A couple of minutes later Franca had the ball wide right during a period where we had Everton pinned back. Andersen stepped forward into the right-back position to offer Franca support. Our players could see what was happening and started getting ready for a cross into the box from Andersen, who was clearly setting himself to whip a first-time ball into the area.

Franca held it too long, giving Everton players a chance to get close and then, instead of setting the ball in front of Andersen's right foot to allow a first-time cross, he played it too heavily just outside Andersen's left foot. Andersen had to take three touches just to prevent the counter.

These are very small details, but they smack of poor quality, and Franca did it all night.

Finally, his judgement when running with the ball was poor. His best moment came in the first half when he got away from the left-back on the halfway line and ran at the centre of the Everton defence. He got a free kick in a good position, but it was a needless foul - Franca had already played his pass, to nobody, despite having two well-placed players to pick from.

The moment in front of the Holmesdale, when he got the ball in a 1v1 with Mykolenko out by the corner flag, summed up my concerns. Franca faced his defender, touched the ball to the right and advanced as if he expected the defender to just disappear into thin air. Mykolenko, who is a young and average player himself, just casually stepped in front of the ball, leaving Franca helpless as it rolled out of play for a goal kick. No forward beats his man every time, but it was a really weird attempt to begin with, as if Franca had never played against an adult before.

It would be unlike Palace to spend north of £15m on a player without careful research, so I presume he looked the part before arriving here. Based on what I have seen though, I am not sure what type of player he is supposed to be. He is not slow, but certainly not rapid. He seems to do everything too frantically to be a passer. I wonder what position and style he thinks he plays best in?

The lad is very young, a long way from home, and trying to play in a very different and much higher standard of football. He will need many more games to have any chance, but so does every young player. Most don't get them, because you have to be useful (to some extent) pretty quickly just to get those first 20-30 games. Based on last night, I'm not sure why Franca is going to get them apart from the price tag.

I would, or course, love him to do well.

I respectfully disagree with the pessimism TBTP.

Franca is almost certainly what we need or what I and apparently others, desire. I would also suggest your comments are representative of the gripes many have with the game these days and with our current identity. Apologies ASCPFC but Ahamada is another case for me where I would like to see more of him.

The flip side of this was our constant and predictable passing it around at the back yesterday, apparent desire or design to play at walking pace and our inability to capitalise on them being down to 10, and at one stage 9, men.

I'd suggest 11 Franca/Ahamdas would be entertaining but equally disastrous for any team however the other end of the spectrum is the boring, predictable and often ineffective football we displayed yesterday. Even Zaha at the end, when in advanced positions, would repeatedly turn around and pass the ball back toward defence, slowing down and effectively nullifying our own attacks.

Pep is the best example, for my money, at balancing the rigid, structural and possession based approach to the game however doing this with players who are both willing and capable to show some flair and take some profitable risks, most notably up top. Having an unlimited chequebook is of course pivotal to his enormous success.

I had started another thread with regards to maintaining our current status. Footballers who play the statistics game and conservatively play, with extreme risk aversion, may well preserve but will never progress us, broing many to death in the process. Something a bit different and able to unnerve/rattle opposition defences is therefore required or every football match will be identical with only 2/3 highlights ever defining them.

Franca featured yesterday in a very tired, laboured, rigid football match between two ideologically similar managers. I actually put a comment up on BBC saying Roy and Sean may well have had a staring match to determine the outcome. He is of course very young, coming to a very different social and footballing culture and will take time to find his feet. The discipline and patterns are surely easier to coach into him than the mentality and instinct he showed yesterday, albeit without much success at the end of it. The FK he won that Eze lackadaisically skied over the bar was a glimpse of this.

It is repeatedly speculated or stated, I wouldn't know, that Roy does not coach attacking play, only ever focussing upon structure/shape. This would be evident in our performances and was so last night. If so, coach and mould Franca into that and like Eze/Olise, and Wilf before them, Franca may well provide a key to unlock defences up the other end in lieu of us having a tactical and practiced strategy for doing so.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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TheBigToePunt Flag 05 Jan 24 12.04pm Send a Private Message to TheBigToePunt Add TheBigToePunt as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

I respectfully disagree with the pessimism TBTP.

Franca is almost certainly what we need or what I and apparently others, desire. I would also suggest your comments are representative of the gripes many have with the game these days and with our current identity. Apologies ASCPFC but Ahamada is another case for me where I would like to see more of him.

The flip side of this was our constant and predictable passing it around at the back yesterday, apparent desire or design to play at walking pace and our inability to capitalise on them being down to 10, and at one stage 9, men.

I'd suggest 11 Franca/Ahamdas would be entertaining but equally disastrous for any team however the other end of the spectrum is the boring, predictable and often ineffective football we displayed yesterday. Even Zaha at the end, when in advanced positions, would repeatedly turn around and pass the ball back toward defence, slowing down and effectively nullifying our own attacks.

Pep is the best example, for my money, at balancing the rigid, structural and possession based approach to the game however doing this with players who are both willing and capable to show some flair and take some profitable risks, most notably up top. Having an unlimited chequebook is of course pivotal to his enormous success.

I had started another thread with regards to maintaining our current status. Footballers who play the statistics game and conservatively play, with extreme risk aversion, may well preserve but will never progress us, broing many to death in the process. Something a bit different and able to unnerve/rattle opposition defences is therefore required or every football match will be identical with only 2/3 highlights ever defining them.

Franca featured yesterday in a very tired, laboured, rigid football match between two ideologically similar managers. I actually put a comment up on BBC saying Roy and Sean may well have had a staring match to determine the outcome. He is of course very young, coming to a very different social and footballing culture and will take time to find his feet. The discipline and patterns are surely easier to coach into him than the mentality and instinct he showed yesterday, albeit without much success at the end of it. The FK he won that Eze lackadaisically skied over the bar was a glimpse of this.

It is repeatedly speculated or stated, I wouldn't know, that Roy does not coach attacking play, only ever focussing upon structure/shape. This would be evident in our performances and was so last night. If so, coach and mould Franca into that and like Eze/Olise, and Wilf before them, Franca may well provide a key to unlock defences up the other end in lieu of us having a tactical and practiced strategy for doing so.

I would certainly agree that a player with a positive mindset (i.e. one who wants to attack the opposing defender) is a rare and valuable commodity. The younger Zaha was blessed with it - he never, ever passed the ball backwards when he got it.

Thing is, you have to produce something or you are just running up dead ends and blind alleys.

The ability has to match the mindset.

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 05 Jan 24 12.14pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I would certainly agree that a player with a positive mindset (i.e. one who wants to attack the opposing defender) is a rare and valuable commodity. The younger Zaha was blessed with it - he never, ever passed the ball backwards when he got it.

Thing is, you have to produce something or you are just running up dead ends and blind alleys.

The ability has to match the mindset.

Yes, I absolutely agree.

One argument would be that this was a criticism of a young Zaha, again for my money, our greatest modern player.

My shortened statement on Franca would be this: He is yet to be in a position where any definitive statement could be made of him. His shortfalls are obvious but not unexpected in the circumstances. I am hopeful that he can be brought up to pace and his natural ability, atop that coached into him, will be a highly valuable commodity for us.

May yet work out, may not. I am retaining optimism for the time being however and fall within the bracket of those desperate to see something beyond the sleep inducing performances of this season.

COYP

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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EaglesEaglesEagles Flag 05 Jan 24 12.30pm Send a Private Message to EaglesEaglesEagles Add EaglesEaglesEagles as a friend

I think we might underestimate how much nerves might affect a player's performance. The missed passes and a few strange decisions like the Mykolenko take-on could indicate this in Franca's performance. We can point to the few good things, like the run and cross in behind in the first half but no fan is fully enthused.

A big positive is that Franca's post-match interview suggests that he is excited and enjoyed his time on the pitch. Being given seventy minutes is also a big positive and Roy would have taken him off before then if he was overly concerned. Someone like Lerma or Edouard could have been shoved onto the wing, it's not as if Ahamada was the only alternative.

I'm hopeful and I think a good player to compare Franca with is Mitchell. I know he's a defender, but it took him a while and no doubt relentless training to adjust up from the U23s to Premier League standard. In my opinion Rak-Sakyi was on his way to this level before his injury. Furthermore, look at Mateta who is much older and could score in Germany but has had to completely change his game to be effective in England.

I know that upwards of £20m has been spent on Franca, but he's only been fit for three or four months and I think there's much to be said for time and training.
He's not Max Meyer 2.0 yet by any stretch.

 


I ain't got nuthin' funny to say. Sorry.

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palace99 Flag New Mills 05 Jan 24 12.33pm

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

I don't want to be pessimistic, and of course it is very early days, but I didn't see any sort of quality in Franca whatsoever last night, or in his previous sub appearances.

He is obviously very keen, which might be affecting his decision-making, but he seemed to have almost no judgement or awareness at all.

In terms of distribution, he was trying passes which were never, ever there to be played, ignoring ones that were, but most of all making a below-average job of even those passes he did identify.

At one point just before he came off, he tried a left foot pass through to Eze in the box (when Eze had clearly been tracked by covering defenders) and sort of blundered it in there at knee height. It went flying out for a goal kick. Eze gave him an encouraging clap, but must have thought 'WTF?'.

A couple of minutes later Franca had the ball wide right during a period where we had Everton pinned back. Andersen stepped forward into the right-back position to offer Franca support. Our players could see what was happening and started getting ready for a cross into the box from Andersen, who was clearly setting himself to whip a first-time ball into the area.

Franca held it too long, giving Everton players a chance to get close and then, instead of setting the ball in front of Andersen's right foot to allow a first-time cross, he played it too heavily just outside Andersen's left foot. Andersen had to take three touches just to prevent the counter.

These are very small details, but they smack of poor quality, and Franca did it all night.

Finally, his judgement when running with the ball was poor. His best moment came in the first half when he got away from the left-back on the halfway line and ran at the centre of the Everton defence. He got a free kick in a good position, but it was a needless foul - Franca had already played his pass, to nobody, despite having two well-placed players to pick from.

The moment in front of the Holmesdale, when he got the ball in a 1v1 with Mykolenko out by the corner flag, summed up my concerns. Franca faced his defender, touched the ball to the right and advanced as if he expected the defender to just disappear into thin air. Mykolenko, who is a young and average player himself, just casually stepped in front of the ball, leaving Franca helpless as it rolled out of play for a goal kick. No forward beats his man every time, but it was a really weird attempt to begin with, as if Franca had never played against an adult before.

It would be unlike Palace to spend north of £15m on a player without careful research, so I presume he looked the part before arriving here. Based on what I have seen though, I am not sure what type of player he is supposed to be. He is not slow, but certainly not rapid. He seems to do everything too frantically to be a passer. I wonder what position and style he thinks he plays best in?

The lad is very young, a long way from home, and trying to play in a very different and much higher standard of football. He will need many more games to have any chance, but so does every young player. Most don't get them, because you have to be useful (to some extent) pretty quickly just to get those first 20-30 games. Based on last night, I'm not sure why Franca is going to get them apart from the price tag.

I would, or course, love him to do well.

A fair summary. The highlighted comment was my concern, lost the ball so easily.
I thought he looked promising when he ran with the ball but those opportunities were few and far between.

A suspect a few cameo sub appearances will be his impact this season.
If anyone says he should be a starter after what we saw last night needs to take their rose tinted glasses off.
With Olise injured and Ayew away we desperately need a wide player ASAP - just as we did in the last transfer window.
I thought Danjuma for them who has had a disappointing loan looked really dangerous in the 1st half and is exactly the type of player we need.

 

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