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Ukraine- small offer of support (LOCKED)
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 Vaibow  vancouver/croydon 09 Mar 22 2.06am |
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War is an ugly thing, for the civilians that are in the cross fire and the youngsters pushed out as cannon fodder. However, both sides government are to blame, the Ukraine was tempting fate by getting western allies to inch closer to the east, esp. after the lisbon treaty stated otherwise. The Neo nazi military fractions in the Ukraine are also very.. revealing of why Russia would act out including the western sponsored bio labs stationed across the border. The best thing we can do, is offer our support to those fleeing or needing protection in that conflict - not flags waved in the stand as you all go home and forget about it. Just like covid, media is all over this, the lies are rampant and this is turning into a cult like situation again, where if you say different, you are ostracized. Sad part is, look at countries in the last week that have had military action taken against them, it will surprise you and show where the media's agenda lies.
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BlueJay  UK 09 Mar 22 1.32pm |
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Originally posted by Vaibow
War is an ugly thing, for the civilians that are in the cross fire and the youngsters pushed out as cannon fodder. However, both sides government are to blame, the Ukraine was tempting fate by getting western allies to inch closer to the east, esp. after the lisbon treaty stated otherwise. The Neo nazi military fractions in the Ukraine are also very.. revealing of why Russia would act out including the western sponsored bio labs stationed across the border. The best thing we can do, is offer our support to those fleeing or needing protection in that conflict - not flags waved in the stand as you all go home and forget about it. Just like covid, media is all over this, the lies are rampant and this is turning into a cult like situation again, where if you say different, you are ostracized. Sad part is, look at countries in the last week that have had military action taken against them, it will surprise you and show where the media's agenda lies.
Realistically, it's unlikely that Ukraine was going to be allowed into NATO, and from what has happened it could be argued that they were right to seek protection and means of defense from elsewhere. I can see some arguments from Putin's perspective, but he doesn't improve his (or anyones) situation with this invasion as he's more likely than ever to have ramped up defensive capabilities on his doorstep.. and realistically beyond ideas like a demilitarised zone, heavily arming Ukraine against future invasion becomes a given (unless Putin does occupy and country over the coming years). Our reply has, so far, been measured when while Putin's has clearly not been. Regardless of aspects of corruption and wayward politics in Ukraine, the idea that Putin is invading he 'denazify' Ukraine is barmy beyond words, and clearly just something thrown out there as justification for the unjustifiable. I doubt even Putin believed that anyone beyond his own borders would buy this, but here we are....
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| Mwncisee Middlesbrough 09 Mar 22 5.04pm |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
Realistically, it's unlikely that Ukraine was going to be allowed into NATO, and from what has happened it could be argued that they were right to seek protection and means of defense from elsewhere. I can see some arguments from Putin's perspective, but he doesn't improve his (or anyones) situation with this invasion as he's more likely than ever to have ramped up defensive capabilities on his doorstep.. and realistically beyond ideas like a demilitarised zone, heavily arming Ukraine against future invasion becomes a given (unless Putin does occupy and country over the coming years). Our reply has, so far, been measured when while Putin's has clearly not been. Regardless of aspects of corruption and wayward politics in Ukraine, the idea that Putin is invading he 'denazify' Ukraine is barmy beyond words, and clearly just something thrown out there as justification for the unjustifiable. I doubt even Putin believed that anyone beyond his own borders would buy this, but here we are....
Ben Wallace said himself on Sky News that UK Personnel have been training Ukrainian forces (You can check this out yourself, its called Operation Orbital and is in the public domain) for the purpose of upskilling them so they can join NATO. IMO I don't think the debate is if Ukraine would or would not have joined NATO the key debate is what right does a neighbouring state have to dictate the internal or foreign policy of a sovereign state.
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| Stirlingsays 09 Mar 22 5.11pm |
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Originally posted by Mwncisee
Ben Wallace said himself on Sky News that UK Personnel have been training Ukrainian forces (You can check this out yourself, its called Operation Orbital and is in the public domain) for the purpose of upskilling them so they can join NATO. IMO I don't think the debate is if Ukraine would or would not have joined NATO the key debate is what right does a neighbouring state have to dictate the internal or foreign policy of a sovereign state. None. However, America didn't let Cuba house Russian missiles did it....and the west celebrated that Kennedy decision for decades...Russia watched Nato put missiles aimed at it in both its former republics of Poland and Romania. Realistically it was never going to allow Ukraine to join Nato and Putin has been saying that for a long time.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| BlueJay UK 09 Mar 22 5.17pm |
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Originally posted by Mwncisee
Ben Wallace said himself on Sky News that UK Personnel have been training Ukrainian forces (You can check this out yourself, its called Operation Orbital and is in the public domain) for the purpose of upskilling them so they can join NATO. IMO I don't think the debate is if Ukraine would or would not have joined NATO the key debate is what right does a neighbouring state have to dictate the internal or foreign policy of a sovereign state. I can't see it myself. Too many hurdles to jump through and too dangerous, whereas a closer alliance outside of that did make some sense. That's just my opinion though of course. Regardless, what is happening now is unconscionable and as it gets worse by the day, the likelihood of a reaction to it likely moves in that direction too. I do feel that will (and likely should) fall short of direct involvement by NATO countries, but I'm far from confident that Putin stops here and suddenly starts playing nice with his new neighbours, should he obliterate resistance in Kjiv. Hopefully a peace agreement can be reached, though there won't be much peace left to keep the way things are going.. Edited by BlueJay (09 Mar 2022 5.18pm)
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 becky over the moon 09 Mar 22 8.49pm |
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Since this is now turning into a debate on Ukraine, rather than about the use of their flag, and there is already a thread covering this, I am locking this one and would ask you to take your wider debate over to the News & Politics Board.
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