Ayew and Benteke

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Ayew and Benteke

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palace99 New Mills 29 Sep 21 10.00am
Originally posted by MrRobbo Do many managers often change their starting 11's when doing well. Over the last couple of games PV has transitioned Luka and Eduard in, and I'm sure Olise will also come in when ready. Out of interest what changes to the starting 11 did you want? For what its worth I think the subs were right (on paper). The game was starting to swing, and we couldn't really get the ball to stick up top. Plus they are a big side. So bring on some height and some fresh legs. Unfortunately Benteke didn't put a shift in, so we were basically down to 10 men. Viera isn't stupid and would have seen what we saw. Will he trust that he can bring Benteke on for the last 15 to continue the good pressing work and help lead from the front? I doubt it. (In the same way that after Jairo's shocker I doubt he'll get a look in for a while.) FFS this is a discussion board, why do some people get so defensive. I'm happy if you disagree, just state your opinion and go. For the record we have won 1 game all season and are struggling to score so 'doing well' is clearly subjective. As you've asked what changes i would make, here are my observations. 1. Kouyate and Macca can't play in the same midfield - both work hard but neither is a great passer. So pick 1. He kept them in the same team until Monday's game. Luka has been slowly coming back to fitness but we also have Hughes who has not kicked a ball yet. Luka after a fine cameo against Spurs didn't feature at all against Liverpool - Jairo was brought on and we all know what happened thereafter, so your transitioning comment is a tad strange. 2. I would have put Olise on with 10 to go on Monday and changed to 442. We were getting overrun at 433 so simply changing personnel would have little impact - and it didn't 3. If we continue playing 433 start switching the Zaha and who ever is on the right. We are too predictable ATM 4. During games also consider switching to 352 and 442 in games rather than rigidly sticking to same system.
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palace99

New Mills 29 Sep 21 10.00am

Originally posted by MrRobbo

Do many managers often change their starting 11's when doing well. Over the last couple of games PV has transitioned Luka and Eduard in, and I'm sure Olise will also come in when ready. Out of interest what changes to the starting 11 did you want?

For what its worth I think the subs were right (on paper). The game was starting to swing, and we couldn't really get the ball to stick up top. Plus they are a big side. So bring on some height and some fresh legs. Unfortunately Benteke didn't put a shift in, so we were basically down to 10 men.

Viera isn't stupid and would have seen what we saw. Will he trust that he can bring Benteke on for the last 15 to continue the good pressing work and help lead from the front? I doubt it.

(In the same way that after Jairo's shocker I doubt he'll get a look in for a while.)

FFS this is a discussion board, why do some people get so defensive. I'm happy if you disagree, just state your opinion and go.

For the record we have won 1 game all season and are struggling to score so 'doing well' is clearly subjective.

As you've asked what changes i would make, here are my observations.

1. Kouyate and Macca can't play in the same midfield - both work hard but neither is a great passer. So pick 1. He kept them in the same team until Monday's game. Luka has been slowly coming back to fitness but we also have Hughes who has not kicked a ball yet. Luka after a fine cameo against Spurs didn't feature at all against Liverpool - Jairo was brought on and we all know what happened thereafter, so your transitioning comment is a tad strange.

2. I would have put Olise on with 10 to go on Monday and changed to 442. We were getting overrun at 433 so simply changing personnel would have little impact - and it didn't

3. If we continue playing 433 start switching the Zaha and who ever is on the right. We are too predictable ATM

4. During games also consider switching to 352 and 442 in games rather than rigidly sticking to same system.

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Midlands Eagle 29 Sep 21 10.14am
Originally posted by eric youngs headband Im not aware that we lost? thought it was a draw.... We lost two points
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Midlands Eagle

29 Sep 21 10.14am

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Originally posted by eric youngs headband

Im not aware that we lost? thought it was a draw....

We lost two points

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eric youngs headband amersham 29 Sep 21 10.40am
Originally posted by beak I hope you are aware that it felt like a loss. Maybe to some, we got what we deserved in the end. Only one goal to show for all the pretty football, a point in a derby, learnings for Vieira and move on.. 4 playoff finals, Claridge, Hopkin, Shipperley, Phillips.... Life's never dull!
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eric youngs headband

amersham 29 Sep 21 10.40am

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Originally posted by beak

I hope you are aware that it felt like a loss.

Maybe to some, we got what we deserved in the end. Only one goal to show for all the pretty football, a point in a derby, learnings for Vieira and move on..

4 playoff finals, Claridge, Hopkin, Shipperley, Phillips....

Life's never dull!

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MrRobbo Chaldon 29 Sep 21 11.43am
Originally posted by palace99 FFS this is a discussion board, why do some people get so defensive. I'm happy if you disagree, just state your opinion and go. For the record we have won 1 game all season and are struggling to score so 'doing well' is clearly subjective. As you've asked what changes i would make, here are my observations. 1. Kouyate and Macca can't play in the same midfield - both work hard but neither is a great passer. So pick 1. He kept them in the same team until Monday's game. Luka has been slowly coming back to fitness but we also have Hughes who has not kicked a ball yet. Luka after a fine cameo against Spurs didn't feature at all against Liverpool - Jairo was brought on and we all know what happened thereafter, so your transitioning comment is a tad strange. 2. I would have put Olise on with 10 to go on Monday and changed to 442. We were getting overrun at 433 so simply changing personnel would have little impact - and it didn't 3. If we continue playing 433 start switching the Zaha and who ever is on the right. We are too predictable ATM 4. During games also consider switching to 352 and 442 in games rather than rigidly sticking to same system. Wasn’t defensive, it was the start of a discussion. PV made 2 changes to the starting 11 and so I was genuinely interested in what other changes you wanted? I’d agree on CK and Macca, as with Luka and JR for pace reasons. I’m surprised we haven’t seen Hughes yet, but Macca is playing well, and we suspected he was a Macca stand in vs a starting CM when we bought him. Personally, I’d disagree on Olise. I am desperate to see him and desperate for him to do well, but in a game of that magnitude, where he might have to do a lot of defending for the final 10 I think it would have been a bit of a risk. But hey, he literally couldn’t have done any worse than Benteke. I’d be in favour of Wilf being more fluid, like when him and Bolasie used to do it, but he’s not done that in years, so can’t imagine him starting again now. Yeah, the subs were predictable, in my book that was a good thing. Bring 2 big men on to counter their height for the last 15, and Jeff is an experienced premiership player. The fact that you would have put Macca on the wing and Olise upfront absolutely baffles me. But hey everyone’s opinion is valid. And formations are fluid. The first half looked very different positionally to the last 10 mins. CK was practically playing as a CB and both wingers were pegged back, so we were effectively playing a 541 at the end. Well 450 because of how little effort Benteke put in.
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 29 Sep 21 11.43am

Originally posted by palace99

FFS this is a discussion board, why do some people get so defensive. I'm happy if you disagree, just state your opinion and go.

For the record we have won 1 game all season and are struggling to score so 'doing well' is clearly subjective.

As you've asked what changes i would make, here are my observations.

2. I would have put Olise on with 10 to go on Monday and changed to 442. We were getting overrun at 433 so simply changing personnel would have little impact - and it didn't

3. If we continue playing 433 start switching the Zaha and who ever is on the right. We are too predictable ATM

4. During games also consider switching to 352 and 442 in games rather than rigidly sticking to same system.

Wasn’t defensive, it was the start of a discussion. PV made 2 changes to the starting 11 and so I was genuinely interested in what other changes you wanted?

I’d agree on CK and Macca, as with Luka and JR for pace reasons. I’m surprised we haven’t seen Hughes yet, but Macca is playing well, and we suspected he was a Macca stand in vs a starting CM when we bought him.

Personally, I’d disagree on Olise. I am desperate to see him and desperate for him to do well, but in a game of that magnitude, where he might have to do a lot of defending for the final 10 I think it would have been a bit of a risk. But hey, he literally couldn’t have done any worse than Benteke.

I’d be in favour of Wilf being more fluid, like when him and Bolasie used to do it, but he’s not done that in years, so can’t imagine him starting again now.

Yeah, the subs were predictable, in my book that was a good thing. Bring 2 big men on to counter their height for the last 15, and Jeff is an experienced premiership player. The fact that you would have put Macca on the wing and Olise upfront absolutely baffles me. But hey everyone’s opinion is valid.

And formations are fluid. The first half looked very different positionally to the last 10 mins. CK was practically playing as a CB and both wingers were pegged back, so we were effectively playing a 541 at the end. Well 450 because of how little effort Benteke put in.

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PatrickA London 29 Sep 21 12.05pm
At the time I was happy with the substitutions and understood the logic, particularly with Brighton playing more directly and using their physical presence. In hindsight the substitutions didn't help, but that's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. An argument could me made that Ayew rather than Benteke would be a better option as a sub in a similar scenario i.e when we're holding a lead in the last 15 minutes. At least he will chase down defenders and run about a bit, which Benteke either won't or can't do. I'm unconvinced that Benteke will suit Vieira's style in any event. Has he even looked like scoring in any game where he's featured under Vieira so far?
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PatrickA

London 29 Sep 21 12.05pm

At the time I was happy with the substitutions and understood the logic, particularly with Brighton playing more directly and using their physical presence.
In hindsight the substitutions didn't help, but that's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight.
An argument could me made that Ayew rather than Benteke would be a better option as a sub in a similar scenario i.e when we're holding a lead in the last 15 minutes.
At least he will chase down defenders and run about a bit, which Benteke either won't or can't do.
I'm unconvinced that Benteke will suit Vieira's style in any event.
Has he even looked like scoring in any game where he's featured under Vieira so far?

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slubglurge welling 29 Sep 21 2.44pm
I actually think we should spend the entire next seasons budget on him. He's that good
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slubglurge

welling 29 Sep 21 2.44pm

I actually think we should spend the entire next seasons budget on him. He's that good

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doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 29 Sep 21 3.48pm
Originally posted by taylors lovechild Whatever your view on Bentenke surely it must have been frustrating for everyone having seen our forwards force mistakes all game by closing down their defenders to see him trot on and make a half-hearted effort at closing the defenders down. I mean, he was at the game, so he could see that tactic was ruffling their feathers. Is it a fitness issue? A lack of willingness? Whatever it is I personally found it disappointing that he didn't put himself about. And his laziness was apparent within 30 seconds of him coming on. PV was doing his nut trying to get Benteke to get stuck in.
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doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 29 Sep 21 3.48pm

Originally posted by taylors lovechild

Whatever your view on Bentenke surely it must have been frustrating for everyone having seen our forwards force mistakes all game by closing down their defenders to see him trot on and make a half-hearted effort at closing the defenders down. I mean, he was at the game, so he could see that tactic was ruffling their feathers. Is it a fitness issue? A lack of willingness? Whatever it is I personally found it disappointing that he didn't put himself about.

And his laziness was apparent within 30 seconds of him coming on. PV was doing his nut trying to get Benteke to get stuck in.

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Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 29 Sep 21 4.27pm
Lets hope that PV learns fast, that what you do on the training pitch and in the real game is completely different. “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn
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Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 29 Sep 21 4.27pm

Lets hope that PV learns fast, that what you do on the training pitch and in the real game is completely different.

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

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ChicagoPalace 29 Sep 21 4.44pm
There really is not much excuse for Ayew's off target attempt. That's a shot he has to convert. That said, when it comes to holding a lead, and assuming both Benteke and Ayew are on the bench, I'd much rather Ayew come in for Edouard than Benteke. Ayew's work rate is much higher, and he is much better at holding/maintaining possession and drawing fouls than Benteke. It's a role he fit most capably two seasons ago.
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ChicagoPalace

29 Sep 21 4.44pm

There really is not much excuse for Ayew's off target attempt. That's a shot he has to convert. That said, when it comes to holding a lead, and assuming both Benteke and Ayew are on the bench, I'd much rather Ayew come in for Edouard than Benteke. Ayew's work rate is much higher, and he is much better at holding/maintaining possession and drawing fouls than Benteke. It's a role he fit most capably two seasons ago.

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southnorwoodhill 29 Sep 21 5.22pm
Regarding Benteke, he's a mediocre footballer, and to top it off, he's a lazy cnut as well. I have no doubt that PV has realised that Benteke won't fit into the high press scheme of things, and as currently we don't seem to be playing for crosses that much I wonder where that leaves Benteke...
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southnorwoodhill

29 Sep 21 5.22pm

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Regarding Benteke, he's a mediocre footballer, and to top it off, he's a lazy cnut as well. I have no doubt that PV has realised that Benteke won't fit into the high press scheme of things, and as currently we don't seem to be playing for crosses that much I wonder where that leaves Benteke...

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kingdowieonthewall Sussex, ex-Cronx. 29 Sep 21 8.03pm
Originally posted by slubglurge I actually think we should spend the entire next seasons budget on him. He's that good yup. agree with that. be too late soon. Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents? Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.
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kingdowieonthewall

Sussex, ex-Cronx. 29 Sep 21 8.03pm

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Originally posted by slubglurge

I actually think we should spend the entire next seasons budget on him. He's that good

yup.
agree with that.
be too late soon.

Kids,tired of being bothered by your pesky parents?
Then leave home, get a job & pay your own bills, while you still know everything.

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MrRobbo Chaldon 29 Sep 21 9.03pm
Originally posted by doombear And his laziness was apparent within 30 seconds of him coming on. PV was doing his nut trying to get Benteke to get stuck in. That's good to know. PV will either get him to work, or just wont trust him
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MrRobbo

Chaldon 29 Sep 21 9.03pm

Originally posted by doombear

And his laziness was apparent within 30 seconds of him coming on. PV was doing his nut trying to get Benteke to get stuck in.

That's good to know. PV will either get him to work, or just wont trust him

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