Croydon Stabbings

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Croydon Stabbings

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Matov 06 Feb 21 4.53pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle There is the Violence Reduction Unit. [Link] And clearly s*** at its job. All the usual BS. The Glasgow method worked in large part because it created a genuine fear around people leaving their homes with knives due to the profiling approach and the random stop and search based on that. My understanding is that this does not happen in London. But again, more than happy to be educated. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Feb 21 4.53pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

There is the Violence Reduction Unit.

[Link]

And clearly s*** at its job. All the usual BS. The Glasgow method worked in large part because it created a genuine fear around people leaving their homes with knives due to the profiling approach and the random stop and search based on that. My understanding is that this does not happen in London. But again, more than happy to be educated.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Matov 06 Feb 21 4.58pm
Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot And who is it that's not doing there job and being racist exactly? Whoever puts the kibosh on the Glasgow model being adopted in London. As you said yourself, the political considerations are behind that. Essentially because of the optics of more black boys being stopped for no other reason than the fact they have been profiled as being high risk, the decision has been made to ignore that part. It is based solely on the colour of the skin. Real, classical, racism. People in positions of high-office in a variety of public agencies would rather black kids get murdered than damage their own chances of promotion and/or election. Again, pure and quite literal murderous racism. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Feb 21 4.58pm

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

And who is it that's not doing there job and being racist exactly?

Whoever puts the kibosh on the Glasgow model being adopted in London. As you said yourself, the political considerations are behind that. Essentially because of the optics of more black boys being stopped for no other reason than the fact they have been profiled as being high risk, the decision has been made to ignore that part.

It is based solely on the colour of the skin. Real, classical, racism.

People in positions of high-office in a variety of public agencies would rather black kids get murdered than damage their own chances of promotion and/or election. Again, pure and quite literal murderous racism.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 06 Feb 21 5.11pm
Originally posted by Matov Whoever puts the kibosh on the Glasgow model being adopted in London. As you said yourself, the political considerations are behind that. Essentially because of the optics of more black boys being stopped for no other reason than the fact they have been profiled as being high risk, the decision has been made to ignore that part. It is based solely on the colour of the skin. Real, classical, racism. People in positions of high-office in a variety of public agencies would rather black kids get murdered than damage their own chances of promotion and/or election. Again, pure and quite literal murderous racism. Well there are other reasons as to why they get stopped... And the main one is if someone arouses suspicion or fits the description of a suspect from a nearby crime then they will get stopped and searched. I spent 18 years policing the streets. I find it laughable and actually insulting that some people actually believe that Coppers get in the car, drive out the nick and say 'right let's go stop black people ' It's ludicrous and sensationalist thinking. I policed Croydon. Off the top of my head I think South Norwood at one stage was around 72% ethnic minority. Therefore it makes sense that more people of colour will be stopped. Whereas if I drove to the other end of the Borough to Old Coulsdon then far more white kids will be stopped. Honestly people read far to much into this and create a problem that isn't really a problem.. This isnt Life on Mars. It's not 1973. Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 06 Feb 21 5.11pm

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Originally posted by Matov

It is based solely on the colour of the skin. Real, classical, racism.

Well there are other reasons as to why they get stopped... And the main one is if someone arouses suspicion or fits the description of a suspect from a nearby crime then they will get stopped and searched.

I spent 18 years policing the streets. I find it laughable and actually insulting that some people actually believe that Coppers get in the car, drive out the nick and say 'right let's go stop black people ' It's ludicrous and sensationalist thinking.

I policed Croydon. Off the top of my head I think South Norwood at one stage was around 72% ethnic minority. Therefore it makes sense that more people of colour will be stopped.
Whereas if I drove to the other end of the Borough to Old Coulsdon then far more white kids will be stopped.

Honestly people read far to much into this and create a problem that isn't really a problem.. This isnt Life on Mars. It's not 1973.

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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Matov 06 Feb 21 5.15pm
Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot Well there are other reasons as to why they get stopped... And the main one is if someone arouses suspicion or fits the description of a suspect from a nearby crime then they will get stopped and searched. I am sure there are all kinds of reasons but with regards to this Glasgow model, it involves targetted and pretty constant stop and search based on profiling of offending risk. This is not about the cops on the streets. This goes way up the ladder. This is about a conscious decision being taken, solely on skin colour, not to take an action that has been proven to cut the numbers of murders. You better than most must know how 'political' promotions above a certain rank get with anybody trying to climb much higher than Inspector needing to be fully in line with the current political zeitgeist of the day. Ditto in social services and so on. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Feb 21 5.15pm

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

I am sure there are all kinds of reasons but with regards to this Glasgow model, it involves targetted and pretty constant stop and search based on profiling of offending risk.

This is not about the cops on the streets. This goes way up the ladder. This is about a conscious decision being taken, solely on skin colour, not to take an action that has been proven to cut the numbers of murders. You better than most must know how 'political' promotions above a certain rank get with anybody trying to climb much higher than Inspector needing to be fully in line with the current political zeitgeist of the day. Ditto in social services and so on.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 06 Feb 21 5.28pm
Originally posted by Matov I am sure there are all kinds of reasons but with regards to this Glasgow model, it involves targetted and pretty constant stop and search based on profiling of offending risk. This is not about the cops on the streets. This goes way up the ladder. This is about a conscious decision being taken, solely on skin colour, not to take an action that has been proven to cut the numbers of murders. You better than most must know how 'political' promotions above a certain rank get with anybody trying to climb much higher than Inspector needing to be fully in line with the current political zeitgeist of the day. Ditto in social services and so on. Oh absolutely... I would of loved to of had a go at my Sergeants and Inspector... Sadly the promotion policy is seriously flawed. It's very little to do with actually being a supervisor or a leader and all to do with 'Can you evidence where you have dealt with racism, homophobia etc etc... You are even actively encouraged to provide evidence of basically doing one of your own colleagues over whether that be reporting them, going behind there back and that type of thing... No thank you that wasn't for me.. I will happily challenge a colleague behaviour and indeed I did a few times but a word in there ear is sufficient... Actually the inspector rank is the highest you can go and still be hands on Policing and being a proper leader. Anything above that you're basically a politician Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 06 Feb 21 5.28pm

Originally posted by Matov

I am sure there are all kinds of reasons but with regards to this Glasgow model, it involves targetted and pretty constant stop and search based on profiling of offending risk.

Oh absolutely... I would of loved to of had a go at my Sergeants and Inspector... Sadly the promotion policy is seriously flawed. It's very little to do with actually being a supervisor or a leader and all to do with 'Can you evidence where you have dealt with racism, homophobia etc etc... You are even actively encouraged to provide evidence of basically doing one of your own colleagues over whether that be reporting them, going behind there back and that type of thing...

No thank you that wasn't for me.. I will happily challenge a colleague behaviour and indeed I did a few times but a word in there ear is sufficient... Actually the inspector rank is the highest you can go and still be hands on Policing and being a proper leader. Anything above that you're basically a politician

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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Matov 06 Feb 21 5.35pm
Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot Actually the inspector rank is the highest you can go and still be hands on Policing and being a proper leader. Anything above that you're basically a politician Yep. And that is where the problem kicks in. Exactly the same issue was the reason why the grooming scandals up north were allowed to continue. Cops and social workers on the ground reporting what was going on, the senior ranks making conscious decisions to ignore (at best) or actively seek to do the legs of the people bringing the problem to them. A shocking state of affairs and only set to get worse and worse. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

06 Feb 21 5.35pm

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

Actually the inspector rank is the highest you can go and still be hands on Policing and being a proper leader. Anything above that you're basically a politician

Yep. And that is where the problem kicks in. Exactly the same issue was the reason why the grooming scandals up north were allowed to continue. Cops and social workers on the ground reporting what was going on, the senior ranks making conscious decisions to ignore (at best) or actively seek to do the legs of the people bringing the problem to them.

A shocking state of affairs and only set to get worse and worse.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 06 Feb 21 5.44pm
Originally posted by Matov Yep. And that is where the problem kicks in. Exactly the same issue was the reason why the grooming scandals up north were allowed to continue. Cops and social workers on the ground reporting what was going on, the senior ranks making conscious decisions to ignore (at best) or actively seek to do the legs of the people bringing the problem to them. A shocking state of affairs and only set to get worse and worse. That's extremely common in the Police. If you're a street cop and you dont tow the line and maybe bring something up that could paint the Police in a bad light if it got out to the public then they will come after you believe me and make your life and career very uncomfortable... It happens far more often than the public think Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 06 Feb 21 5.44pm

Originally posted by Matov

Yep. And that is where the problem kicks in. Exactly the same issue was the reason why the grooming scandals up north were allowed to continue. Cops and social workers on the ground reporting what was going on, the senior ranks making conscious decisions to ignore (at best) or actively seek to do the legs of the people bringing the problem to them.

A shocking state of affairs and only set to get worse and worse.

That's extremely common in the Police. If you're a street cop and you dont tow the line and maybe bring something up that could paint the Police in a bad light if it got out to the public then they will come after you believe me and make your life and career very uncomfortable... It happens far more often than the public think

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 06 Feb 21 6.00pm
Originally posted by Matov I am sure there are all kinds of reasons but with regards to this Glasgow model, it involves targetted and pretty constant stop and search based on profiling of offending risk. This is not about the cops on the streets. This goes way up the ladder. This is about a conscious decision being taken, solely on skin colour, not to take an action that has been proven to cut the numbers of murders. You better than most must know how 'political' promotions above a certain rank get with anybody trying to climb much higher than Inspector needing to be fully in line with the current political zeitgeist of the day. Ditto in social services and so on. You are not suggesting that Cressinda Dick- in charge of the operation that led to an innocent electrician , running for his train, getting shot 7 times in the mouth, and now head of the yard, on 600k a year, is anything other than the model girl for the top job in the country?I took said electrician , John Charles back to Stockwell station one night, he had worked late and fallen asleep on the bus, missing his stop, walked the way home from the station, lovely chap, meanwhile, at the yard, Cressie gets promoted, I smell bulls***.
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 06 Feb 21 6.00pm

Originally posted by Matov

I am sure there are all kinds of reasons but with regards to this Glasgow model, it involves targetted and pretty constant stop and search based on profiling of offending risk.

You are not suggesting that Cressinda Dick- in charge of the operation that led to an innocent electrician , running for his train, getting shot 7 times in the mouth, and now head of the yard, on 600k a year, is anything other than the model girl for the top job in the country?I took said electrician , John Charles back to Stockwell station one night, he had worked late and fallen asleep on the bus, missing his stop, walked the way home from the station, lovely chap, meanwhile, at the yard, Cressie gets promoted, I smell bulls***.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 06 Feb 21 6.05pm
Originally posted by croydon proud You are not suggesting that Cressinda Dick- in charge of the operation that led to an innocent electrician , running for his train, getting shot 7 times in the mouth, and now head of the yard, on 600k a year, is anything other than the model girl for the top job in the country?I took said electrician , John Charles back to Stockwell station one night, he had worked late and fallen asleep on the bus, missing his stop, walked the way home from the station, lovely chap, meanwhile, at the yard, Cressie gets promoted, I smell bulls*. My god that really was the f* up to end all f*** ups wasnt it!! Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 06 Feb 21 6.05pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

My god that really was the f*** up to end all f*** ups wasnt it!!

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 06 Feb 21 6.42pm
Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot My god that really was the f* up to end all f* ups wasnt it!! Yes, couldn"t believe she got the top job after that, but she was a woman, so maybe a shoe in.
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 06 Feb 21 6.42pm

Originally posted by kennybrowns leftfoot

My god that really was the f*** up to end all f*** ups wasnt it!!

Yes, couldn"t believe she got the top job after that, but she was a woman, so maybe a shoe in.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Reigate 06 Feb 21 6.52pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Yes, couldn"t believe she got the top job after that, but she was a woman, so maybe a shoe in. And I have a sneaky suspicion she may munch rug as well... Personally you will never get another Commissioner who commanded the respect of the rank and file officers like John Stevens did Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!
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kennybrowns leftfoot

Reigate 06 Feb 21 6.52pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Yes, couldn"t believe she got the top job after that, but she was a woman, so maybe a shoe in.

And I have a sneaky suspicion she may munch rug as well...

Personally you will never get another Commissioner who commanded the respect of the rank and file officers like John Stevens did

Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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cryrst The garden of England 06 Feb 21 7.16pm
Originally posted by croydon proud You are not suggesting that Cressinda Dick- in charge of the operation that led to an innocent electrician , running for his train, getting shot 7 times in the mouth, and now head of the yard, on 600k a year, is anything other than the model girl for the top job in the country?I took said electrician , John Charles back to Stockwell station one night, he had worked late and fallen asleep on the bus, missing his stop, walked the way home from the station, lovely chap, meanwhile, at the yard, Cressie gets promoted, I smell bulls***. That's got to be put aside the fact that suicide bombers with ruck sacks had just killed loads of people. This guy jumped a barrier in a tube station and didnt stop when asked whilst wearing a ruck sack. What would you have thought he was up to? Or would you have the bollox to make a call possibly saving many lives? John charles de Menezes death was a sad and very unfortunate death. No worse than any stabbed black kid but of course you cannot blame that on anything but the stabber; although you think priti did it!
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cryrst

The garden of England 06 Feb 21 7.16pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

That's got to be put aside the fact that suicide bombers with ruck sacks had just killed loads of people.
This guy jumped a barrier in a tube station and didnt stop when asked whilst wearing a ruck sack. What would you have thought he was up to?
Or would you have the bollox to make a call possibly saving many lives?
John charles de Menezes death was a sad and very unfortunate death. No worse than any stabbed black kid but of course you cannot blame that on anything but the stabber; although you think priti did it!

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