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Higher % of Black's excluded from schools in croyd
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 serial thriller  The Promised Land 06 Feb 20 3.47pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Something is either true or not. The extent to which science is used as propaganda does not affect that. In the end, the route cause of the behaviour is only important in the sense that it is impossible to fix behavioural problems unless you know the cause. I know where you would like to take this discussion but the question of racial superiority is irrelevant. This is about having a better society for our children to grow up in. If certain demographics are problematic then why should we try to deny the cause whatever that may be? Ok, firstly I would say that I'm not fully qualified to give answers to how to improve rates of exclusion but as someone with at least limited knowledge and experience this is what I'd say. The primary group as I can see who are excluded are those in care or single parent families. There's an uncomfortable truth for you. So resources need to be channelled in to supporting those youngsters emotionally as they are also at much high risk of suffering trauma at an early age. This isn't simply a schooling issue. We as teachers have no impact in their life outside of 6 hours 5 days a week. So we need to preserve youth centres and fund child psychiatry, even if it is non-professionals working as confidential support workers. Here's another uncomfortable truth: we have slashed the budgets of local goverment and mental health support, so we as a society are increasing the risk of young people being excluded and becoming unstable. Schools need to be encouraged to diversify young people's learning. At the minute, the demand for grades in core subjects is leading to a diminishment in creative ones, and those are typically the ones in which excluded and SEND students perform better. From there, we need to ensure that channels in to occupation or further education are de-mystified as it is a minefield at the minute and not enough organisations are taking the risk of employing or training young people who fall out of education.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Feb 20 4.06pm |
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I shall forego my attack on social liberalism in relation to single parent families and input my two pennies here. Personally I view the most useful thing a government can do is create jobs for people.....the old saying, 'the devil makes work for idle hands' has truth to it. Jobs that provide meaning for people and mean they can support themselves and their families, if and once they have them is by far the most effective solution. While I'd agree that care and support is required for vulnerable children.....really, once they are adults employment is by far the best that can be done for them. Not all of them of course as a small percent won't have the IQ or stability to handle everyday life. Still, there is only so much that the taxpayer is willing to throw at a bottomless pit of funding which will never stop asking for more.....and which has hard to measure results and puts out many doubtful and spurious claims. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Feb 2020 4.06pm)
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 Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 20 4.10pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Ok, firstly I would say that I'm not fully qualified to give answers to how to improve rates of exclusion but as someone with at least limited knowledge and experience this is what I'd say. The primary group as I can see who are excluded are those in care or single parent families. There's an uncomfortable truth for you. So resources need to be channelled in to supporting those youngsters emotionally as they are also at much high risk of suffering trauma at an early age. This isn't simply a schooling issue. We as teachers have no impact in their life outside of 6 hours 5 days a week. So we need to preserve youth centres and fund child psychiatry, even if it is non-professionals working as confidential support workers. Here's another uncomfortable truth: we have slashed the budgets of local goverment and mental health support, so we as a society are increasing the risk of young people being excluded and becoming unstable. Schools need to be encouraged to diversify young people's learning. At the minute, the demand for grades in core subjects is leading to a diminishment in creative ones, and those are typically the ones in which excluded and SEND students perform better. From there, we need to ensure that channels in to occupation or further education are de-mystified as it is a minefield at the minute and not enough organisations are taking the risk of employing or training young people who fall out of education. I'm sure that single parent families are a factor and we know that Black men always had a reputation for leaving their unmarried partners if they had children. More people than ever attend university. It is a meritocratic system as far as differing financial advantages allow. I'm afraid that this will only lead to a lowering of standard and incompatibility with employment. That is without even going into the resentment created among the majority. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (06 Feb 2020 4.12pm)
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| dannyboy1978 06 Feb 20 4.18pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
Ok, firstly I would say that I'm not fully qualified to give answers to how to improve rates of exclusion but as someone with at least limited knowledge and experience this is what I'd say. The primary group as I can see who are excluded are those in care or single parent families. There's an uncomfortable truth for you. So resources need to be channelled in to supporting those youngsters emotionally as they are also at much high risk of suffering trauma at an early age. This isn't simply a schooling issue. We as teachers have no impact in their life outside of 6 hours 5 days a week. So we need to preserve youth centres and fund child psychiatry, even if it is non-professionals working as confidential support workers. Here's another uncomfortable truth: we have slashed the budgets of local goverment and mental health support, so we as a society are increasing the risk of young people being excluded and becoming unstable. Schools need to be encouraged to diversify young people's learning. At the minute, the demand for grades in core subjects is leading to a diminishment in creative ones, and those are typically the ones in which excluded and SEND students perform better. From there, we need to ensure that channels in to occupation or further education are de-mystified as it is a minefield at the minute and not enough organisations are taking the risk of employing or training young people who fall out of education. It doesn't really answer the question of why it's mainly black kids? There are plenty of poor white areas in the country that aren't having these issues?
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 06 Feb 20 4.26pm |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
It doesn't really answer the question of why it's mainly black kids? There are plenty of poor white areas in the country that aren't having these issues? The highest exclusion areas in England are in Middlesborough, Barnsley, Redcar and Docaster.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 Feb 20 4.46pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
The highest exclusion areas in England are in Middlesborough, Barnsley, Redcar and Docaster. Although in those areas it’s predominantly white whereas in London it was a black minority and more of a problem with arguably more job opportunities, IF IF IF you put in the long term effort and patience.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Feb 20 5.00pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
The highest exclusion areas in England are in Middlesborough, Barnsley, Redcar and Docaster.
Seriously? You're going to put that up? Sorry mate, I've been a teacher....exclusions are affected by politics and schools that would love to exclude far more.....simply aren't allowed to. So that statistic is....how shall we say....convenient. Lets just say that if schools didn't have rules that they had to follow on this, that get interpreted differently dependent upon that school's intake.....that list would look very different.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Feb 20 5.04pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Although in those areas it’s predominantly white whereas in London it was a black minority and more of a problem with arguably more job opportunities, IF IF IF you put in the long term effort and patience. Rudi, most statistics that come out of schools are manipulated shams. It's like most things.....there is what you are encouraged to believe, and then there is reality. It's true for most institutions. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Feb 2020 5.06pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 06 Feb 20 5.08pm |
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This is like arguing with someone about aliens making the pyramids, but with less evidence and self-critical analysis.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Feb 20 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
This is like arguing with someone about aliens making the pyramids, but with less evidence and self-critical analysis. How ironic. I was a secondary school teacher.....I know how the system works. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Feb 2020 5.11pm)
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| Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 20 5.20pm |
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Originally posted by serial thriller
This is like arguing with someone about aliens making the pyramids, but with less evidence and self-critical analysis. And you are like the man who has an alien mothership land on his lawn from which aliens emerge singing aliens are here again and still thinks it's all a right wing conspiracy.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 Feb 20 5.29pm |
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Ultimately the black communities in London should be looking at the haves near them, like some of us did, and focusing all energy into achieving and lifting themselves out of the have nots. There are some who will keep going when facing knock backs like we all have done but far too many who’ll go with the crowd who drag people down with them. The nice boys who seem to have nice parents on tv camera that get mixed up in gang related drug and violent crime probably are nice away from the crowd. It probably isn’t easy and it’s undoubtedly harder as a black person to achieve than a white person, but it is possible, which is what pisses off so many of us. It’s like choosing the £200-400 a day drug profit over the £300 a week shop assistant money (which they openly admit is the choice and reason) because the focus wasn’t there at school. Easy option or solid goal from long term hard work and perseverance and determination to rise up if you believe you’re no less smarter than someone in the villagey parts of London.
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