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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Nov 18 11.32pm
Originally posted by Mapletree You did remember to add in the Viking DNA for the Normans I suppose. The English are not Anglo Saxon so why do you say that term is reasonable enough. Some of the most English people I know have recent progenitors from overseas. No, I don’t subscribe to your lived here for generations point. In fact it makes me deeply uncomfortable. You'll get over it. What I won't tolerate is being told what I should think about being British by people who have been here for one or two generations. It would help others to see people as British if they didn't try to turn their little part of it into the country where they came from.
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Hrolf The Ganger

26 Nov 18 11.32pm

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Originally posted by Mapletree

You did remember to add in the Viking DNA for the Normans I suppose.

The English are not Anglo Saxon so why do you say that term is reasonable enough.

Some of the most English people I know have recent progenitors from overseas. No, I don’t subscribe to your lived here for generations point. In fact it makes me deeply uncomfortable.

You'll get over it.

What I won't tolerate is being told what I should think about being British by people who have been here for one or two generations.
It would help others to see people as British if they didn't try to turn their little part of it into the country where they came from.

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corkery Cork City 27 Nov 18 12.10am
Originally posted by DanH My grandparents are Irish. Does that mean I’m not English? You can get the EU passport... We'll never die
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corkery

Cork City 27 Nov 18 12.10am

Originally posted by DanH

My grandparents are Irish. Does that mean I’m not English?

You can get the EU passport...

We'll never die

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Stirlingsays 27 Nov 18 4.21am
Originally posted by DanH My grandparents are Irish. Does that mean I’m not English? No...You've read the comments and this is your level of understanding? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Nov 18 4.21am

Originally posted by DanH

My grandparents are Irish. Does that mean I’m not English?

No...You've read the comments and this is your level of understanding?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 27 Nov 18 4.36am
Originally posted by Mapletree You did remember to add in the Viking DNA for the Normans I suppose. I've already told you those genes are not anywhere near as high a percentage in WASPs as Germanic ones....Yet you type that. Look it up....I did. Originally posted by Mapletree The English are not Anglo Saxon so why do you say that term is reasonable enough. Because it's a collective term.....for feck's sake!....haven't you heard of 'anglosphere'? Even the Americans recognise the 'anglo saxon' influence and they haven't had that for two centuries. Just like English is a group term for what makes up the English. Originally posted by Mapletree Some of the most English people I know have recent progenitors from overseas. No, I don’t subscribe to your lived here for generations point. In fact it makes me deeply uncomfortable. Oh be very certain that your attitude does more than that for me. Your attitude is in the majority within a certain demographic in the country and has been screwing this country for decades. My attitude is no different to the attitude of many within countries around the world.....Japan, Poland, Hungary and others. Your attitude sees the English effectively being wiped out and replaced......and people like you will probably just shrug your shoulders....that's for you but no thanks. I'm a nationalist. I'm pro the English being the main culture within England. I believe that all nations have a right to define themselves. I completely reject the internationalist mindset. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 7.52am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Nov 18 4.36am

Originally posted by Mapletree

You did remember to add in the Viking DNA for the Normans I suppose.

I've already told you those genes are not anywhere near as high a percentage in WASPs as Germanic ones....Yet you type that.

Look it up....I did.

Originally posted by Mapletree

The English are not Anglo Saxon so why do you say that term is reasonable enough.

Because it's a collective term.....for feck's sake!....haven't you heard of 'anglosphere'? Even the Americans recognise the 'anglo saxon' influence and they haven't had that for two centuries. Just like English is a group term for what makes up the English.

Originally posted by Mapletree

Some of the most English people I know have recent progenitors from overseas. No, I don’t subscribe to your lived here for generations point. In fact it makes me deeply uncomfortable.

Oh be very certain that your attitude does more than that for me. Your attitude is in the majority within a certain demographic in the country and has been screwing this country for decades. My attitude is no different to the attitude of many within countries around the world.....Japan, Poland, Hungary and others.

Your attitude sees the English effectively being wiped out and replaced......and people like you will probably just shrug your shoulders....that's for you but no thanks.

I'm a nationalist. I'm pro the English being the main culture within England. I believe that all nations have a right to define themselves. I completely reject the internationalist mindset.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 7.52am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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DanH SW2 27 Nov 18 8.04am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays No...You've read the comments and this is your level of understanding? Yep. Any my family haven’t been here centuries, not even one in fact, so can we be considered English in your Blighty utopia? What about my best mate whose dad was born in St Lucia? It’s almost like your logic is deeply flawed.
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DanH

SW2 27 Nov 18 8.04am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

No...You've read the comments and this is your level of understanding?

Yep. Any my family haven’t been here centuries, not even one in fact, so can we be considered English in your Blighty utopia? What about my best mate whose dad was born in St Lucia?

It’s almost like your logic is deeply flawed.

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DanH SW2 27 Nov 18 8.05am
F*cked it. Edited by DanH (27 Nov 2018 8.05am)
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DanH

SW2 27 Nov 18 8.05am

F*cked it.

Edited by DanH (27 Nov 2018 8.05am)

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Stirlingsays 27 Nov 18 8.25am
Originally posted by DanH Yep. Any my family haven’t been here centuries, not even one in fact, so can we be considered English in your Blighty utopia? What about my best mate whose dad was born in St Lucia? It’s almost like your logic is deeply flawed. Ok....I'll explain the obvious to you....I know you're only a bean counter but try and understand. Do you have an allegiance, an attachment to England? Do you have an preference for English culture?....Not a dislike of other cultures and people but just a preference for the one you were brought up in. Do you have an appreciation and regard for most of its history. A love of its language and achievements? Some of its rituals perhaps. Do you see yourself as English?.....Not Irish (even though that would be fine) or some kind of global based culturally mixed rootless mongrel? Right the answer to that determines more than any other aspect whether I regard you as English or not.....If your answer is no....then fine....that doesn't make you a terrible person as such...it just makes you an internationalist. The point I made about generations being important is because without that it's less likely that you have enough 'English' skin in the game to feel that way.....but only less likely. I don't exclude someone coming from elsewhere and being genuine in wanting to be English...Definitely if they are second generation and brought up here...This is usually easier if those countries are culturally similar to this one but regardless.....If someone has a genuine allegiance to English culture....I'd probably regard them as English. Indeed most of us have family from within the British islands, Irish family or European family. This does not disclude someone from being English. The most important aspect is a genuine allegiance and that is much more often than not from how they were brought up. Do you understand now? Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 8.28am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Nov 18 8.25am

Originally posted by DanH

Yep. Any my family haven’t been here centuries, not even one in fact, so can we be considered English in your Blighty utopia? What about my best mate whose dad was born in St Lucia?

It’s almost like your logic is deeply flawed.

Ok....I'll explain the obvious to you....I know you're only a bean counter but try and understand.

Do you have an allegiance, an attachment to England? Do you have an preference for English culture?....Not a dislike of other cultures and people but just a preference for the one you were brought up in. Do you have an appreciation and regard for most of its history. A love of its language and achievements? Some of its rituals perhaps.

Do you see yourself as English?.....Not Irish (even though that would be fine) or some kind of global based culturally mixed rootless mongrel?

Right the answer to that determines more than any other aspect whether I regard you as English or not.....If your answer is no....then fine....that doesn't make you a terrible person as such...it just makes you an internationalist.

The point I made about generations being important is because without that it's less likely that you have enough 'English' skin in the game to feel that way.....but only less likely.

I don't exclude someone coming from elsewhere and being genuine in wanting to be English...Definitely if they are second generation and brought up here...This is usually easier if those countries are culturally similar to this one but regardless.....If someone has a genuine allegiance to English culture....I'd probably regard them as English.

Indeed most of us have family from within the British islands, Irish family or European family. This does not disclude someone from being English. The most important aspect is a genuine allegiance and that is much more often than not from how they were brought up.

Do you understand now?

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 8.28am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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DanH SW2 27 Nov 18 9.15am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Ok....I'll explain the obvious to you....I know you're only a bean counter but try and understand. Do you have an allegiance, an attachment to England? Do you have an preference for English culture?....Not a dislike of other cultures and people but just a preference for the one you were brought up in. Do you have an appreciation and regard for most of its history. A love of its language and achievements? Some of its rituals perhaps. Do you see yourself as English?.....Not Irish (even though that would be fine) or some kind of global based culturally mixed rootless mongrel? Right the answer to that determines more than any other aspect whether I regard you as English or not.....If your answer is no....then fine....that doesn't make you a terrible person as such...it just makes you an internationalist. The point I made about generations being important is because without that it's less likely that you have enough 'English' skin in the game to feel that way.....but only less likely. I don't exclude someone coming from elsewhere and being genuine in wanting to be English...Definitely if they are second generation and brought up here...This is usually easier if those countries are culturally similar to this one but regardless.....If someone has a genuine allegiance to English culture....I'd probably regard them as English. Indeed most of us have family from within the British islands, Irish family or European family. This does not disclude someone from being English. The most important aspect is a genuine allegiance and that is much more often than not from how they were brought up. Do you understand now? Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 8.28am) I think that’s all fair enough, just probably applies to a lot more people living in this country then you probably think.
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DanH

SW2 27 Nov 18 9.15am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Ok....I'll explain the obvious to you....I know you're only a bean counter but try and understand.

Do you see yourself as English?.....Not Irish (even though that would be fine) or some kind of global based culturally mixed rootless mongrel?

The point I made about generations being important is because without that it's less likely that you have enough 'English' skin in the game to feel that way.....but only less likely.

Do you understand now?

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 8.28am)

I think that’s all fair enough, just probably applies to a lot more people living in this country then you probably think.

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Mapletree Croydon 27 Nov 18 9.30am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Ok....I'll explain the obvious to you....I know you're only a bean counter but try and understand. Do you have an allegiance, an attachment to England? Do you have an preference for English culture?....Not a dislike of other cultures and people but just a preference for the one you were brought up in. Do you have an appreciation and regard for most of its history. A love of its language and achievements? Some of its rituals perhaps. Do you see yourself as English?.....Not Irish (even though that would be fine) or some kind of global based culturally mixed rootless mongrel? Right the answer to that determines more than any other aspect whether I regard you as English or not.....If your answer is no....then fine....that doesn't make you a terrible person as such...it just makes you an internationalist. The point I made about generations being important is because without that it's less likely that you have enough 'English' skin in the game to feel that way.....but only less likely. I don't exclude someone coming from elsewhere and being genuine in wanting to be English...Definitely if they are second generation and brought up here...This is usually easier if those countries are culturally similar to this one but regardless.....If someone has a genuine allegiance to English culture....I'd probably regard them as English. Indeed most of us have family from within the British islands, Irish family or European family. This does not disclude someone from being English. The most important aspect is a genuine allegiance and that is much more often than not from how they were brought up. Do you understand now? Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 8.28am) '' The English are those who subscribe to being English and have lived here for generations.'' There seems to be a change in tone here You have completely missed the point about culture. Our culture is more influenced by the Normans, who largely were Viking, than by Anglo Saxons. It seems you struggled with my point. The mix isn't pure, it's a mix of a mix. But the main point is that the culture in England has little influence left from the Anglo Saxons, the main culture drivers from whom moved North and West to get away from the Normans. Following in the footsteps of a similar exodus by the Celts I believe. Presumably the majority didn't move, but the best educated tended to and the culture moved on with the incomers. So in reality our culture was historically dominated by the Normans who were heavily influenced, culturally and genetically, by the Vikings. So why don't you simply say it as it is and state we should all get back to being Scandinavian
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Mapletree

Croydon 27 Nov 18 9.30am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Ok....I'll explain the obvious to you....I know you're only a bean counter but try and understand.

Do you see yourself as English?.....Not Irish (even though that would be fine) or some kind of global based culturally mixed rootless mongrel?

The point I made about generations being important is because without that it's less likely that you have enough 'English' skin in the game to feel that way.....but only less likely.

Do you understand now?

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 8.28am)

'' The English are those who subscribe to being English and have lived here for generations.''

There seems to be a change in tone here

You have completely missed the point about culture. Our culture is more influenced by the Normans, who largely were Viking, than by Anglo Saxons. It seems you struggled with my point. The mix isn't pure, it's a mix of a mix.

But the main point is that the culture in England has little influence left from the Anglo Saxons, the main culture drivers from whom moved North and West to get away from the Normans. Following in the footsteps of a similar exodus by the Celts I believe. Presumably the majority didn't move, but the best educated tended to and the culture moved on with the incomers.

So in reality our culture was historically dominated by the Normans who were heavily influenced, culturally and genetically, by the Vikings. So why don't you simply say it as it is and state we should all get back to being Scandinavian

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Midlands Eagle 27 Nov 18 10.15am
Originally posted by DanH my family haven’t been here centuries, not even one in fact, so can we be considered English in your Blighty utopia? What about my best mate whose dad was born in St Lucia? Norman Tebbit said back in 1990 that you could tell a person's allegiance by the cricket team they supported
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Midlands Eagle

27 Nov 18 10.15am

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Originally posted by DanH

my family haven’t been here centuries, not even one in fact, so can we be considered English in your Blighty utopia? What about my best mate whose dad was born in St Lucia?

Norman Tebbit said back in 1990 that you could tell a person's allegiance by the cricket team they supported

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 Nov 18 10.20am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Norman Tebbit said back in 1990 that you could tell a person's allegiance by the cricket team they supported Still accurate today. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 27 Nov 18 10.20am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Norman Tebbit said back in 1990 that you could tell a person's allegiance by the cricket team they supported

Still accurate today.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Stirlingsays 27 Nov 18 11.38am
Originally posted by Mapletree '' The English are those who subscribe to being English and have lived here for generations.'' There seems to be a change in tone here No there isn't....you just went and ran with your own understanding based upon that one sentence. You needed clarification and I provided it. Originally posted by Mapletree You have completely missed the point about culture. Our culture is more influenced by the Normans, who largely were Viking, than by Anglo Saxons. It seems you struggled with my point. The mix isn't pure, it's a mix of a mix. But the main point is that the culture in England has little influence left from the Anglo Saxons, the main culture drivers from whom moved North and West to get away from the Normans. Following in the footsteps of a similar exodus by the Celts I believe. Presumably the majority didn't move, but the best educated tended to and the culture moved on with the incomers. So in reality our culture was historically dominated by the Normans who were heavily influenced, culturally and genetically, by the Vikings. So why don't you simply say it as it is and state we should all get back to being Scandinavian So what you are saying here.....from what I understand is that the traditional British culture is heavily influenced by Normans. I agree there is influence but it's not as dominant as anglo saxon. Norman culture was restricted mostly to the aristocracy and the landed class because there wasn't an overwhelming influx from Normandy following 1066. That's why the genes on this island are majority anglo saxon and not Norman. The Normans themselves were actually originally Norsemen (or Vikings). Culture itself is influenced by genes....but that's another story and probably a little controversial for you. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 11.45am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 Nov 18 11.38am

Originally posted by Mapletree

'' The English are those who subscribe to being English and have lived here for generations.''

There seems to be a change in tone here

No there isn't....you just went and ran with your own understanding based upon that one sentence. You needed clarification and I provided it.

Originally posted by Mapletree

So what you are saying here.....from what I understand is that the traditional British culture is heavily influenced by Normans.

I agree there is influence but it's not as dominant as anglo saxon. Norman culture was restricted mostly to the aristocracy and the landed class because there wasn't an overwhelming influx from Normandy following 1066.

That's why the genes on this island are majority anglo saxon and not Norman.

The Normans themselves were actually originally Norsemen (or Vikings).

Culture itself is influenced by genes....but that's another story and probably a little controversial for you.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 Nov 2018 11.45am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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