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Just what is working class
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 Stirlingsays  22 Dec 17 8.52pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Ok let's twist that one a bit. If a privately-educated RP-spoken fella from a well to do background, whose relatives and descendants were of the professional class, as are all his friends, but he himself had been employed as a £15,000 a year waiter for the last five years; does that stop him being the ultra middle class lad which his background and environment dictates that he is? I think not. Like I said, there are two components to being working class....the money and the mentality. The guy you mentioned is working class because his past background isn't going to help moving forward......and there are plenty of well spoken poor people.
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Kermit8  Hevon 22 Dec 17 8.55pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Like I said, there are two components to being working class....the money and the mentality. The guy you mentioned is working class because his past background isn't going to help moving forward......and there are plenty of well spoken poor people. He's middle-class but on a low wage. It is possible. Even if he were on the dole he would still be middle-class. Edited by Kermit8 (22 Dec 2017 8.56pm)
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 17 8.56pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
I disagree. Unregulated capitalism is true capitalism in every sense, ie if you're good at what you do the public will keep you/your business alive. If not, you burn. WTF! What you describe there is meritocracy.....unregulated capitalism is related to it but it isn't the same thing....for example, unregulated capitalism gives you monopolies.....w3hich is the opposite of meritocracy. We had a pretty unregulated capitalism in its early days where we had children working in factories and chimneys.......there are no ethics when the profit motive is unfetted. I believe in capitalism as the best system we have.....but unregulated capitalism is an evil. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Dec 2017 8.59pm)
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 17 8.58pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
He's middle-class but on a low wage. It is possible. Even if he were on the dole he would still be middle-class. Edited by Kermit8 (22 Dec 2017 8.56pm) You can't be middle class and poor, that's a paradox. You are talking about his mentality.....like I said, there are plenty of well spoken, well educated poor people.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 22 Dec 17 9.05pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You can't be middle class and poor, that's a paradox. You are talking about his mentality.....like I said, there are plenty of well spoken, well educated poor people. Totally disagree. And it's not just about mentality but, obviously, environment. Some shelf-stacker Eton kid from a well-to-do background will never be working class.
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| johnfirewall 22 Dec 17 9.09pm |
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Never before has there been such aspiration to be working class. I think it speaks volumes that so many are out of it.
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| .TUX. 22 Dec 17 9.15pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
The human race, you mean? We are not in this all together. Some have progressed/benefited and some have suffered through the modern capitalist system. If you scan the globe you will easily find areas that have been aggressively destroyed in the pursuit of profit and the locals who have born the brunt. Also, you are contradicting yourself. You hate the banks more than anyone but they are the finest example of what you have just promoted. Edited by Kermit8 (22 Dec 2017 8.53pm) We all should (!) and they are far far from anything that i ''promote''. The 'system' has moved us into a 'banking system' that when it fails.............we 'rescue'. Not your best effort tbh bud.
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| .TUX. 22 Dec 17 9.39pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What you describe there is meritocracy.....unregulated capitalism is related to it but it isn't the same thing....for example, unregulated capitalism gives you monopolies.....w3hich is the opposite of meritocracy. We had a pretty unregulated capitalism in its early days where we had children working in factories and chimneys.......there are no ethics when the profit motive is unfetted.
Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Dec 2017 8.59pm) We've rightly moved on from children going up chimneys etc etc but there really is no change to where we have 'progressed' to at this moment in time. Capitalism does not exist. 'Do as we tell you' does.
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| .TUX. 22 Dec 17 9.40pm |
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Originally posted by johnfirewall
Never before has there been such aspiration to be working class. I think it speaks volumes that so many are out of it. This.
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| Stirlingsays 22 Dec 17 10.58pm |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
We've rightly moved on from children going up chimneys etc etc but there really is no change to where we have 'progressed' to at this moment in time. Capitalism does not exist. 'Do as we tell you' does.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Dec 17 11.12am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
As said, there is working class by wage and working class by mentality. He has the mentality but he isn't working class....he doens't have to deal with any of the problems of working people...over and above a certain amount of money you just can't be working class....even if that's where you came from.....but he has the mentality because he was raised working class. Technically its your job and the status of your job that defines your class. Some jobs, though not particularly well paid, traditionally ranked as middle and even lower upper class (civil servant and teachers). Of course you could be kind of poor and a member of the aristocratic classes as well. These days, its all about disposable income. If you're capable of spending, you're empowered in society.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 23 Dec 17 11.14am |
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Originally posted by .TUX.
We've rightly moved on from children going up chimneys etc etc but there really is no change to where we have 'progressed' to at this moment in time. Capitalism does not exist. 'Do as we tell you' does.
The children 'up chimneys' metaphorically still exist, its just they're based in third world countries and work in sweatshops. Much like the Upper and Middle classes wouldn't have tolerated their kids 'up chimneys' but the distance from the working classes made it acceptable; now that kind of labour is exported out of sight, and out of mind.
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