Centenary of Russian Revolution

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Centenary of Russian Revolution

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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Nov 17 12.04pm
The only conclusion to draw from the political history of the 20th century is that European war was disastrous for the people. It caused poverty, desperation and an environment where certain individuals manipulated the circumstances to maintain or seize power for themselves and their single minded, blinkered ideas. Had Europe been ruled by men of intellect and not brainless royals and WW1 avoided. there would have been no Hitler and no Lenin, the power hungry loon who rejected the democracy he helped earn.
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Hrolf The Ganger

10 Nov 17 12.04pm

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The only conclusion to draw from the political history of the 20th century is that European war was disastrous for the people. It caused poverty, desperation and an environment where certain individuals manipulated the circumstances to maintain or seize power for themselves and their single minded, blinkered ideas.

Had Europe been ruled by men of intellect and not brainless royals and WW1 avoided. there would have been no Hitler and no Lenin, the power hungry loon who rejected the democracy he helped earn.

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Stirlingsays 10 Nov 17 12.10pm
If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, perhaps there is a dimension where none of that sh1t happened. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Nov 17 12.10pm

If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, perhaps there is a dimension where none of that sh1t happened.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Nov 17 12.15pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, perhaps there is a dimension where none of that sh1t happened. It'd be an interesting scenario. I'm a big fan of The Man in the High Castle, but sci-fi rarely even touches on the 'what if's' that might have turned out better. That said, without the threat of communism, a lot of the employment rights and educational benefits we enjoy may not have come about - The Liberals were very keen on seeing these as a means of staving off the appeal of communism. More worrying maybe, is without the rise of Communism in Russia serving as the warning, we might well have seen the same kind of situation elsewhere in Europe - A lot of Marx and Engles was focused on the UK. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Nov 17 12.15pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, perhaps there is a dimension where none of that sh1t happened.

It'd be an interesting scenario. I'm a big fan of The Man in the High Castle, but sci-fi rarely even touches on the 'what if's' that might have turned out better.

That said, without the threat of communism, a lot of the employment rights and educational benefits we enjoy may not have come about - The Liberals were very keen on seeing these as a means of staving off the appeal of communism.

More worrying maybe, is without the rise of Communism in Russia serving as the warning, we might well have seen the same kind of situation elsewhere in Europe - A lot of Marx and Engles was focused on the UK.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 10 Nov 17 12.19pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, perhaps there is a dimension where none of that sh1t happened. There would be a dimension for all and every eventuality. That would be a lot of alternates which would continue to increase. I think we see through a pin hole.
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Hrolf The Ganger

10 Nov 17 12.19pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

If the Copenhagen interpretation is true, perhaps there is a dimension where none of that sh1t happened.

There would be a dimension for all and every eventuality.

That would be a lot of alternates which would continue to increase.

I think we see through a pin hole.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Nov 17 12.20pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger The only conclusion to draw from the political history of the 20th century is that European war was disastrous for the people. It caused poverty, desperation and an environment where certain individuals manipulated the circumstances to maintain or seize power for themselves and their single minded, blinkered ideas. Had Europe been ruled by men of intellect and not brainless royals and WW1 avoided. there would have been no Hitler and no Lenin, the power hungry loon who rejected the democracy he helped earn. I think WWI was always coming - the age of empires was dying out, new powers arising, and it created a powder keg of tensions and politics, that effectively were ignited by one guy being shot! I think you can change some of the patterns and some of the factors, but at some point it was clear that there was always going to be another war - akin to the Napoleonic conflicts. The difference is between then, and 1914, the advance in technology and industry of war was incredible. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Nov 17 12.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Had Europe been ruled by men of intellect and not brainless royals and WW1 avoided. there would have been no Hitler and no Lenin, the power hungry loon who rejected the democracy he helped earn.

I think WWI was always coming - the age of empires was dying out, new powers arising, and it created a powder keg of tensions and politics, that effectively were ignited by one guy being shot!

I think you can change some of the patterns and some of the factors, but at some point it was clear that there was always going to be another war - akin to the Napoleonic conflicts.

The difference is between then, and 1914, the advance in technology and industry of war was incredible.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 10 Nov 17 12.22pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger There would be a dimension for all and every eventuality. That would be a lot of alternates which would continue to increase. I think we see through a pin hole. I like the idea, but it seems rather unlikely, that there is an entire thread of alternative universes based on when I had a w*, or made a cup of tea at a different time. Because that's a lot of alternative dimensions just based on when I have a w* or not. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 10 Nov 17 12.22pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There would be a dimension for all and every eventuality.

That would be a lot of alternates which would continue to increase.

I think we see through a pin hole.

I like the idea, but it seems rather unlikely, that there is an entire thread of alternative universes based on when I had a w***, or made a cup of tea at a different time.

Because that's a lot of alternative dimensions just based on when I have a w*** or not.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Stirlingsays 10 Nov 17 12.23pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 It'd be an interesting scenario. I'm a big fan of The Man in the High Castle, but sci-fi rarely even touches on the 'what if's' that might have turned out better. That said, without the threat of communism, a lot of the employment rights and educational benefits we enjoy may not have come about - The Liberals were very keen on seeing these as a means of staving off the appeal of communism. More worrying maybe, is without the rise of Communism in Russia serving as the warning, we might well have seen the same kind of situation elsewhere in Europe - A lot of Marx and Engles was focused on the UK. It is very interesting. Marxism was on the rise....trade unionism was an obvious conduit. I think if no Russia then it was going to break through somewhere.....it needed the temporary breaking down of resisting systems to finally break through though and gain a power base....So Russia and Germany at the end of WW1 were easier candidates. Without the war....I've no idea....It's an interesting canvas for speculation. I'll sneak a peep at this 'man in the high castle'. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Nov 2017 12.25pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Nov 17 12.23pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

It'd be an interesting scenario. I'm a big fan of The Man in the High Castle, but sci-fi rarely even touches on the 'what if's' that might have turned out better.

It is very interesting. Marxism was on the rise....trade unionism was an obvious conduit. I think if no Russia then it was going to break through somewhere.....it needed the temporary breaking down of resisting systems to finally break through though and gain a power base....So Russia and Germany at the end of WW1 were easier candidates.

Without the war....I've no idea....It's an interesting canvas for speculation. I'll sneak a peep at this 'man in the high castle'.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Nov 2017 12.25pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Kermit8 Hevon 10 Nov 17 12.31pm
Amazing how some of these same countries have been absolutely militarily conflict free with each other since the fifties. Must be something to do with common and mutually beneficial policies being enabled. Ah, well... Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 10 Nov 17 12.31pm

Amazing how some of these same countries have been absolutely militarily conflict free with each other since the fifties. Must be something to do with common and mutually beneficial policies being enabled.

Ah, well...

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Stirlingsays 10 Nov 17 12.32pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger There would be a dimension for all and every eventuality. That would be a lot of alternates which would continue to increase. I think we see through a pin hole. It's for the next genius to teach us. I've always had a problem believing the Copenhagen interpretation but it's the current most popular theory amongst physicists when I last looked....if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe it's some variation of supersymmetry......I like super symmetry....all the best looking girls have it. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Nov 2017 12.38pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Nov 17 12.32pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

There would be a dimension for all and every eventuality.

That would be a lot of alternates which would continue to increase.

I think we see through a pin hole.

It's for the next genius to teach us.

I've always had a problem believing the Copenhagen interpretation but it's the current most popular theory amongst physicists when I last looked....if I'm remembering correctly.

Maybe it's some variation of supersymmetry......I like super symmetry....all the best looking girls have it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Nov 2017 12.38pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 10 Nov 17 12.37pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Amazing how some of these same countries have been absolutely militarily conflict free with each other since the fifties. Must be something to do with common and mutually beneficial policies being enabled. Ah, well... Well...Nato. Interdependence is already there....the argument is about what form of European project is undertaken. Brexit or indeed the EU project failing isn't going to lead to WW3.....The rise of a Hitler or Lenin would require real disasters to befall a country for quite a while. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Nov 17 12.37pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Ah, well...

Well...Nato.

Interdependence is already there....the argument is about what form of European project is undertaken.

Brexit or indeed the EU project failing isn't going to lead to WW3.....The rise of a Hitler or Lenin would require real disasters to befall a country for quite a while.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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hedgehog50 Croydon 10 Nov 17 12.39pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 So...Tristan De Cunha. Interesting. For those that believe the equality/socialist type model can't work: "The island's unique social and economic organisation has evolved over the years, but is based on the principles set out by William Glass in 1817, when he established a settlement based on equality. All Tristan families are farmers, owning their own stock and/or fishing. All land is communally owned. All households have plots of land at The Patches on which they grow potatoes. Livestock numbers are strictly controlled to conserve pasture and to prevent better-off families from accumulating wealth. " Been like this for 200 years now. What has Tristan De Cunha in 1817 got to do with the centenary of the Russian Revolution? Does it mean old Joe wasn't so bad after all? Edited by hedgehog50 (10 Nov 2017 12.45pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 10 Nov 17 12.39pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

So...Tristan De Cunha. Interesting.

For those that believe the equality/socialist type model can't work:

"The island's unique social and economic organisation has evolved over the years, but is based on the principles set out by William Glass in 1817, when he established a settlement based on equality. All Tristan families are farmers, owning their own stock and/or fishing. All land is communally owned. All households have plots of land at The Patches on which they grow potatoes. Livestock numbers are strictly controlled to conserve pasture and to prevent better-off families from accumulating wealth. "

Been like this for 200 years now.

What has Tristan De Cunha in 1817 got to do with the centenary of the Russian Revolution? Does it mean old Joe wasn't so bad after all?

Edited by hedgehog50 (10 Nov 2017 12.45pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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hedgehog50 Croydon 10 Nov 17 12.42pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Is that true? The wannabe revolutionaries were planning/conspiring way before WW1 in various locations around Europe in exile. Hard to believe but if you strolled into a Whitechapel building around 1904-ish you could have shaken hands with Josef, Vladimir and Leon before going about your eviscerating business with the local ladies of the night. We were just as stupid back then allowing such people in country. Same with letting the parasitical Marx squat in London preaching mayhem. Then we did the same with mass murder Ho Chi Minh. We never learn. Jack the Ripper was 1880s. (My ancestors lived in Hanbury Street, Whitechapel for a while, where one of the Ripper victims was found. But they had left by the 1880s for the golden pastures of Croydon.) Edited by hedgehog50 (10 Nov 2017 12.55pm) We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
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hedgehog50

Croydon 10 Nov 17 12.42pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Is that true? The wannabe revolutionaries were planning/conspiring way before WW1 in various locations around Europe in exile. Hard to believe but if you strolled into a Whitechapel building around 1904-ish you could have shaken hands with Josef, Vladimir and Leon before going about your eviscerating business with the local ladies of the night.

We were just as stupid back then allowing such people in country. Same with letting the parasitical Marx squat in London preaching mayhem. Then we did the same with mass murder Ho Chi Minh. We never learn.
Jack the Ripper was 1880s. (My ancestors lived in Hanbury Street, Whitechapel for a while, where one of the Ripper victims was found. But they had left by the 1880s for the golden pastures of Croydon.)

Edited by hedgehog50 (10 Nov 2017 12.55pm)

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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